_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
AllenLowe
-
Posts
15,392 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
4 -
Donations
0.00 USD
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Blogs
Posts posted by AllenLowe
-
-
fine, whatever, but the "old lady" knew people involved, and it was true, as confirmed by other sources. Yes, still a fine trumpeter, but truth is truth. Don't blame the messenger.
-
15 minutes ago, JSngry said:
That AI take on Interstellar Space is just silly. It sounds more like a tape being played in reverse than it does a tenor. And there is no architecture. None.
I'll not blame the program, I'll blame the programmers.
agree completely; I have to admit I was somewhat relieved.
-
I wrote a whole book on the blues, inspired by a nasty little argument I had, in person, with Wynton. It's a large and wondrous subject, long on detail, short on insight. I am thinking I will go back and revisit the manuscript now that I can (sorta) see clearly.
-
ah, you're all just jealous because Sonny Clark wouldn't record with you -
yeah, I'm kidding - as I said before I think he's a fine, lyrical pianist but I wish instead they would reissue Twardzik or Elmo Hope, or a bunch of others - maybe weirdly and previously dispersed Bud Powell, the bits and pieces spread all over bootlegs and other sources. I still think Bud is the most illuminating and profound musician who ever decided to play jazz.
Digression, I know. But I am at the age where I need to downsize, and if I bring another jazz box near the house my wife will change the locks.
-
1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said:
I can relate to this a lot.
It isn't just a jazz thing. The "blues feeling" - that pulse and phrasing, or the presence of "soul" - is one of the key things I hope for in music.
That cuts right across a lot of the music that I do listen to most, but not necessarily by genre.
Within jazz, I generally miss it the most. In the Avant Garde world, I sometimes think of music that lacks this feel as being in the lineage of Jimmy Giuffre, thinking in particular of the Stuttgart and Bremen live records on Hat - the sort of exploratory but rather colourless music can be found any given Tuesday evening at Cafe OTO or other similar dedicated avant garde spaces. But my worst is the moody, rhythm-free, academically-minded pianists and/or educators in mainstream jazz (e.g. Mehldau and latter day Iyer in particular).
Outside of jazz, I find that a lot of modern instrumental hip hop lacks soul. There are plenty of po-faced beat tapes, which have rhythms that are every bit as metronomic as the worst of non-African American music. An even worse offender is home-listening electronica music, nearly rhythm free, and designed for intense, and intensely tedious (it seems to me), headphone listening.
Increasingly, I feel a little isolated in my dislike of this kind of music. Clearly, a lot of people who really love music actually do want this sort of serious-mindedness, and see precisely the studious quality that repels me as being appealing.
Where I disagree though is with the idea that the "blues feeling" is determinative.
There are other keys: lyrics (Hank Williams), purity of melody line (Lee Konitz), close harmonies (the Mighty Diamonds) or raw, dumb, sweaty, excitement (Minor Threat or the Stanley Brothers). There are lots of ways to make satisfying music, and a lack of blues feeling, rhythm and phraseology needn't prevent the music from being thrilling. That goes for jazz as much as any kind of music.
this is very good and illuminating - though I will say that a lot of the word play you find in Hank Williams is probably related to black language; and I guess I should reiterate that it is not the blues per se that populates the music I tend to prefer, but a certain basis in black speech and rhythm, really (probably) a pre-blues sense of African American world play. I was helped to come to this conclusion by reading through certain collections of black lyrics like those of Talley and Newman White, Howard Odum and Dorothy Scarborough - much if not most of which pre-dates the blues but which had a great impact on its (the blues') sources. Also, early country music (pre-1935) is filled with an amazing mix of blues, proto-blues and minstrel songs with deep roots in black musical sources.
-
I spent a lot of my “youth” disagreeing with Wynton and with Stanley Crouch about the primacy of the blues in jazz; it seemed almost like an authoritarian dictate, that the music had to sound one way or another. And the more research I did into American music the more the blues seemed to be more effect then cause, meaning it was less a cause of black music and jazz etc then the end result of certain black musical practices, which did indeed have a powerful impact historically and continuously on just about every jazz musician, black and white. To support my beliefs I thought of players like Earl Hines, who was not, formally, a great blues player but whose phrasing was clearly from an African-American musical tradition. My ultimate rationale was that Hines reflected practices which were much older than the blues but were clearly black (and I would suggest that to understand them we need to look at the African American sanctified church, which was going through radical changes at the beginning of the 20th century).
