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thedwork

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  1. could you describe it for us? ...there are several comics you might want to watch who, IMHO, exemplify that style of humor. It is a style or manner of delivery of the lines which are unique to Jewish humor. A short list: Glenn Hirsch Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks [more of a writer than comedian] Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Louis Nye Carl Reiner Mort Sahl George Burns Some were more edgy like: Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black To down right silly: Milton Berle Jack Benny Sid Ceasar Bottom line: There is a definable delivery style of the lines and of the types of humor that sets it apart from strictly ethnic humor or country humor as two examples. A Wiki source, but gives a fairly good definition of the style, I think: Jewish-American Comedy Here are a few more comedians I think typify the genre: Rodney Dangerfield Madeline Khan Shelley Berman Then, of course, there's the Marx Brothers and the Three Stooges. Classic stuff, IMHO. Three Stooges Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks etc... i personally don't see that as a list that shows any type of singular style of comedy. as matter of fact, i see that as showing just the opposite: there is so much stylistic variation in that list as to show that there is not a "typical" Jewish style of humor. sure they may all be Jewish but... it's like saying there's a typical Black style of playing jazz saxophone and then listing Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Anthony Braxton, Kenny Garrett, Dewey Redman, and Joe McPhee to prove the point. interestingly, the wiki link you provided that you say "gives a fairly good definition of the style," says virtually nothing about style. here's the entirety of what it says on the subject: Jewish comedy has often featured ridicule and insult jokes, including insulting other minority groups... Characteristics of comedians include wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, and a "critical edge" from my experience, all of the things listed there - insult jokes, wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, "critical edge" - are simply elements of most good comedy performers/writers arsenal no matter what their background. ok, maybe not insult jokes... but seriously, who in their right mind thinks that "wit" and "verbal skills" are found mainly in Jewish comedy and not all good comedy?! it's absurd. the little wiki article also says this: "Some common themes among American Jewish comedians include their heritage as Jews, experience of living between two worlds (ethnic and mainstream), anxiety of living as a minority in America and the foibles of American culture." this is definitely true, but that stuff is content, not style. anyone can feel free to see that as a semantic point. but you'd be wrong. content is definitely not style. it may contribute to it, but it's not it. not by the longest shot. i think there are things that many Jewish comedians (but by not by any means all...) generally share in terms of content but not necessarily style. and even some of those content things are not as specific to Jewish comedy as one may initially think. take, say, the wiki example of "Anxiety of living as a minority in America." ok. Jewish comedians certainly joke/write about that. but so do Black comedians. and i assume so do Hispanic comedians. and i can think of a bit off the top of my head that Bill Burr does about being the White minority in Harlem. it's not only a Jewish thing. or the 1st thing the wiki article lists as a Jewish theme: "[Their] heritage." ALL comedians use their heritage for material. and since certain styles and contents aren't only Jewish, it doesn't seem right to me to call them "Jewish Comedy." all that being said, i'd assume that there are some things in some Jewish stand-up and comedy writing that are somewhat unique (but not exclusive) to Jewish performers/writers. maybe a certain intellectual underpinning? but i dunno 'bout that. i wouldn't necessarily hold Adam Sandler and Judd Apatow up as intellectual humorists. and i'd also certainly say there are plenty of non-Jewish comedians who are quite "intellectual" - Bob Newhart comes to mind. maybe incorporating content on psychotherapy is pretty Jewy (though of course i just mentioned Newhart...). but yeah, that's it. joking about seeing your shrink. totally Jewy... From that same Wiki source: Themes [1] and styles [2] [1] Some common themes among American Jewish comedians include their heritage as Jews, experience of living between two worlds (ethnic and mainstream), anxiety of living as a minority in America and the foibles of American culture. Jewish comedy has often featured ridicule and insult jokes, including insulting other minority groups. [2] Characteristics of comedians include wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, and a "critical edge". Theme leads to content. Style, however, includes the non-verbal and/or visual aspect to the spoken word. The inflection of the voice, the wry smile, the engagement of the audience, the panache or je ne sais quoi during the delivery of the jokes/punchlines which set this humor apart from other styles. How, one might posit, does anyone verbalize a "critical edge"? I added the delivery aspect to the timing and manner in which the jokes are spoken. There is a certain "laugh-at-yourself" style unique to Jewish-American Comedy. Glenn Hirsch has it down pat, IMHO. It's there, you just have to watch and listen. Surely you aren't suggesting all humor/comedians are the same now, are you? Could you see a difference in style between say Larry the Cable Guy or Richard Pryor? If not, then maybe others here can do a better job of explaining than I can. well... if it wasn't crystal clear before, it is now. last straw and certainly not worth any more energy/time. peace out goodspeak...
