neveronfriday

Again, thanks Flurin! Re more recent postings, and that is the real kicker, for those living in the EU, Amazon Italy has had such drastic price reductions these past months that I have, for the first time in my life, dropped my cocktail(s) and fine dinner weekends (only four, to be honest) in favour of securing some of these boxed sets. Hah... I actually thought you were being sarcastic with *great*. While I love much of the repertoire, I'd say there's only five-- ten absolutely tops, in a pinch-- of those discs I'd recommend seperately (Goebel/MAK Telemann (& maybe Heinechen), Minkowski Handel). McCreesh, Gardiner, Pinnock have almost uniformly been outclassed though some Pinnock recordings were OK at the time. I'm surprised (as a "beginner"). I really enjoyed that set (perhaps more than many others).

I hate those n.n. papersleeve sets (this is apparently one of them) so I wouldn't go for it. I went for this one ( http://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B00AFOS7Z6/ref=oh_details_o04_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) when it was around Euro 39.- and am enjoying it very much. I know that fans of classical music look down with disdain on people who buy these heavily discounted monster sets, but this thread (special thanks to Flurin) plus some others around the Net allowed me to get a core classical collection together fast ... at next to no cost. The other day I picked up the Gould Bach box for around Euro 54 (on Amazon.it for a few seconds), the Julian Bream for "an apple and an egg" (as we say over here), plus a few others (especially excellent baroque music that I enjoy). If you are selective and actually read before you pull the "buy me now" trigger, right now seems to be the best time on covering your classical bases. I tried to make sure that I'm not doubling up that much and that the performances are above average and better, and so far ... I'm a happy camper. Thanks Flurin, and the many others who post here whenever they come across decent bargains and interesting sets. Much appreciated.

I already had those at preorder prices ... which were just a tiny bit more, as far as I recall.

Thanks for the heads up. I jumped on the DG All-Baroque Box. P.S.: 4.90 postage/shipping. Didn't people say that had gotten more expensive somewhere along the way? I guess they're just going to send it from amazon.de anyway ... which usually happens when I order from Italy or the UK. Thanks again, Flurin. Would have missed that one.

Living Stereo #2 just showed up. I have to say I have slightly mixed feelings about it, leaning a bit towards disappointment. Whereas Vol 1 had quite a few bonus tracks added to the various CDs, Vol. 2 takes a much purer original release approach (though no back cover notes on the sleeves like a true OJC release). There is some shuffling around of Reiner conducting Beethoven Symphony 1 & 9 to put #9 on one CD but then Symphony #1 is all by itself (at about 23 minutes). Frankly this is ridiculous, since this isn't an OJC release. I think the average CD length across the 60 CDs is probably 45 minutes. What bugs me in particular is a few of the Fiedler releases where there was an actual CD release with sensible pairings of bonus material and none of this was included in this set. It just seems like a missed opportunity and I am now not sure what to do about these Living Stereo CDs with material not in the #2 set, since I was really hoping to be able to de-accession them, but now I don't think I can. Agreed. But I got it cheap, so it was an OK purchase. What really pi**es me off are the wildly jumping prices (pre-order cheap, then not cheap, release price cheaper ... then shortly thereafter (much) more expensive and then, suddenly, ... much cheaper than the preorder for a minute or two. Or for a week. Or never again. Irritating pricing robots. The problem is that one never knows when something might go out of print in an instant ... or stay in print for eternity. First world problems.) P.S.: Still, if I consider what a lot of this music used to cost, these price-reduced (sometimes somewhat pedestrian) reissues are still a real bargain.

To close this particular train of thought down: Some of the material is available in (much) better quality. The problem is that it does not include alternate takes, bonus material, etc. So, if you want it all, like I do, you're stuck with what's currently available. I just decided to refrain this time ... once burned, twice shy. And, jazzbo, the polarity is definitely not the only problem if you try to reverse it. You're still stuck with mastering that pushes the trebbly aspects and narrows the soundstage ... when the polarity is reversed, only minor deficiencies get ironed out (a minor improvement in overall sound, plus, if you are lucky, a somewhat improved soundstage). That is on my system though, and many people's much more revealing ones, decent ones, better ones and whatnot might and will differ. A last thought: Most people who buy this stuff don't have the possibilty to do anything but twist a maximum of three knobs, at best ... and that's it. All of those are stuck with sub-par mastering. So, is music produced for those who have the ability to tweak the sh*t out of stuff or for those who can't, won't and haven't even thought of doing so? One step further: Is this mastered for the "elite" (with the right system) or for the average audience? The former can live with it, perhaps, the latter has to and will simply never know better. It's the latter aspect that contributes to a decline in "artistic", "sonic" or whatever value. To be quite brunt (and, I repeat what others have said before me), if you have only seen the Mona Lisa covered in fluorescent color by some hack, you won't know what it is/was really like, will you? In the end, it's really an academic question which most people couldn't give a sh*t about. I think it is depressing that sonic deficiencies aren't even recognized anymore today. But that's a whole different train of thought.

