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Everything posted by Gheorghe
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Yes this are the two versions of the tune I have on record....
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Was he the composer of that fine bossa tune I heard on a Freddie Hubbard album, maybe also on a Messengers Album with Freddie in the group ? I remember that even my wife liked the "feeling of the tune" , but I was quite astonished it´s not a brazilian composer.... But most of all, how Freddie and Lee Morgan cooked on that tune, which sounds like some palm beaches , sun, holiday resort and relaxin at the pool.... that happy feeling of summer vacation...
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so my onomatopoetic name "Dinger Ringer Boom" must have been a further developement from the onomatopoetic name given to it by British colonists....
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looks like "The Evil Prince of Darkness", could be a Miles cover like Tutu or how they were....
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I can understand that very well, with "readers´ preferences and expectations..... I also have books that are too much for me. Especially if it´s more about social aspects and very little about the music or the live of the artists. I think I have two of them , one is about Mingus and is titled "The Angry Baron" I think but I tried to read it and gave up. Same with a book about Bud Powell, I forgot the author, but there is mostly social studies about population during that generation and so....
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Yes, I can imagine that, I mean Rollins praising Tracey. About Griffin, yeah those Five Spot discs are fantastic, but later I read "The Little Giant" , the bio about Griff written by Mike Hennesey and Griff is quoted that as much as he loves Monk and loved to play with Monk he sometimes was not pleased with Monk´s comping and was best when Monk layed out during Griffin´s solo, which Monk anyway did often (doing his little dances).... But we must think about one point: If a pianist has a certain style (Tracey being Monkish), this is mighty fine, but on the other hand if you are a "houses pianist" at a club and have to play with different artists, among them Stan Getz for example), you must support them, not try to force them to go into another direction. I say this because at the very beginning I made the same mistake, until a name musician told me about it, that I might work on it and this was one of the greatest lessons I got. We in Vienna had a wonderful pianist and teacher, his name was Fritz Pauer and many readers might have heard about him or even have some record of him, maybe his famous "Blues Inside Out" with Jimmy Woode and Tony Inzalaco....... well Fritz Pauer could play any style !!!! I heard him with dozens of musicians. He could play in a more mellow mood for players like Eddy Lockjaw Davis, Harry Sweets Edison, in a more Bud Powell manner with Griffin, Sonny Stitt or Cecil Payne, he was great in modal a la McCoy Tyner for Dave Liebman , and so on ....... ad infinitum. And he was perfect on stride and he was as near to Monk as you can get (he even wrote a very fine medium tune "Spelunke" that sounds exactly like Monk, without copying him. I was there when he introduced it to the audience..... All musicians loved him and enjoyed to play with him.
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oh yeah, "Hannibal Books" in Vienna ..... I know they translated a lot of stuff, but I already had the original editions in english. I can understand your point about some rougher reading for non-musicians. It can be vice versa also: I have some individual biographies in German , I think it was "Oreos Press" like let´s say "Dizzy Gillespie-His Live, His Music, His Records" or same with Mingus. I wish I could have written those books and try to make a bridge between Listeners/Music Lovers and Musicans/musically trained people so it would cover both different kinds of listening to music. The Mingus Author obviously was not a musician, because I think he didn´t hear, that different titles (and Mingus often changed titles) still are the same tune or at least the same chords. But I would like to understand better how non musically trained jazzfans listen to a record or a live thing: Do they more listen to the whole thing and the "mood" or "rhythm" of a piece, somehow in that manner ? If I listen to a record I like, I really enjoy it and it makes me glad, but as well I hear in what key they play, and hear exactly where they are, how the structure of the tune is, if it´s chord progressions of a standard tune or if it´s some other number of bars or other chords. I mean, we don´t count bars, we don´t write down the chords, it is evident like colours or structures on a picture. So I really would like to get to know it from another point of view. Yes, Stan Britts Gordon Bio is very fine. It was written when Dex still was alive and I think the book ends with speculations, if he would return to playing and recording or not...
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Maybe this was the concert I saw on ORF2 then. I was in "Ausseer-Land" then for two weeks fishing and at night I saw it on TV. Maybe that´s the reason why I was not there, when they played at Stadthalle. And yeah, the Stadthalle had bad acoustics..... I saw Miles there, I saw Mingus (it must have been the 1976 edition with Walrath, Ford, Neloms)..... Much later, Hancock with Wayne Shorter was at the Opera House. And some concerts were at Concert House too. Those were the days when those "holy venues" sometimes were overcrowded by "wild young hipster". The old staff must have been shocked to see long haired "hippies" or "gammlers" (as older people called long haired men) instead of tuxedos and evening-dresses.....
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Well I heard or saw Tracey only on records or DVDs. He seems to have some influences of Monk, and maybe those players who wanted it more straight with more traditional chords and lines, didn´t like that. Like Monk, he is great for his own music, but some players like even the great Johnny Griffin told that they had difficulties with his comping...