So, not to get too heavily into that argument, I was initially, in my disagreement, inspired by people like Paul Bley, a great improviser whose whole method of phraseology and tonality were clearly “Jazz” but not in the least, I thought, “blue”.
And then some time passed, I got older and started playing a lot more, and became impatient with styles of performance that seemed to me bland and somewhat colorless - until it became clear to me that what I missed in such things was a certain kind of rhythm and cadence which was not only very much rooted in African-American style but also frequently had a Blues - or was it black?- origin to it. Was I just getting older and more conservative?
I also should note that there were/are clearly such musical distinctions between the 60s Avent garde and today’s crop. I think of Ornette of course and also Albert Ayler, Roswell Rudd, the whole ESP crew like Noah Howard, or Marion Brown and Archie Shepp. There is/was clearly to my ears a “blackness” to Shepp’s playing, for one example, missing in much of today’s free jazz sonic world. And I don’t like it I have to admit, I have trouble listening to it for any length of time. Bley was different, possibly because his playing was so rooted in traditional triadic harmony, but even some of his later work set my mind to wandering. I want to hear that post African-American phraseology, the spacial relationship of what many people call, ideologically, blue or blues connotation. So I play that way myself, and tend to be a bit bored with players who don’t, and I tend to hire players who have that same feeling and orientation.
And then I continuously worry that I am far out of touch, just another old guy slinking into the sunset. And so I was wondering about other people here, and how they react to these sounds and trends and what I consider to be a radical dichotomy in Jazz and the typical improviser’s musicianship.
-
7 hours ago, rostasi said:
I think the above statement (Justin V) is way too extreme.
Even tho what Allen says appears a bit like an
”Oh, my kid can do that”-ism, the issue seems
to boil down to: he has preferences for an improv
that’s tethered to a more distinctive musical content
and that appears to him to be lacking in the above examples.
The funny thing is that the “shaped, compositionally-based performance”
that is longed for does actually exist in quite a major way in both of those
Halvorson videos. It just happens to be more amorphous than what Allen likes.And you know what? That’s all right for him to have that opinion.
That track, Hartford, is really quite wonderful to me - especially
the clearer, less hesitant version on their album On and Off.
(Apparently, in the video, that was their first time performing together?)
It kinda takes a John Fahey-like folk structure and gives the
melody a serrated edge to it. To me, it’s refreshingly innovative.Thank you for saying that. Yes it means we can disagree without throwing too much mud on each other. And though I disagree, I understand your position on Mary. This could end up like one of those 1950s arguments about structuralism and formalism, which though important tend to put everyone to sleep, as they would everybody else here. And for the record, I met her once probably 20 years ago and we’ve never discussed any collaboration.
-
I hope it doesn't merge my posts, though I suspect it will; these are from In the Dark. The first is Innuendo in Blue, a composed piece with free solos by me, Ken Peplowski, Aaron Johnson, Lewis Porter and Kellen Hannas. We are building an imaginative construct from an idea of Ellington. Peplowski in particular might surprise you here:
This is our official video; a humorous fusion of stock footage with an astoundingly evocative solo by Aaron Johnson; no other horn player today could have taken this melody and embellished it in such a powerful and imaginative way (both these compositions are mine). Of course the reference is Johnny Hodges, the solo is completely free:
-
4 hours ago, Dub Modal said:
What is the goal of this critique? Is it a plea for players to create a new style, or to revert to older styles of expression and playing? Or for a hybrid of sorts?
I don't have a goal, per se, except to clarify my own position as a saxophonist and composer; and I say immodestly that the work my group has done on our last 2 projects is a reasonable alternative to the prevailing modes of open playing, as a way of integrating composition and a good deal of freedom. I can post some of the things we have done a bit later, but the best compliments I have gotten were that I "had reinvented free jazz;" that my work was "a wakeup call from the avant garde" (Jonathan Lethem) and, according to Anthony Braxton, "Allen Lowe is one of the few musicians doing anything new....Allen Lowe IS the tradition."
I think that what we are doing is important though it is an uphill struggle for recognition.
17 hours ago, rostasi said:I say: be the improv king that you think you should be,
by playing with others in the manner you think it should be done -
pretty much like any other art form.Yes, Matana - and Chapter Five is coming the end of September!