I don't expect electronic gear to save the day either but IF something has phase/polarity inverted, correcting it does improve the sound, reverses the treble/bass balance, restores the ambient information which defines a lot of the soundstage, etc. Sucks that these get released that way, but being able to correct it can improve enjoyment of the sound. At least it stopped me kvetching about these releases and allows me to actually use what i spent money on in these cases. ____ Absolutely valid point, certainly, but - as far as I know - reversed polarity is really the least (and altogether almost negligible) problem. Happens, but it is comparatively rare. What is common is mastering that just turns music into tin can sound. And THAT is only marginally (is that a word?) fixable. If a mastering engineer (one who was probably forced to do so ... that's why I would refuse to pile on him/her together with others) boosted the treble and applied all kinds of weird EQing to a recording there is only comparatively little you can do. Yes, I also try to make up for it by twiddling the knobs but, really, what's lost won't magically reappear. What you/I are doing is masking mastering/engineering decisions and there's only so much you can do to alleviate the problem(s) (plural, because usually there's more than one).

Question: the sound on the 1997 box wasn't very good, then? (I haven't had the chance to play my 2014 box yet, and I'm no audiophile - I've been listening to pre-1920 stuff lately, so "bearable" is enough for me). F Really, it's a matter of personal taste. Personally, I would choose other editions. BUT: My collection - and I hope I'm exaggerating here - consists of 50% stuff I bought to have the music (and I'm happy to have it), no matter what the sound quality. What really irks me though is that a lot of it I could have had in better quality. I was impatient, gullible, stupid. And today I don't want to reinvest the money. I'm not the type to buy seven editions of some CD to find the best-sounding one (and I don't have the cash either). Maybe you remember (don't know if you were around way back when) the mass of "24 BIT remastered" ZYX OJC CDs. When they were available from 2001 (German cheapo retailer) I bought several bags full of those. To be quite honest, a 20-year old herring in a 30-year old can sounds better than that shite. A true abomination. I didn't listen to good advice, bought it all ... and hate the world for it today. The same goes for the Verve Master editions. People on here warned me, time and again, and I bought them all. Dumb. The Bill Evans Complete set basically holds all of that stuff. If someone told me today to avoid it, I would (probably ignore him/her to have the music). It's all schizophrenic, really. There's a book in all of this somewhere.

22-bit - in the case of Verve - are 21 bits too many. Always.

I don't want to knock the music. Huge Evans fan here who likes every scrap he finds. Hell, I bought a ton of the stuff just for the extras, the additional takes, etc. (lots of Verve editions) Doesn't change the fact that Verve has done injustice (soundwise) to a load of material they regurgitated since 2000+

@jazzbo Like I said above, I'm not the type to expect electronic gear to save the day. I have a (comparatively) cheap (Marantz PM-78 and Dynaudio 1.8MKII) setup which I chose that time to make mediocre stuff sound a bit warmer and better, but comparing those Verve masters mentioned above to earlier editions (the ones available) on my system just tells me that they aren't worth the money. I know I sound like a Hoffmanite, which I'm not, but it really comes down to this: Comparing the Verve Master (and whatever they cooked up subsequently or previously) editions to, f.ex., the Dennis Drake Ella Fitzgerald and Oscar Peterson remasters just shows how bad the recent Verve editions were/are. I wasted a sh*tload of money on that stuff and no amount of knob twirling and whatnot will save them. It just makes them sound marginally better, at best. I guess a tube amp might improve things beyond my (warm) Marantz (A-class), but no amount of tweaking will give you back the soundstage ... which is completely ruined on most newer Verve editions which have a center-focused sound. In the end though, it all comes down to personal preference, and Verve later remasters don't even come close to mine. I have several hundred of those remasters lined up to be shot, sold or simply trashed (since nobody wants to pay more than a few cents for them anymore anyway ... unless they are rare and shrink-wrapped). YMMV (and probably will). Volkher (deus62)

I chime in here every 12 months or so ... I had the mouse pointer hover over the "buy me now" Complete Evans boxed set several times now. What stopped me is this (without wanting to ruin it for anyone, especially completists who don't give a hoot): The mastering is quite bad, IMHO. I know there are people on here who like to twiddle knobs to make the stuff sound better, but the Suhar Guhr (spelling?) and similar remasters (think Verve Master Edition and, partially, Verve Elite) ... suck in comparison to earlier editions. It pisses me off every single time I put those editions on ... harsh, brittle, trebbly, etc. Bill Evans and a ton of others deserve better. AND ... NO ... I'm not the audiophile geek (anymore) and I'm not a Hoffmanite (a**hole). It's just that those Verve remasters really do suck the life and ambiance out of the music. *sorry*

Tis indeed, but look at the "pretty good to very good" list in mjzee's most helpful overview, with which I agree ... alternatives would be aplenty in an ideal world, but as it is, there's some on Collectables (licensed, I guess) and some on Fresh Sound and the like ... and yes, I do have the official Pepper and Moore abd Paich discs. Also look at the other thread for plenty of info, including some discussion of sound that's not all that unfavorable. Thanks for the heads up!