  2. could you describe it for us? ...there are several comics you might want to watch who, IMHO, exemplify that style of humor. It is a style or manner of delivery of the lines which are unique to Jewish humor. A short list: Glenn Hirsch Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks [more of a writer than comedian] Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Louis Nye Carl Reiner Mort Sahl George Burns Some were more edgy like: Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black To down right silly: Milton Berle Jack Benny Sid Ceasar Bottom line: There is a definable delivery style of the lines and of the types of humor that sets it apart from strictly ethnic humor or country humor as two examples. A Wiki source, but gives a fairly good definition of the style, I think: Jewish-American Comedy Here are a few more comedians I think typify the genre: Rodney Dangerfield Madeline Khan Shelley Berman Then, of course, there's the Marx Brothers and the Three Stooges. Classic stuff, IMHO. Three Stooges Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks etc... i personally don't see that as a list that shows any type of singular style of comedy. as matter of fact, i see that as showing just the opposite: there is so much stylistic variation in that list as to show that there is not a "typical" Jewish style of humor. sure they may all be Jewish but... it's like saying there's a typical Black style of playing jazz saxophone and then listing Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Anthony Braxton, Kenny Garrett, Dewey Redman, and Joe McPhee to prove the point. interestingly, the wiki link you provided that you say "gives a fairly good definition of the style," says virtually nothing about style. here's the entirety of what it says on the subject: Jewish comedy has often featured ridicule and insult jokes, including insulting other minority groups... Characteristics of comedians include wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, and a "critical edge" from my experience, all of the things listed there - insult jokes, wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, "critical edge" - are simply elements of most good comedy performers/writers arsenal no matter what their background. ok, maybe not insult jokes... but seriously, who in their right mind thinks that "wit" and "verbal skills" are found mainly in Jewish comedy and not all good comedy?! it's absurd. the little wiki article also says this: "Some common themes among American Jewish comedians include their heritage as Jews, experience of living between two worlds (ethnic and mainstream), anxiety of living as a minority in America and the foibles of American culture." this is definitely true, but that stuff is content, not style. anyone can feel free to see that as a semantic point. but you'd be wrong. content is definitely not style. it may contribute to it, but it's not it. not by the longest shot. i think there are things that many Jewish comedians (but by not by any means all...) generally share in terms of content but not necessarily style. and even some of those content things are not as specific to Jewish comedy as one may initially think. take, say, the wiki example of "Anxiety of living as a minority in America." ok. Jewish comedians certainly joke/write about that. but so do Black comedians. and i assume so do Hispanic comedians. and i can think of a bit off the top of my head that Bill Burr does about being the White minority in Harlem. it's not only a Jewish thing. or the 1st thing the wiki article lists as a Jewish theme: "[Their] heritage." ALL comedians use their heritage for material. and since certain styles and contents aren't only Jewish, it doesn't seem right to me to call them "Jewish Comedy." all that being said, i'd assume that there are some things in some Jewish stand-up and comedy writing that are somewhat unique (but not exclusive) to Jewish performers/writers. maybe a certain intellectual underpinning? but i dunno 'bout that. i wouldn't necessarily hold Adam Sandler and Judd Apatow up as intellectual humorists. and i'd also certainly say there are plenty of non-Jewish comedians who are quite "intellectual" - Bob Newhart comes to mind. maybe incorporating content on psychotherapy is pretty Jewy (though of course i just mentioned Newhart...). but yeah, that's it. joking about seeing your shrink. totally Jewy...