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My first book, decades ago was "Jazz Masters of the Forties". I found it in a bookstore in Basel, Switzerland in the 70´s. Most of the other books are name biografies, I have Dizzy´s autobiography, at least two books about Bird, that came out in the early 70´s, a book about Fats Navarro, a book about Bud, about Dex, one about Monk, so I have really some biographies about key figures of bop as well.
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Really a great regathering of original bop stars.
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Once in the seventies a young kid borrowed me a book about the famous club, written by his owner Ronnie Scott. It had another cover, a kind of caricature of Mr. Scott, and a lot of memories of Giants playing at his club, some happy, some really sad as Hawk at the very end of his life... and about two tenorists that were have to deal with for the fine british rhythm section, they were Don Byas to a lesser extent, and above all Lucky Thompson....
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Well, maybe because BillF and sure a lot of other readers who might be Bill Evans fans wondered why I praised McCoy as having been as much influencal like Bud before that and omitted the name of Bill Evans and explained why. For a group musician it was always important for me to fit in the formed band or the leading soloists and during the 70´s a gread deal of Sax Players liked Trane and Post-Trane stuff and modal. You coudn´t do that on piano without having McCoy Tyner as a kind of inspiration from the start, a kind of "schooling" by listening to at least some stuff he did, to fit in what was called by musicians and audience. That means not only musicians, but music lovers too. Maybe the Bill Evans clique was a very close and more reclusive one, since the folks you could talk to and meet every night in the joints and at concerts it was more the McCoy type of music that was heard, if it was about piano....
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Sorry to say no, because he didn´t donate them to me, but let me listen to them. I remember especially well the 1982 "Pannonian Flower" he worked on during that time, and the tape with Burton Green. Burton also played the Novotny composition with them on concert, and then in exchange of requests he called Monk´s "Pannonica", great memories, but only in my head.....
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In the 70´s and early 80´s the Austrian Free Jazz Icone Fritz Novotny (Reform Art Unit) had his radio show about Free Jazz on ORF Ö1 . I knew him personally and got a lot of listening advices from him. I already was a fan of Ornette Coleman and others, and he gave me tapes to listen, stuff he did with Reform Art Unit and a concert they did with Burton Green....
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Hannibal Marvin Peterson was very popular in my youth. He played at "Jazz by Freddie", the defunct famous Viennese jazz club. And at some point, his "Children of Sanchez" sold very well. I don´t have the album, but they spinned it often in clubs when there was no live music on schedule... My first approach to Pharoah Sanders was in the 70´s his Impulse album "Live at the East". I wanted to have Mr Sanders sign it for me and tell him that it was my entrance into his great music, but then....... I was too shy. He didn´t look like someone who meet backstage and who might say "gee, that´s nice. What´s your name..... and sign it for me"....
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Maybe he was not so popular among upcoming piano players at my time. Those who studied at Jazz Conservatorium under the great Fritz Pauer were told to listen to Bud and transcribe pieces, and to McCoy I think. Bill Evans I don´t remember ever coming to Austria. I heard his slower, a bit laid back approach on "Kind of Blue" and one live album of the sextet from the late fifties, but not much more. I think there was a group of people who listened much to him, but it seems that was a more narrow circle around here. At least, among the people I knew and played with, he had a lesser role than people like Miles, Trane (who also came to Austria when he was alive), and from that point further..... Once I got a sheet of "Waltz for Debbie" and played it from sheet and some chorusses on it, but forgot it after that. As much as I remember it sounded very very romantic, but in another kind than the most ballads I heard and played. It´s more like some romantic classic pianist from the 19th century, like Robert Schuhmann I think. But I´m not really an insider in that category....
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I heard Lou with a quartet featuring Herman Foster on several occasions. But once there was a stupid thing on a festival when Jackie McLean and Lou Donaldson were on the same day and hour in different halls. I had to choose Jackie McLean on that occasion as a more demanding music. But on other occasions it was nice to hear this quartet, only that Herman Foster overdoes it a bit with his heavy chords. You hear it too often. Later he went back to have an organ in his group....
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I always liked some latin percussion added to regular jazz groups, starting with Dizzys first latin tunes "Manteca" "Tin Tin Deo", the Afro Cuban things of Machito with soloists like Howard McGhee and Brew Moore, Kenny Dorham "Afro Cuban" from 1955, and last not least on Mingus´ "Cumbia and Jazz Fusion" and "Three Worlds of Drums" . I listen less to pure latin things without context to so called "jazz". I´m not sure if I had heard Cal Tjader once.... A strange thing that was en vogue among some old or neo hippies when I was already an adult was those lot percussions outdoor in the Viena nature areas near the Danube river. There are a lot of nudists and they always had a kind of "corner" where they gathered and did some percussion sessions and certainly smoked reefers or how you call it. And they had also those strange sounding native Australian instrument that makes so strange sounds "Dinger Ringer Boom" or something like that. This was not really for me, I like nature, but without sounds of human beings, and I like music in clubs, concerts, at home etc.....