It's Membran, isn't it? If it is ... meh.

a) The discographies were never removed and have been available non-stop (minus 56 minutes in 2012, as my provider's logs tell me). b) Isn't it unpinned? It should be. Without looking at it right now, the whole thread can probably be deleted. Note: Yes, the redirect was implemented on January 1st (not 2nd) to not have two sites online. Until that very moment, the discographies resided where they had always been (and still do, but the page will redirect you. It's a Google thing, to keep the "juice").

I guess it was a misunderstanding then. "Inactive" does not mean "gone". A simple click could have confirmed that. I guess the "has come to nothing" phrasing was what bothered me. There was quite a bit of work that went into those. Doesn't matter! They're still around for those interested (I don't keep statistics beyond a few months, but 11200 downloads since September of 2013 ... mostly by those asinine pirates, I would think. Although I used to block just about every rip-off site, I have given up. They multiply like fungus. That's why, at least, I haven't uploaded any cover scans or the like. Let those asshats find those for themselves).

I agree, this project has come to nothing. Pity, it looked promising. Why to nothing? That's a very strange comment (that I didn't see before). a) I have 54 discographies of out-of-print Mosaic boxed sets and Selects online, b) they have been online without interruption (I just didn't add any for quite a while), c) and continue to be available? For free. I absolutely agree that the thread does not have to be pinned, but ... ? P.S.: They now reside on deus62.com but have always been available on the other site linked to (and still are, but are redirected to the new site).