  3. is there a Jewish comedy "style?" i don't know. i tend to think yeah, somewhat. but i also tend to feel that much of it may just be Jewish people being creatively funny and people point to that and say, "Jewish Comedy" when it's more like comedy that happens to be made by a Jewish person. same as many cultural traits that are claimed by certain groups but which are actually relatively universal: like the importance of family (italians like to claim that one...), tradition, self-reliance, guilt, etc etc... "Jewish guilt." as if other groups don't have guilt. catholic guilt, etc... anyway, here's some comedy that has specific references to Jewishness (or at least Jewish stereotypes...) and issues relating to Jewish identity/culture. i strung together the bits that were pertinent to this thread from her Jesus Is Magic show. self-deprecating? sometimes. Jewy? for sure. imo, she's a hero and fucking hilarious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh8IJX6-6Aw
  4. is there anything about the humor in this clip that is particularly "Jewish" in content/style? aside from the fact that Mel Brooks is Jewish? by the way - she is of course insanely hot...
  5. well this is interesting: the 2nd scene i wanted to post here is "blocked worldwide" on youtube. its being blocked in and of itself is not surprising. it's an HBO program after all and they own it and etc etc etc... but the previous scene i uploaded above is from the same episode and was not detected. both were uploaded as "unlisted" videos. here are the two reasons supplied by youtube for the blocked status: "Olivia Munn Shares Her Paparazzi Face-Olivia Munn Shares Her Paparazzi Face", audiovisual content administered by: Associated Press (AP) "Late Night With Jimmy Fallon", audiovisual content administered by: NBC Universal there's audio auto-detection software on youtube that blocks music content from being uploaded (sometimes only in certain parts of the globe), but there's no music content in this scene that would cause that to click in. no idea what the Jimmy Fallon connection would be, but "Olivia Munn Shares Her Paparazzi Face", audiovisual content administered by: Associated Press (AP)" is interesting. maybe Munn's face is video auto-detected right now 'cuz she's doing so well? the scene i tried to upload was all about her character and she's terrific in the scene. so is Sam Waterston. oh well. hope i don't get penalized too harshly... * Edit! weird goings on. i deleted the "worldwide blocked" vid (double meltdown). then 3-4 hours later, after it was deleted, i got this email from youtube: Dear thedwork65, Your video "Double Meltdown", may have content that is owned or licensed by Associated Press (AP), but it’s still available on YouTube! In some cases, ads may appear next to it. This claim is not penalizing your account status. Visit your Copyright Notice page for more details on the policy applied to your video. Sincerely, - The YouTube Team well, if anyone is interested here's the scene. it's kinda long and i had to edit it together 'cuz there were other subplots interspersed that i figured folks here didn't need to see if they only wanted to check out one good scene. anyway, enjoy if you feel so inclined (it might be gone soon...): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fi_U672EoA p.s. - anyone else w/ youtube experience that has advice for this kind of thing please chime in...
  6. still feel the same about Sorkin's The Newsroom now as when it started 'bout a month or two back: not his best but still worth watching. it's worth it because within each hour-long episode there's at least one or two scenes which are better than most everything else on television at that moment. last week's episode was no exception. there were two scenes (both somewhat longish...) which i thought were exceptional. here's one below. don't give up in the first couple minutes - it builds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCV4RdqnzKQ will post the next scene as soon as it finishes uploading...
  7. Yeah you did, Pete. We have already gone around on this notion that a person can claim to be atheist but not claim he is Jewish. wow goodspeak. is goodspeak short for gobbledygook? i'll let David Rabe speak for me here: If your manner of [writing in this thread] is in any way a reflection of what goes on inside your head, you are lucky you can tie your shoes. maybe you make sense in person? fun w/ words and phrases! clever clever. how's that working out for you?
  8. likely the thread's title and how it started out. but it's still a good question Shawn. but then how long 'til it gets locked...
