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JETman
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So here we are in late ’77, and this famous great quartet with Dexter and Rufus and Eddie Gladden.
Night Ballads : Dexter Gordon Quartet : Dexter Gordon (ts) George Cables (p) Rufus Reid (b) Eddie Gladden (d) Live "The Rising Sun", Montreal, PQ, Canada, November 9, 1977GC: Yeah!
EI: Now what was Eddie Gladden’s story, where was he from?
GC: He was from Newark, and I don’t think he left there a lot, but boy, could he play! I think at first Billy Hart played a gig or something, then Victor Lewis played, but Victor I think was playing with Woody. I don’t know who sent Eddie Gladden, maybe it was Woody because they were both from Newark, but man, when Eddie Gladden came, he lit a fire under that rhythm section, that was it.
Because there were different personalities. Rufus would play up on top sometimes, he’d play all over the bass, you know. And I think everybody had their role, but we all fit somehow. We all got in there and fit. And Eddie was a key guy. But everyone was key in that, everyone filled a role, and did stuff that to me was really amazing. And then Rufus started some stuff, he’d stop playing, it’s a ballad and it becomes solo piano. I decide to play and Rufus stops, and then Eddie stops, and then it’s solo piano. So I said, well I’m just going to play some stuff, so I’d play in, out of time, and then brought the time back in. And Dex was probably like “What the hell are they doing? What the hell’s going on now?”
But Dexter was really good that way, he would really encourage and allow you space to do your thing. So we did that once, and then we did it the next time, and that became a part of the deal. So Dexter was instrumental in doing it, letting me play a little more solo piano. Because I was afraid of playing solo piano in those days, you know. Because as I said, I’m thinking about being a part of the rhythm section, not solo piano. But little by little, I got more joy out of it. Even when I’m playing solo piano at home, I’m thinking about playing with the band, but now I just get a lot of joy out of playing piano, you know, not playing this style, that style, having to play solo piano. Just playing the piano, not missing anybody, I’m just going to play the piano.
EI: Right, beautiful.
GC: That’s the way I think about it, and Dexter had a good part in that.
http://dothemath.typepad.com/dtm/interview-with-george-cables-2.html
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Each of those 5 Warwicks listed above was released in a decent enough sounding version by Fresh Sound. Most importantly, each of those versions is true to its original in terms of content and personnel. FWIW, The Soul of Jazz Percussion was produced by Teddy Charles.
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I'm not saying anything that makes your decision to buy these at the time wrong. No need to get personally insulting.
I would have bought those INA discs had I been around and seen 'em, for sure. And yeah, we all know rekkid business is evil anyway and no one gets properly paid - but no reason to get flat out cynical about it all.
I'm not picking a fight here, it's all about the music and I'm really just expressing my gratitude for what Sue Mingus did and does - that's all there is to it.
And as I pointed out, I too have expressed my gratitude to Sue with my wallet. There is no fail safe here and there is no way to make sure it's done "properly" in each and every situation. Caveat emptor, as they say. A certain onus is on the buyer, for sure. However, my major issue in this argument is the blind labeling of people who have occasionally thought of their own interests as "unusual", "thieves" or even wholly "unappreciative" of the efforts of those in the biz. That is simply not the case in my case. I certainly would have liked to have "paid" the artist here, but at who's expense? With me, it would have meant NOT paying someone else. I have avoided buying too many things OVER and OVER simply because I have always sought to have more music in the collection, plain and simple.
No harm. Carry on.
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Actually J I think there's at least one more in Sue's handbag, the Ronnie Scott thing. I hope that comes out one of these days.
Yup!
And please don't give us that hypocrisy crap again, there's really no need to go there. We all know some business is destroyed by bootleggers, we know some legit business is marred by inability of businesspersons (or mere unwillingness to do something ... how 'bout the Xanadu catalogue please?) ... so here and there, bootleggers step in and we are glad they do, but with someone such as Sue Mingus, I'm happy to re-buy stuff. She did a few good things: Revenge!, the UCLA set, now the glorious Mosaic box ... if the Ronnie's recordings get out as well, I'd love it, obviously! (Although, of course the music's in circulation so I might be a hypocrite if I buy it, but I don't give a flying poop, really.)