I do. Any questions? How much of it is classical music? I'm not so keen on crossover. More details here: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=239239 Well, here's a lsiting of what's in the box (from an Amazon.com review): 01-Robert-White-Sings-Beethoven 02-Saint-Saens-Carnival-of-the-Animals-Variations-on-a-Theme-of-Beethoven,-Op.-35-Polonaise,-Op.-77 03-Saint-Saens-and-Lalo-Cello-Concertos 04-Haydn-Cello-Concertos 05-Beethoven-Complete-Sonatas-for-Cello-and-Piano,-Vol.-1 06-Kreisler,-Paganini 07-Bach-Sonatas-for-Viola-da-Gamba-and-Harpsichord 08-Bach-The-Six-Unaccompanied-Cello-Suites 09-Bach-The-Six-Unaccompanied-Cello-Suites 10-Shostakovich-and-Kabalevsky-Cello-Concertos 11-Bolling-Suite-for-Cello-and-Jazz-Piano-Trio 12-Beethoven-Complete-Sonatas-for-Cello-and-Piano,-Vol.-2 13-Schubert-String-Quintet 14-Japanese-Melodies 15-Elgar-and-Walton-Cello-Concertos 16-Mozart-Divertimento,-K.-563 17-Brahms-Sonatas-for-Cello-and-Piano 18-Strauss-Don-Quixote-Schoenberg-Concerto 19-Beethoven-Complete-Sonatas-for-Cello-and-Piano,-Vol.-3 20-Dvorak-Cello-Concerto 21-Boccherini-Concerto-J.-C.-Bach-Sinfonia-Concertante-and-Grand-Overture 22-Mozart-Adagio-and-Fugue-in-C-Minor-Schubert-String-Quartet-No.-15 23-Schumann-Cello-Concerto-Fantasiestucke 24-Dvorak-Piano-Trios 25-Brahms-Double-Concerto,-Piano-Quartet 26-Shostakovich-Piano-Trio,-Cello-Sonata 27-Barber-and-Britten-Cello-Concertos 28-Strauss-and-Britten-Cello-Sonatas 29-Shostakovich-Quartet-No.-15Gubaidulina-Rejoice! 30-Anything-Goes-Stephane-Grappelli-and-Yo-Yo-Ma-Play-(Mostly)-Cole-Porter 31-Mozart-Serenade-No.-10,-Gran-Partita 32-Brahms-The-Piano-Quartets 33-Brahms-The-Piano-Quartets 34-Prokofiev-and-Rachmaninoff-Cello-Sonatas 35-Tchaikovsky-Gala-in-Leningrad 36-Hush 37-Prokofiev-Sinfonia-Concertante,-Tchaikovsky-Variations 38-Brahms-String-Sextets 39-Brahms-String-Sextets 40-Brahms-Sonatas-for-Cello-and-Piano 41-Schoenberg-Verklarte-Nacht,-String-Trio 42-Faure-Piano-Quartets 43-Made-in-America 44-Dvorak-in-Prague 45-Beethoven-and-Schumann-Piano-Quartets 46-Chopin-Piano-Trio,-Polonaise-brillante,-Cello-Sonata 47-The-New-York-Album 48-Immortal-Beloved 49-Brahms,-Beethoven,-and-Mozart-Clarinet-Trios 50-Dvorak-and-Herbert-Concertos-from-the-New-World 51-Schubert-Trout-Quintet,-Arpeggione-Sonata 52-Goldenthal-Fire-Water-Paper-A-Vietnam-Oratorio 53-Appalachia-Waltz 54-Lieberson-King-Gesar 55-Schubert-and-Boccherini-String-Quintets 56-Yo-Yo-Ma-Premieres 57-Mozart-The-Piano-Quartets 58-From-Ordinary-Things 59-Tan-Dun-Symphony-1997 60-Seven-Years-in-Tibet-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack 61-Mark-OConnor-Liberty 62-Soul-of-the-Tango-The-Music-of-Astor-Piazzolla 63-The-Cello-Suites--Inspired-by-Bach 64-The-Cello-Suites--Inspired-by-Bach 65-Korngold-and-Schmidt-Music-for-Strings-and-Piano-Left-Hand 66-Tavener-The-Protecting-Veil 67-Simply-Baroque 68-Brahms-Piano-Concerto-No.-2,-Cello-Sonata 69-Yo-Yo-Ma-Solo 70-Appalachian-Journey 71-Dvorak-Piano-Quartet,-Romantic-Pieces,-Sonatina 72-Simply-Baroque-II 73-John-Corigliano's-Phantasmagoria 74-Crouching-Tiger,-Hidden-Dragon-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack 75-Yo-Yo-Ma-Plays-the-Music-of-John-Williams 76-Silk-Road-Journeys-When-Strangers-Meet 77-Meyer-and-Bottesini-Concertos 78-Naqoyatsi-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack 79-Paris-La-Belle-Epoque 80-Obrigado-Brazil 81-Obrigado-Brazil-Live 82-Vivaldi-Cello 83-Isaac-Stern-Schubert,-Brahms,-Bach,-Mozart 84-Yo-Yo-Ma-Plays-Ennio-Morricone 85-Silk-Road-Journeys-Beyond-the-Horizon 86-Memoirs-of-a-Geisha-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack 87-New-Impossibilities 88-Yo-Yo-Ma-and-Friends-Songs-of-Joy-and-Peace 89-The-Bonus-Disc-1 90-The-Bonus-Disc-2 Quite a bit of both, classical, crossover ...

I do. Any questions? P.S.: Most of the CDs in the set, as far as I recall (I bought this many months ago) are the regular releases packaged in a positively huge boxed set. I bought it because the separate (re)issues would have cost more than the whole set. I can't remember what I paid for it (around 90 Euro?), but I jumped on it when the set came down from three trillion to affordable. Soundwise it's more than fine for me.

Has anyone had/will anyone have a chance to compare this set to the 2011 (I think it was) Amazon France "Complete Masters"? I know they were sourced from "lesser" quality material but I've heard the complete set several times and am quite happy with it. Somehow I get the feeling that this Mosaic set is not going to be such a major improvement (for me) to justify the cost + EU import (punitive) tariff. I'd rather spend those $160 and more on other material this time. P.S.: I think it was quite legitimate for Mosaic to source some of the material from available CDs. This is important music and if I understood correctly, it would have taken many more years to get hold of the metal masters? Jeez, some of us old fogeys will be dead and gone by then.

I was just researching this case in a different context, came upon this (very old) thread and saw that things were left to "hang in the air". Did a search, no more info on this board, it seems, so here's the rest for posterity (because I hate these kinds of cliff hangers I often chance upon around the Internet). Terry Howard was cleared of all charges: http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/61509/ray-charles-sound-engineer-cleared In February of 2010 he was killed in a car accident "[...] on the 5 freeway while heading home from Santa Cruz", when (apparently) "[...] another car contacted him causing him to drive off the 5 freeway. He was ejected from the van."

Still reading along regularly. Everything is fine.

I still have this old 2006 Sony/BMG box ...

The last of my heroes to step into the afterlife. They are all gone now. I started listening to his music when I was 4 or 5 years old, and I will continue to do so until they wheel me out of the ward, head-first. Thanks for an entire lifetime's worth of fabulous music and musicianship.

See my reply elsewhere just a few minutes ago.