  9. I absolutely agree with you. Why more Christians don't get on board with that concept is beyond me. You simply cannot shove religion down somebody's throat...it has to be a personal choice. Well put. An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer. i don't know what you wanted us to understand when you replied to Pete C. "An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer." did you think he wasn't aware that the term 'atheist' means a person who thinks there's no God? 'cuz i assume he does know that. and i also assume that you know he knows that. what are you saying exactly? do you know? i'd like to know... not interested, eh? not surprised... Pete knew what I meant and that is enough for me. that's cool. you two obviously have some kind of forum history w/ each other. rock on... just so you know, when i read this exchange below...: An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer. ...it reads to me as you stating that one cannot be Jewish without believing in God. i actually can't see reading it any other way. i assume you know there are a lot of people who would disagree w/ you on that. or maybe you and Pete have some running gag that gives a completely different meaning to that exchange that nobody from outside the joke could decipher? whatever the case may be, just wanted to let you know what it looks like to this reader...
  10. horrifying. just when you think you know how fucked up things can be, this report lands at your feet. i couldn't read much past the 4rd or 5th paragraph. monstrous.
  11. An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer. i don't know what you wanted us to understand when you replied to Pete C. "An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer." did you think he wasn't aware that the term 'atheist' means a person who thinks there's no God? 'cuz i assume he does know that. and i also assume that you know he knows that. what are you saying exactly? do you know? i'd like to know... not interested, eh? not surprised...
  12. sad to lose such a deep thinker/artist. La Jetee is of course a masterpiece and very a soulful intricate film. but i'm still dealing w/ A Grin Without A Cat. that thing is mind-blowing and in some ways, more "important." RIP Chris Marker...
  13. An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer. i don't know what you wanted us to understand when you replied to Pete C. "An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer." did you think he wasn't aware that the term 'atheist' means a person who thinks there's no God? 'cuz i assume he does know that. and i also assume that you know he knows that. what are you saying exactly? do you know? i'd like to know...
  14. does this mean an atheist can be a christian believer?
  15. yeah. i thought of Munich as well, but i was too young to really remember it.
  16. thats's painful. criminal even. sorry to hear it... edit: you're welcome
  17. and now for something completely different: all the stuff so far has been powerful, but also "important." a very powerful TV moment for me, though basically unimportant, was the final episode of The Sopranos. i'm a big movie/theater/drama person, so for me it was also kinda 'important' in that the arts are important to me and i'd lived w/ that series for quite a few years. i know not everyone dug The Sopranos. and not everyone who did dig The Sopranos dug the ending. but lemme tell you something - for me it was PERFECT. the best television series conclusion ever. very powerful moment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqpDxCo2vic
  18. no contest w/ the 1st most powerful: the 2nd plane hitting the tower. watched it live. it was, and will always be, one of the most horrifying and surreal moments of my life. 2nd most powerful: can't think of one right now. the first one counts for both maybe...
  19. right on... i don't see those 3 things as mutually exclusive. human beings often have a lot going on within themselves. the bright ones anyway, imo...
  20. totally agreed here. though i don't know that anyone here has referred to Allen as 'generic' in this thread. i'd have to disagree w/ you here though mjzee. though you may be right about Allen not necessarily identifying w/ any jewish 'causes,' neighborhoods, or 'culturally,' there's a reason why it's called "personal identity." donating to the JNF isn't the only way to personally identify yourself as, or personally feel, jewish. and having seen most of his films at least once, and the ones from 1975 through the mid 90s anywhere from 2,3, or more times, i can tell you that there are many, many references and situations that are specifically jewish. and i don't mean a mother instilling guilt or some behavior/activity that is generically perceived by the general public to be typically jewish. i mean scenes w/ rabbis, bat mitvahs, characters overtly and specifically talking about their jewishness, etc... it's prevalent. seeing Woody Allen as a jew is not problematic. but if jewishness is the only thing you see when you watch Woody Allen, then you need a new pair of glasses...
