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Simon Weil
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Posts posted by Simon Weil
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14 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:
I’m not questioning your honesty, but this just isn’t the place for vague third-hand charges against specific individuals.
Can't you see your post put me in a box? Either I replied to it honestly with as much as I could say from my experience or I left you (and others) with what I thought might be a false sense of security.
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1 hour ago, Rooster_Ties said:
I’m absolutely assuming there isn’t, because Wynton seems to me to probably ok enough as far as all that goes
My post was an answer to that. I thought "well, I don't know that it's so absolutely clear - at least not in my mind".
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14 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said:
Nobody is sticking their head in the sand. You wanna talk Wynton and sexism? Fine. You want to coyly accuse ANYONE of abuse or harassment ("might easily be women out there"; "I did have one engagement which suggested")? Not fine.
I was being honest. Strangely.
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My intent has simply been to draw attention to this issue. If people don't want to confront it that's up to them. It seems, to me, akin to sticking your head in the sand when there's a wave coming up the beach.
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16 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:
I’ll just say ‘perhaps’ with a very lowercase ‘p’.
But unless there’s some actual transgressive behavior involving specific other people (bringing actual accusations) that just isn’t publicly known about (and I’m absolutely assuming there isn’t, because Wynton seems to me to probably ok enough as far as all that goes), then this is simply the case of another older, sexist guy — of which there are millions.
At 60, he’s simply part of a generation that was guilty of sexism, and a generation that decreasingly matters as much any more. (I’m only 8 years younger than him, and I feel like people my age matter less and less all the time).
Hard to imagine anyone trying to single out Wynton, unless there are numerous smoking guns — a dozens emails, etc…
It would take a LOT more than simple sexism to be even remotely newsworthy these days.
This is hard for me - It seems to me there might easily be women out there. I did have one engagement which suggested to me that the specific woman might have had an experience along those lines.
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The two articles I had suggested (2001) that the lack of women in his band was down to sexism and (2007) that he had a deep-seated negative view of women that required them to be "offstage".
38 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:Might you provide some context?
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22 minutes ago, mjazzg said:
Thank you for articulating my thoughts on this so concisely. I've been trying to work out to say that this release is less about the studio release than all the press suggests.
21 hours ago, Guy Berger said:I love this framing, it’s exactly right.
Thanks guys.
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I'm a long-term hater of Wynton - and my criticism of him has focused around his treatment of women. I wrote a couple of articles about that 20 and 14 years ago. It has seemed blindingly obvious to me that he's a sexist and gets away with it. That's in the past. What is current is the flow of anti-sexist drive in the wider culture right now. I'm looking at Wynton - and specifically him as a sort of figure-head for Jazz in the wider culture - and going "This is an accident waiting to happen".
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For me, the question was how does this relate to the studio recording - in that that seems to have some sort of perfect settlement of form with content, which I think is defining for a lot of people who listen to it.
For me, so far, the big difference is the tension between the form and the content. It's like wherever Coltrane and his musicians are, the settlement of the studio album doesn't work anymore and they're striving for somewhere beyond.
The sort of "perfect answer" of the studio album isn't there anymore - which I think is going to be a disappointment for a lot of people - but it's still amazing to be there in the club listening to them going beyond.
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4 hours ago, sidewinder said:
Same here. £13.41 with free shipping, incredible deal. Thoroughly looking forward to digesting this set !
Is this a special Brexit deal, at a third of the German price. Or just a pricing balls-up?
I once bought the 6CD Mingus Atlantic set from Amazon.co.uk for a similar price. They had it down as 1 CD. Even though Amazon.co.uk has this as 6CDs, I'm guessing somewhere they have it down as one.
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2 hours ago, JSngry said:2 hours ago, Simon Weil said:
Musicians have privileged access to specific analytic musical skills and da da da...Not that I disagree. But I also think there's a line somewhere where people decide "I'm a musician [Or photographer or whatever] and you're not and therefore you can't understand."
Oh lord, it's the other way around...the things that so many people think that they themselves can't understand....it's frustrating beyond words too many times. It's reverse-snobbery. The assumption that I cannot possibly understand X because it's not my profession, C'mon people...
I think both happen. I'm guessing, but the root of it is people don't want to think outside their box, because then they'd have to look at the whole. If you apply "be true to yourself so as to be true to the world" (reversed), you end with they'd have to look at themselves. Which is why we live on the surface, to avoid that.
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We live in a society where the analytic is privileged above the instinctive. And I see that in the "I'm a musician, I see stuff" approach. Musicians have privileged access to specific analytic musical skills and da da da...Not that I disagree. But I also think there's a line somewhere where people decide "I'm a musician [Or photographer or whatever] and you're not and therefore you can't understand."
My hunch....is people do have the required non-analytic skills, undeveloped, repressed - but we've created a society which desires to live on the surface, so such skills are not deployed. I also think it's been past its sell-by date for a few years.
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I don't know - whether "most people" have that skill set or not. I observe - not in music, but in a general way, that people can pick on things in a highly nuanced way when they care to.
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1 hour ago, JSngry said:
I can tell you this - to this day, "most people" do not know how to listen to ensemble music. They here the cumulative sound but are oblivious to all the specifics going into it. Not that they should, because they don't have to play it, and they really don't have to listen to it at any other level than "this sounds good, I like it!". But if you're saying that any general audience at any given time had a natural ear for contrasting and comparing in any way other than superficially....I remain skeptical
It depends what you mean by "cumulative sound". That is certainly how I listen to the music - and perhaps things - in general . But, on the other hand, and for whatever reason, I can pick up on things down in the mix (both in music and in the wider arena) in a below the surface way.
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I once suggested there's some MLK behind Bitches Brew:
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Maybe..."People in Sorrow"...
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Nowadays "contrafact" is going to be bring up "alternative facts" (and etc.). But...In previous years I've seen it dropped in places and not known what it's meant (being a non-musician there's loads of examples like that) - never particularly bugged me.
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"Reharm" is horrible...I know you don't mean this, but..."harm again"????....Gawwd, please stay away from this.
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51 minutes ago, HutchFan said:
If all artists say the same five things, why are we fascinated -- obsessed even -- by what many of them have to say, either with words or otherwise?
I guess....There's the process of getting to where you can say something (which is how I read JS's comment - as about process) - and there's what you say.
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"Nobody knows anything" are the words by William Goldman which made me "look at the world in [a] new...way".
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It feels like a party political broadcast (or whatever the equivalent is in the States) on behalf of "people like me" [Ted Gioia]. There's something very narrow about his vision, as though he's wearing blinkers. It's dressed up with a potted history of the economics of the music business - but what struck me was how he'd left out the people who'd bought Beatles singles etc..
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I saw Tim Berne and Herb Robertson there - the gig that turned on to Herb.
RIP.
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10 hours ago, JSngry said:
Just saying - it was a window of opportunity for "normal" people to be challenged and not automatically feel threatened.
People's self-confidence is so low nowadays...Yet, under the surface...It's mostly a self-confidence issue (IMHO). -
I was kind of obsessed with Soft Machine 1 for a few years from 19 onward. This is when I was listening to Rock because everyone else of my age was and this was part of that. But there was group improvisation (Rock-Jazz-Psychedelia-Whatever) on there which really got to me. I was probably always going to want to listen to Jazz.
Wynton and women (yet again)
in Artists
Posted · Edited by Simon Weil
It really is something else I'm talking about - I mean it's to do with what gets people to take an interest in specific facts at a specific time. That is, for years, I've thought that when (and I think it's when) the anti-sexist tide hits Jazz, Wynton is a terrible guy to have in place as its figurehead.