This is an incredibly naive point of view, without even taking into account that (a) not many people are made of money AND (b) absolutely nobody here is interested in making others solvent more than they're interested in doing what's best for themselves. First of all, when the INA's were released, nobody was aware that they were bootleg CDs (after all it was early in the CD game, and Tower was selling them like hot cakes at prices which could hardly be termed "cheap"). Secondly, the material was so compelling that nobody in their right minds was thinking "oh wait, maybe Sue will release this stuff one day". Nobody knew she had the material in her possession, and even if a few did, it certainly was not widespread knowledge. Please DO NOT look down your nose at me (UNLESS, of course, you can actually "cast the first stone", as they say) -- I am relatively sure that at that time, and over the years, I have been fairly busy helping to make sure that thousands of artists (including Mingus, many times over) have been fairly (or unfairly, depending on one's point of view) compensated for their work. Not that I should need to explain myself to you, but buying music by the boatload does not exactly allow for making the types of purchases you describe "top priority". I was happy to see Ms. Mingus take a stand. That does NOT mean that I (or anyone, for that matter) was obligated to help fund her business endeavors. FWIW, while I was busy buying up that boatload of music I referred to earlier, I was, as a matter of course and fact, buying every single one of the Mingus Big Band releases AND occasionally, spending time and a few weak American dollars on their live performances. So please, leave the moronic and naive arguments to others. They don't sound especially convincing coming from someone your age who has not parted with as much time, energy, intensity, determination (and dinero) that myself and others here and elsewhere have.
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The Revenge release is the April 17 concert; The "Great Concert..." is the April 19 concert, except it includes Goodbye Eric from April 17. European tour discography here: http://mingus.onttonen.info/1964.html April 17
Salle Wagram, Paris, France Sophisticated Lady 3:20 f So Long Eric* 28:23/28:51 b,d,e Meditations 22:30 a,c,e Orange Was The Color Of Her Dress 11:35 a,e Fables Of Faubus 24:53 a,c,e Parkeriana 24:04/24:12 b,d,e Peggy's Blue Skylight 12:50 a,c,e Notes:
- 'Fables Of Faubus' is edited from the full length of 35:00 (according to Lindenmaier/Salewski)
- The timings for 'So Long Eric' and 'Parkeriana' come from d (they're wrong in liner notes)
- *) During this performance of 'So Long Eric', Johnny Coles collapsed due to a perforated gastric ulcer; he was hospitalized at the American Clinic at Neuilly, France, for the remainder of the Charles Mingus European Tour 1964,
Musidisc 500072 MU 763 and America AM 003-004-005 (3LP) contain an edited version of 'So Long Eric' (see April 19 for more information),
'So Long Eric' is mistitled 'Goodbye Pork Pie Hat' on d and e
b) Le Jazz CD 38
c) France's Concert FCD 102
d) France's Concert FCD 110
e) Revenge 32002
f) France's Concert FC 102 (LP)
April 19Théâtre des Champs-Elysées, Paris, France Sophisticated Lady 5:52/6:12 a,b Fables Of Faubus 27:30/27:47 a,b Parkeriana 23:25/23:35 a,b Meditations 21:47/23:04 a,b* Orange Was The Color Of Her Dress 14:05/16:00 a So Long Eric (edited) 5:40 b I Can't Get Started unissued Notes:
- The concert started 0.10 a.m. and ended 2.45 a.m. (according to Musidisc liner notes) - therefore this is under April 19, not April 18
- *) 'Meditations' lasts 27:30 on America 3LP-set
- 'So Long Eric' (23:21/27:10) on Musidisc (mistitled 'Goodbye Pork Pie Hat'), which features Coles, is actually an edited version from Salle Wagram and it fades in the end of Dolphy's alto sax solo before Richmond's drum solo.
- 'Sophisticated Lady' is a duet featuring Byard and Mingus
- Johnny Coles did not play in this concert, although some of the liner notes claim otherwise
That discog is slightly botched. "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress" is definitely on c.
Bottom line: if you have the 2 late 80s Esoldun/INA releases -- c and d in that discography -- you do not need e. All 3 of c, d and e do incorrectly state the date as 4/18/64.
Except those were bootlegs and the Revenge! release isn't.
Without getting into THAT whole argument, so what? The INA's sound good and they were released 10 years before Revenge! Since they were available, and nobody had access to a crystal ball, it was just another case of "buy it now or lose the chance forever". If someone here has neither, by all means, go for the legit release. However, playing the "although I already have it, I'll buy the legit one anyway" game is often a "fool's game" and reeks of hypocrisy, at that. And if you believe that buying Revenge will encourage Ms. Mingus to release more, that simply isn't going to happen. I've been told that whatever she had left ended up in the Mosaic Jazz Workshop box.