  21. a lot of the article is quoted here for reference. the chunks in italics are excerpts from Ivry's article. my responses appear beneath these excerpts in blue. please excuse the length... Is self-deprecation killing Jewish comedy? This article doesn’t seem to be at all about self-deprecation in comedy. Oops… likely the editor’s fault and not the Benjamin Ivry’s… In "Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious" (1905), Sigmund Freud observes that a strict superego - or the conscience that punishes misbehavior - results in a correspondingly aggressive jest. As we all have found, whether at school or in the workplace, the harshest superego suppresses laughs entirely. In practical comedic terms, jokes get meaner and meaner until they stop being funny altogether. Imo, that’s all just so much psychobabble gobbledygook. “Look at the jargon I can use and the name-dropping I’m capable of. I’m smart, huh?” but that shit's comparatively unimportant in this context… For decades, Allen, now 73, has presented himself as a dismal icon of despair, and in a recent interview he tells a fawning Argentine journalist that "life is suffering," whining with characteristic joylessness… For decades, audiences have applauded this culture of complaint. He doesn’t “present himself” as anything. Anyone who knows anything about Allen knows that his outlook on the human condition and nature has been rather… shall we say ‘not so rosy’ ever since he started doing films (and maybe earlier). Ivry is using the phrase “present himself” to make it seem like Allen is some sort of poseur, or worse liar, by saying what he does about his outlook. That’s horseshit. Maybe Ivry’s one of those financially well-off, self-helpy, new-agey jackasses who thinks that other people don’t have the right to be sad or depressed because it impinges upon his personal happiness. Vomit… Even Allen’s reported "true love" of jazz clarinet is expressed publicly in desultory sour-toned performances in a Dixieland jazz band cheered on by star-struck punters at concerts worldwide. Self-deprecating humor turns to self-deprecation, and then just general deprecation. Huh? What in the world is the Ivry saying in this above graph? There’s no quote from Allen supplied here about music/clarinet so I honestly have no real clue as to what he’s talking about. Does he mean Allen shouldn’t say anything negative about his own playing? If so, everyone on this board knows only the most completely clueless writer would ever expect that of any musician. Plus, note his placing “true love” in quotes. Is he saying Allen doesn’t love jazz clarinet? What is this guy’s problem? Allen sued clothing company American Apparel, for using his likeness on billboards without his consent… Allen accused American Apparel of engaging in a "despicable effort to intimidate" him by claiming that by marrying Soon-Yi Previn, the adopted daughter of his ex-wife Mia Farrow, Allen damaged his own potential for endorsements. Of course, no one disputes that Allen did marry his ex-wife's adopted daughter, but bringing up the matter in the context of this lawsuit ticked off the comedian considerably. Charney, a Montreal-born Jew, has been involved in some controversies of his own, yet Allen revealed a fatal lack of self-awareness in not merely complaining about the unauthorized use of his image, dressed as a Hasidic rabbi in "Annie Hall," but also calling American Apparel advertisements "sleazy," "adolescent" and "infantile." Allen's own vulnerability to similar criticisms following the Previn scandal seems to have slipped his mind entirely. Well, as usual, more likely than not herein lies the rub. This guy just loves stick it to Woody so he can show all his readers how morally superior he is to the guy who is simply a disgusting, “sleazy” letch. And this type loves this situation because they feel they have carte blanche due to the generally negative public opinion of older men marrying/dating younger woman. Notice that he calls Farrow Allen’s “ex-wife” twice in two successive sentences. Farrow and Allen were never married. But he knows that. This just gives him a way implying that Previn was Allen’s adopted daughter without actually writing it. Now that’s “sleazy.” Also, the Ivry takes no space to comment, even a small sentence, on the advertisers’ lack of ethics/illegality in using Woody’s image without his permission. It was not only his image, but an image of him playing his most famous role, Alvy Singer in Annie Hall. From the huffington post: “American Apparel lawyer Stuart Slotnick said the company plans to make Allen's relationships to actress Mia Farrow and her adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn, whom