… and Allen, I love you, but you are in no way even remotely playing guitar -
or even interacting with another instrument - anywhere near the way Halvorson does.this is high school level guitar; no better than what I do in those two pieces:
or this; amateurism posing as anti-orthodoxy:
-
6 hours ago, rostasi said:
I say: be the improv king that you think you should be,
by playing with others in the manner you think it should be done -
pretty much like any other art form.Yes, Matana - and Chapter Five is coming the end of September!
… and Allen, I love you, but you are in no way even remotely playing guitar -
or even interacting with another instrument - anywhere near the way Halvorson does.Give me a few hours and I will provide a musical example.
-
I hear a lot of open improvisation as just dull and formulaic gestures- and i define it as improvisation over unplanned tonal centers. It can sound good and coherent but it is no longer interesting to me unless it is part of a shaped, compositionally-based performance, a narrative in the broadest possible sense, one that draws upon ideas that have not only a sense of inevitability but also a coherent relationship to composition. But most of what I hear is taking the easy way out, substituting glib aesthetic philosophy for real imagination. It’s a formalist trap, as though formal rationale, intelligently stated, means the music is the same. It is lazy, like stringing together random sentences and calling it a novel because it shadows, philosophically, the literary form, meets some kind of broader intellectual rationale. It is a failure of imagination, and I see musicians over and over who are like little kids who have discovered a certain kind of freedom without accepting any responsibility for the conceptual implications of producing thd work. I find it, again, irresponsible, an abdication of self.
The particular performance above is my example - though not sticking strictly to my criteria, the guitarist is me; I hadn’t played the instrument in years, all I did was play around with bits of chords, knowing enough about the instrument to imply certain harmonies. And the truth is that I did it as well as a certain McArthur Genius awardee whom I have heard play this way on many occasions. It was easy and simple. Honestly I could do this kind of thing when I was 15 on both guitar and saxophone but I wouldn’t, as I knew it was an artistic shortcut not worthy of the music.
-
17 minutes ago, mjzee said:
I generally agree with this, but I'd extend the criticism to Ornette; never understood the cult adulation of the guy. While listening to free jazz can be liberating, it's really (in my opinion) just a tonic to jazz based on more melodic forms, such as the great American songbook; it doesn't have much value on its own. My sense, too, is that musicians playing free jazz just assume the music is great - they don't take the time to "sell" the music to potential listeners, to explain what they're doing and showcase enjoyable moments.
An example: Someone on this board used to post lists of the best albums of the past year. I decided to try two albums released in 2014: Anna Webber's "Simple" and Steve Lehman's "Mise en Abîme." Neither made much of an impression on me; just sounded like more free jazz, almost like slices of salami off a larger loaf.
A similar critique can be made about most ECM releases. Just my opinion; I know others here disagree.
oh that's fine, to each his own, but I do believe Ornette was a special kind of genius; the melodicism of his solos was something that I can tell you, as the horn player I am, is incredibly inventive; the proof, to me, is that no one has come close to duplicating his style. Another I should have mentioned is Julius Hemphill, who was such a powerful personality that he created his own inimitable frame of of reference. Same, I should add, with Eric Dolphy, as did the others I mentioned in my initial post. But today I just hear too much laziness, too much mannerism. empty improvisational gestures. And today there are players like Aaron Johnson, who is a master at all aspects of improvisation, as well as Ned Ferm, a tenor player living in Denmark.
-
I love his playing, but the comparison they make on the Mosaic site to Bud Powell is just....silly. To me Clark is part of a different side of that style, like Bobby Timmons and Barry Harris. And on the excerpted version of Bebop, also on the Mosaic site. he plays fine but there are clear moments of difficulty; I mean, how old was he? 20 something? It's not a big deal. But Bud Powell he wasn't, especially at that tempo. And anyway his touch/articulation was clearly different. Though I have to say that, in the big picture, I prefer Elmo Hope, Barry, Duke Jordan, Herbie Nichols, Dick Katz. I find that Clark is ripe with possibility, but something is missing, maybe the development was off due to personal stuff, I don't know.
-
I honestly think the style, which was liberating initially, has run its course. Here is a mystery guitarist with me on tenor: who is this guitar player? Though based on a blues, the guitarist is playing in an open style, implying the changes in a "free" style:
featuring me and the same guitarist:
this does not mean that there were not a few great "free" players - I think Ornette and Shepp are good examples; also Roswell Rudd and the Art Ensemble, Roscoe Mitchell, et al; but even Shepp, discussing a period when he was sick and playing poorly, said that "it was free jazz, so no one could tell."