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The Revenge release is the April 17 concert; The "Great Concert..." is the April 19 concert, except it includes Goodbye Eric from April 17. European tour discography here: http://mingus.onttonen.info/1964.html April 17
Salle Wagram, Paris, France Sophisticated Lady 3:20 f So Long Eric* 28:23/28:51 b,d,e Meditations 22:30 a,c,e Orange Was The Color Of Her Dress 11:35 a,e Fables Of Faubus 24:53 a,c,e Parkeriana 24:04/24:12 b,d,e Peggy's Blue Skylight 12:50 a,c,e Notes:
- 'Fables Of Faubus' is edited from the full length of 35:00 (according to Lindenmaier/Salewski)
- The timings for 'So Long Eric' and 'Parkeriana' come from d (they're wrong in liner notes)
- *) During this performance of 'So Long Eric', Johnny Coles collapsed due to a perforated gastric ulcer; he was hospitalized at the American Clinic at Neuilly, France, for the remainder of the Charles Mingus European Tour 1964,
Musidisc 500072 MU 763 and America AM 003-004-005 (3LP) contain an edited version of 'So Long Eric' (see April 19 for more information),
'So Long Eric' is mistitled 'Goodbye Pork Pie Hat' on d and e
b) Le Jazz CD 38
c) France's Concert FCD 102
d) France's Concert FCD 110
e) Revenge 32002
f) France's Concert FC 102 (LP)
April 19Théâtre des Champs-Elysées, Paris, France Sophisticated Lady 5:52/6:12 a,b Fables Of Faubus 27:30/27:47 a,b Parkeriana 23:25/23:35 a,b Meditations 21:47/23:04 a,b* Orange Was The Color Of Her Dress 14:05/16:00 a So Long Eric (edited) 5:40 b I Can't Get Started unissued Notes:
- The concert started 0.10 a.m. and ended 2.45 a.m. (according to Musidisc liner notes) - therefore this is under April 19, not April 18
- *) 'Meditations' lasts 27:30 on America 3LP-set
- 'So Long Eric' (23:21/27:10) on Musidisc (mistitled 'Goodbye Pork Pie Hat'), which features Coles, is actually an edited version from Salle Wagram and it fades in the end of Dolphy's alto sax solo before Richmond's drum solo.
- 'Sophisticated Lady' is a duet featuring Byard and Mingus
- Johnny Coles did not play in this concert, although some of the liner notes claim otherwise
That discog is slightly botched. "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress" is definitely on c.
Bottom line: if you have the 2 late 80s Esoldun/INA releases -- c and d in that discography -- you do not need e. All 3 of c, d and e do incorrectly state the date as 4/18/64.
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Perhaps you haven't heard:
“The Internet is the first thing that humanity has built that humanity doesn't understand...”I thought that was the Tower of Babel.
Yes, but I click on that link and see nothing on that page where I can reset my password.
No, I think you may be thinking of the tower of babble.
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Perhaps you haven't heard:
“The Internet is the first thing that humanity has built that humanity doesn't understand, the largest experiment in anarchy that we have ever had.” -
Shall I say it in French?
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Thanks for posting. Moran and Ndgeocello, an intriguing combination indeed. Bandwagon on board too
I'll be interested to see how this is received.
I don't want to be snarky about this but ... it's just irritating. Just is.
No shit this is on Blue Note, and big surprise it's streaming on NPR. I woke up cranky, but really, this is dumb.
That's sad. You must truly lead a tough life! If that's the case, the following "news" may make it even tougher for you. Don't look now, but Moran is just one of the "newer" pianists currently being targeted by Eicher (yes, the Manfred of the "dreamy, new-agey, sonically impotent" Eichers) as his latest "go to's". The others -- the all of a sudden new version of Thelonious Monk and Art Tatum all rolled into one, Craig Taborn, and the new Pi stud, David Virelles. Sleep well.
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I'm thinking he's not gonna help me with my bills.
Yeah, no. That's why the concept that musicians have any less time to spend on the internet than we do is a huge fallacy. They are human just like the rest of us.
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Yes, athletes exactly. The orientation/interests of those on teams/in locker rooms and those in the press box and in the stands (however knowledgeable those in the stands/pressbox might be) understandably tend to diverge, if for no other reason than the roles of these various figures are different, though to some degree obviously interdependent. With no one in the audience, football, baseball, jazz performances, etc. pretty much would not take place.