Allen married, the focus of a trial scheduled to begin in federal court in Manhattan on May 18.” Now that’s even more sleazy! Unfuckingbelievable. Yes, Woody’s decision to go with Previn was controversial and can easily be argued to have been a bad decision. even amoral if you wanna go there. But Ivry here is simply bringing it up as an excuse to insult Allen. What does it have to do w/ self-deprecation or aggression in comedy? Nothing, that’s what. Sleazy… But then, Allen is a famous failure in psychoanalysis, which he finally dropped after 30 years of therapy, around the very time he began his relationship with Previn. John Baxter's "Woody Allen: A Biography" (Da Capo Press, 1999) points out that "like Catholic confession, Allen's form of analysis let the penitent go free to sin again." Ahh, back to the psychobabble again. Clever… and no surprise that Ivry would choose Baxter’s Bio of Allen as his source. From library journal: “…a fair amount of Baxter's material is marginal, second-hand, or overly familiar, particularly coverage of the Soon-Yi Previn scandal. This likely results from Baxter's being denied access to Allen and most of his colleagues.”Ivry should read Eric Lax's bio of Allen instead. or better yet, check out Bjorkman's Woody Allen On Woody Allen. highly recommended for anyone interested in Allen's moviemaking process/thoughts. No one doubts Allen's continued abilities to crank out gags like the classic "I don't believe in an afterlife, although I am bringing a change of underwear." Really? That’s the example Ivry gives us to display Allen’s genius? This guy has no idea what is going on. Indeed, Allen's films, as critics and even some fans have observed, have increasingly become black holes of futile despair, "sour, dispirited, almost vindictive" as Terrence Rafferty wrote in a still-pertinent review of "Husbands and Wives" (1992). More evidence that Ivry is clueless; and worse, intentionally misleading his readers. As written, the above sentence is likely to be read as meaning a majority of critics disapproved of Husbands And Wives. This is not the case and Ivry knows it. It’s widely praised as one of Allen’s best films (I certainly think it is) and it has a score of 100% on rottentomatoes. If Ivry had substituted “me and my friend Terrence” in place of “critics and even some fans” above, at least it wouldn’t’ve been sleazy. Just ignorant. Such male stars as John Cusack, Kenneth Branagh and Michael Caine are puppetlike stand-ins, straining to imitate Allen's own herky-jerky speech, uncontrolled gestures… More bullshit. Cusack and Caine do no such imitating and the two films they appear in are two of Woody’s best. However, Ivry is unfortunately right about Branagh. It was painful to watch. It ruined what may have otherwise been a good picture. I recall reading an interview w/ Woody about it and he stated that when they started shooting and he saw how Branagh was interpreting the material, he took him aside and told him he thought he didn’t need to try and “do Woody.” Branagh told Allen that he felt he should keep playing the character the same way and Woody was intimidated by this Shakespearean actor and let him go on as he'd wanted… The same physical mannerisms that made Allen a successful stand-up comedian make him an awkward, amateurish actor, and most of the actors for whom he writes - with the exception of rare majestic talents like Martin Landau and Jerry Orbach in "Crimes and Misdemeanors" - make the capital error of now trying to mimic him. “…most of the actors for whom he writes… make the capital error of now trying to mimic him.” What movies/actors is this guy watching? Clueless… …David, a native of the Sheepshead Bay area of Brooklyn, specializes in finding comedy in the trivialities of life, with a ferocity that puts off critic Lee Siegel in The New Republic, who terms David's choleric fits "merely the anger of frustrated entitlement." I would agree that much of David’s shtick could be called the “anger of frustrated entitlement.” That’s actually an excellent phrase (what a surprise it's not Ivry's). And in lesser hands that anger may simply translate into annoying complaining. But imo David’s 'frustrated entitlement' is often hysterical. Should comedy writers restrict their writing to characters we can liken to the Dalai Lama? Now pay real close attention to this next one: Even HBO's "Curb" Web site, amid paeans of praise, offers an occasional dissent: "A bunch of screaming Jews apparently ad-libbing; it is not funny." Not only is Benjamin Ivry clueless and annoying when it comes to Woody Allen and seemingly comedy in general - he is apparently also a plagiarist. 