I have found ways, I think, to energize the form, to give it an advanced sense of narrative; but the basic format, with the cult following of the form, has become, I truly believe, something of a scam.
......an easy way to deal with performance and repertoire - lazy, formulaic. It is now a matter of being stuck in the kind of repetition that bored these same musicians with bebop.
-
13 minutes ago, Dmitry said:
My man! I bow to your knowledge!
At 6:40, the cat at the piano has what looks like rubber bands on all of his fingers. Is this some piano players work-out trick? Never seen that before.
that's pianist Noah Berman - he has a muscular condition - I don't remember what it's called - and those are to help his hands somehow.
-
I understand why people like it, but I don't quite agree on the "gospelized" aspect, especially as it represents a very middle class idea of that music - which, once again, is fine, but a little sedate for my tastes. Now if it was gospel of the sanctified church I would feel a bit differently; would love to see the smooth jazzers talking in tongues and rolling in the aisles, going crazy and having religious seizures. THAT would be something to see (or maybe Kenny G dovening and singing cantorial songs).
-
that's Fuzzy, Boots, Whiskers, Spots, and Frisky.
-
he was pretty crazy when I met him, but that was the '70s. He kept growling at me.
I did hear him play with Duke Jordan around 1975. He played everything about a quarter-tone sharp. The lines were fine, but they were in a, well, different key, on another plane.
-
substance issues? IIRC he was still playing well in '63.
-
I love Elmo, but some of his 1960's playing is just not quite up to snuff (as on the Riker's Island session). But compositionally he was always together. I gather that there are no sound samples of this floating around? On the other hand, anything with Sonny Red is worth getting.
-
5 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:
Really sorry to contradict you, but the book DOES have quotes (in fact, it largely consists of quotes, though the layout and the lengthiness of many quotes may make them harder to remember as such - see excerpts below; my copy is the 1955 printing by Peter Davies Ltd., London).
However, I am not sure either how much of the contents still stand up as substantial eyewitness accounts and are not rather lore or anecdotes (time to re-read it, I guess). And I still consider "Swing To Bop" superior because it its more in-depth and focused - which of course is easier to accomplish as it covers a narrower time frame. and I admit I may be biased because both Swing and Bebop are among my main areas of interest in jazz (including the transitional recordings that straddle the stylistic fence).
sorry, I should have been more clear - I know the book and its format well; it was one of the first jazz books I ever read. What I mean is that the sources of those quotes have no citations, no references to where they came from, and I do know (though I apologize as it has been almost 30 years since I read about it) that the Bird quote was discredited to both my satisfaction and that of PBS/Burns. Which makes me distrustful of the other quotes.
-
6 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:
I too have a highly positive view of Ira Gitler's "Jazz Masters of the Forties". As Georghe indicated, Gitler was right in the middle of the jazz scene in New York City in the late 40's, and 50's. He knew most of the musicians, and also was active in recording many of the musicians at Prestige Records.
we should note that Jazz Masters of the '40s was actually, in large part, written by the pianist Dick Katz - who was quoted in it at such great length that I think he should have been given co-writer credit.
-
20 hours ago, Jim Duckworth said:
This one takes the same approach to an earlier era.
I would avoid that book - there are no, IIRC, citations and I know that one of its key quotes - Bird explaining how he came up with the idea of using upper chord intervals - was discredited years ago. I honestly don't remember where this was done, but I was able to convince the Burns people not to use it in the jazz series. After that, I would not trust the book in general.
-
I should probably go back and listen, but I saw this version of Mingus a fair amount in that time and two soloists who I cannot listen to are Ricky Ford (who I don't think is on this) and George Adams. I find Adams to be mannered and annoying, full of bombast with little substance; each solo is basically the same, with some slight harmonic variations. So I will probably avoid this.
Tony Fruscella
in Artists
Posted
did the Shirelle's write it? Did Sinatra write Night and Day? Whoever did it, it was their song.
having been molested as a child, I take this sh*t seriously. We had a well-liked board member who ended up in prison for life for this kind of offense, and it threw us all. I actually knew people from this era of jazz and I believe these charges were truthful.