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I found my way into bebop after listening to "The Great Concert of Charles Mingus" from Paris 1964 with the long track "Parkeriana". A guy who was 5 years older than me and played a little alto had a lot of Bird though his main interest was free jazz. So I got to Bird at a moment when I wanted to know from where all this great music I already knew and played a little, comes from. About those silver-cover WEA "That´s Jazz" I remember it very well and had and still have four of them "Mingus Blues and Roots", "Coltrane-Cherry The Avantgarde", "LesMcCann Eddy Harris Montreux 1969" and maybe "Art Blakey-Thelonious Monk 1957". I was not aware of WCJ, it somehow remained a complete hole in my discography and my playing experiences". The only WCJ related things I have is the "Mulligan-Baker from Carnegie Hall 1974" , and a lot of Baker live in Europe from 1978 until the end. That´s the kind of Baker I was very aware of and liked to listen to , on record and live, if I wanted to relax with some more "quiet" acoustic jazz. I once heard some Baker from the 50´s but it didn´t impress me in the same way like the way he played after his comeback. He himself said that he plays better than in the past. I heard Mulligan more as a guest on other recordings by musicians I listen to more frequently: Mulligan Meets Monk, some occasions where Mulligan sat in with Mingus in the 70´s, and a really astonishing all star quintet set from 82 with Diz and Mulligan on the front line, and Max Roach on drums. That´s the best Mulligan solos I ever heard.
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Reflecting on Your 2021 Jazz Year: New-to-You Favorites
Gheorghe replied to HutchFan's topic in Miscellaneous Music
Finally it came out in 2021. I remember when I was a DB subscriber and there was a Sonny Rollins interview right after that tour and he talked about it. -
I remember the exitement we all, who had purchase Agartha when it came out, had then some insiders told us about Pangaea. It was on Sony CBS Japan, like "Dark Magus" and just great.
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I think, fitting to the VSOP thread might be also the Herbie-Chick Corea Encounter from 1978. That´s the same story: The two key figures of 70´s jazz, who both had played with Miles before, gathering together. When it was in autumn and my wife asked me what kind of records I would like, I said if it could be something similar to VSOP, from the same period, it can be acoustic or electric, just to be good music that I might like. And she got this one ! It was very very much discussed and listened to in 1978, and a "must have" album. I saw it only on TV then. Somehow I didn´t get the record and now finally, listenig very very much to 70´s jazz I have it. It´s fantastic, they really cook. Maiden Voyage and Spain are really highlights, and the stride and swing jazz on "Liza" is also outstanding. It has influences of Bud and Monk in it, as Bud and Monk each did stride very well, but not copying it from others, but doing there own stuff with it.....
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Anyway I wanted to open a topic but glad to see we have one about McCoy Tyner. I would say that McCoy Tyner as an influence on other upcoming pianists was as important than Bud Powell before him. Bud Powell would have hunderttousends of followers who would take some influences of his style into their own piano playing, that´s the 40´s and 50´s . And then the next great influence on others might have been McCoy. I´m glad I saw several steps of his career not in historical manner like Bud (who died when I was still only 6 years old) but live by listening to him, see him on stage, hear others who might have got some influences from him, and buying his records and waiting for the next record to appear. In the time of 1977/78 I was in the last two years of high school or "Lyceum" or as you might call it and we guys would discuss new upcoming releases of the musicians we admired, and at least two were with McCoy Tyner: Super Trios, and "Milestone Allstars Rollins Tyner Carter" . IMHO, McCoy Tyner has a similar important role on piano style like Bud Powell had before him.....
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ORNETTE COLEMAN - ROUND TRIP: ORNETTE COLEMAN ON BLUE NOTE
Gheorghe replied to dougcrates's topic in Re-issues
Hello ! About BN´s being more conservative or not: I thought because you always still have parts of straight ahead groove with a walking bass. I noticed this on "Empty Foxhole" on the first tune "Good Old Days", on the 2 Golden Circle and on other occasions. About your separate point: I´m a 1959 born (wasn´t that the year when "Shape of Jazz to Come" was recorded ? So I came into jazz in the 70´s and as you know, in the record shops in general there was more the new music, the electric jazz and for acoustic you had to seek some remainders from old cataloges. We had about three record stores with good jazz sections: Radio Kratz in 1060 Viena, Emi-Columbia in 1010 Viena and it was a bit later someone told me about "Red Octopus" in 1080 Viena. In the first shop I could purchase "Empty Foxhole" and the then latest album, the 1976 recorded thing with the early edition of "Prime Time". Later in Autumn there was the Impulse "Crisis", which I thought is the most advanced thing since it doesn´t have straight ahead swing sections... At "Emi Columbia" I purchased "Golden Circle Vol. 1 and 2". And I loved and love everything Ornette did, from the first listening on. There is no way I would consider the electric Prime Time inferior to the old acoustic days. "Neoconservative" institutional jazz doesn´t mean nothing to me. I was there when the actual style of the decade was Jazz-Rock and electric Jazz, same as people of the generation of my parents possible was there when Bird and Diz played on 52nd Street. So how could I exclude a certain decade, a certain style. You had to learn music, not only from the historical point, but from the point to be able to understand it and play it properly, maybe add your own thoughts to it..... You can´t appear as a new boy wonder in the style of 60´s Miles and make speeches where you tell us, what´s good and what has to be ignored.....