5 years before Ivry wrote this piece for The Forward, James Kaplan write this on David and “Curb” for The New Yorker: "And amid the rapturous postings about “Curb” on HBO’s Web site (“the best show to hit tv in a long time”; “Larry David is the funniest, most brilliant, and most talented man on television, or possibly in entertainment”) lie voices of dissent: “Please retire this tedious program . . . a bunch of screaming jews apparently ad-libbing it is not funny.” Of course it’s not verbatim, but there’s too much here for Ivry not to have gotten this from Kaplan: he uses the same quote, he refers to the quote as “amid” just like Kaplan did, and he also refers to the quote as a “dissent” just as Kaplan did. In addition to plagiarizing, Ivry leaves out the fact that this quote he refers to is a “post” on the HBO website; seemingly from some jackass w/ anti-semitic tendencies. But the way Ivry’s written it, it sounds like it could be part of HBO’s network content or a review from some established publication. Wow. This guy is something else… When standup comedian Susie Essman shrieks profane insults at David's character in "Curb," she and other actors provide the superego, the out-of-control conscience that punishes his misbehavior. hey y'all! I'm Benjamin Ivry. Mind if I drop some more psychobabble jargon bullcrap? Here ya go! i'm like all smart 'n stuff... David's comedy derives from situations, such as when he invites a sex offender to a Seder, rather than from Allen's carefully honed and polished jokes. Ivry’s cluelessness is seemingly never-ending. Allen’s comedy doesn’t derive from situations? While Allen is certainly known for his great one-liners this in no way means that his comedy is not “derived from situations.” Not by a long shot. sorry to sound like a broken record here, but anyone who sees Allen as simply someone who cranks out jokes just doesn't know what they're talking about. Ivry’s vision seems to extend exactly one inch beyond his nose; and no further. and by the way, all this defense of Allen is coming from someone who grew up on Woody Allen movies starting from the age of 10 in '75 on through... however i also am one of his ardent fans who believes his films started to become somewhat repetitive, nearly recycled somewhere in the late 90's. i remember the experience of watching Celebrity in the theater as being a very strange experience indeed. until that point i'd seen every Allen film in the theater when it came out and had hugely enjoyed every single one. i didn't enjoy Celebrity and didn't know what to feel. it was truly an odd moment for me. and this is not to say that his movies beyond that point are bad. definitely not. but something un-nameable has changed, and he has definitely also been recycling jokes and scenarios. even a film like Match Point, which was perfectly fine, can be seen by someone like myself as a latecomer's Crimes And Misdemeanors. it's a weird thing. but we'll always have Paris... As for all the stuff written on Sacha Baron Cohen by Ivry in this article, I’ve already been labeled an anti-semite on this board. Getting too into what’s brought up in this article as relates to Cohen would likely give folks here a chance to pile on again. that's not worth it. not for this article…
  22. what are you referring to w/ ruined? his career? some particular of his own films? i don't think he ruined anything through his love of Bergman and other french and italian directors. i think he was inspired and influenced by them. i'd have more to say but i don't really know what you referred to/meant by "ruined..." i prefer his older films mainly because i think they're better films, and not just the funny ones. some of my favorites are the serious ones. and to be sure, i read the article posted/linked to from this thread on "self deprecating humor." wow was that a horrible article. so many problems to point out and tear down in there that i'll have to wait 'til tomorrow to post on it here because it'll take a bit of time and focus. i'm sure y'all can't wait... oh shit... was that "bet y'all can't wait" a self-deprecating remark on my part? or was it too aggressive and mean-spirited? does it mean i'm a self-hating jew? or worse, simply not funny? would freud prescribe me an eight ball and have me sleep off my aggression? when would i be able to sleep after snorting the blow? maybe i should call sarah silverman and see what she thinks? oh that's right... silverman says, "Deconstruction is the enemy of comedy." and i agree w/ her... until tomorrow...
  23. wow. that's quite an anecdote. do you remember what he actually said, as in a quote? could you paraphrase it? i'd be interested.
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