I would say that, within reasonable bounds, the orientation/interests of all those divergent but interdependent groups are legitimate. But your "Nobody else notices musicians dropping in here off and on just to set the record straight? What do you suppose one can properly infer from that?" implied that our orientation/interests here on this board are not. Insulting on your part? Oh, no.
BTW, by what exactly do "you suppose one can properly infer" from the supposed fact (tell that to Michael Weiss, for one; there are others) that musicians drop in here "just to set the record straight" but not otherwise?
I appreciate your scholarly approach to the argument. However you did not answer my question as to the exasperation evident from the parties involved. Berne has appeared here twice -- both times to scold. Hammer has appeared here once (AFAIK) -- again, only to scold someone who throws as much hearsay at the virtual dartboard as he can with the sole purpose of seeing what will stick -- just because he feels like it. This was not the first time, and I'm sure it won't be the last. This, I'm afraid, is the prevalent mentality in an atmosphere where keyboard muscles count for more than common sense. Ordinarily, I'd say that none of that matters. However, in our decidedly social media oriented world, this is how mindless rumor and conjecture get started and get to live far longer than they should.
In answer to your question, I'd have to say that I was being insulting. I apologize for that. It's a result of my own continued disappointment with how the music's fan base operates in general (there are exceptions), without seeing that maybe, just maybe, the fan base may be jazz's main problem. I'm always amused when people here criticize the Hoff board for similar reasons.
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I don't think it was really him.
It was him.
Nobody else notices musicians dropping in here off and on just to set the record straight? What do you suppose one can properly infer from that?
They've got other fish to fry? That the interests of musicians and fans tend to be dissimilar? But I'm sure that you've got a darker/more negative interpretation.
C'mon Larry. Admin is not supposed to insult members. And honestly, my "dark/negative interpretations" (as you call them) are not a sign of a personality defect nor have they appeared out of thin air. Surely, even you couldn't have missed the exasperation coming from both Berne and Hammer in their posts. Seriously, there needs to be more actual "knowing" before thinking one knows (and speaking as such) in the jazz community at large. Assumptions abound, and to be frank, were I a musician, I'd stay far away, just for my own sanity. Think of that concept as being similar to athletes who refuse to read and get caught up in newspaper clippings.
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I don't think it was really him.
It was him.
Nobody else notices musicians dropping in here off and on just to set the record straight? What do you suppose one can properly infer from that?
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Is this a collection of music from other albums besides Here Tis, or is there anything new? The only information I came across is this.
Editorial ReviewsIncluded first is Lou Donaldson's complete original LP Here 'Tis. Also contained here is a complete session recorded by Donaldson and Green.
It has the 5 McDuff/Green cuts from this in addition:
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Who does then?
J.D. Allen?
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This thread made me order the Lark's Tongues box; on a related note, I read somewhere that KC is touring this summer...
Good thing too! You'll have to start saving for the SaBB mammoth coming this Fall to an internet retailer near you.
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Rooster Ties is being ironic. There has been massive controversy for decades on the Led Zeppelin writing credits, and I have generally found them "guilty as charged". And they most definitely are guilty here (I loved Spirit, play them a lot more than I play Led Zeppelin), on "Whole Lotta Love", on "Black Mountain Side", on "Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You", on "How Many More Times" etc. They've even discreetly admitted so at times,with "amended" composition credits. They are hardly alone in that regard, but were incredibly blatant, and there was a lot of songwrting royalty money involved, so it has drawn a lot of attention.
Right. More money involved, more people offended. It's not something the Stones haven't done on EVERY one of their records.
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Both released on a 1992 Vogue CD entitled "Midnight Soul":
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Strange to have a 'book' from such a peripheral figure.
Wake up! With a couple of possible exceptions, they're all peripheral.
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please review it ASAP; I am interested, but the few excerpts I read on line seemed a bit lurid.
It really surprises me when a native New Yorker who is somewhat familiar with the jazz scene feigns naivete.
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10 solos and 4 trios on each. Trio is with Everett Barksdale on guitar and Slam Stewart on bass.
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Giuffre? The pioneer? I guess the OP has never heard of Nat King Cole. Or Red Norvo.
Bob Dylan corner
in Artists
Posted
Keep it up guys! As if watching a bunch of pasty white guys arguing over musical "authenticity" wasn't funny enough, Bev's general intelligence aside, this is like having a front row seat to a few mental defectives argue over whether blue or magenta is the new red. I'm sure Bob's happy, though. It's more press than he's gotten in 40 years.