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Posts posted by ep1str0phy

  1. Having not participated in a forum discussion with this degree of heat for some time, I'm (only sort-of) bemused by all this. Not a knock on OP, obviously, or really/necessarily any single poster here, but this reads to an outside observer like a baldfaced political debate. I admit that this probably isn't the proper place for meta commentary on board culture, but I've noticed quite a bit of covert politicization on here as of late--and yeah, understandably so, because interpersonal tension tends to roil over into even the most mundane things, and yesterday's mundane things (like casual internet commentary) seem to have become some kind of potshot-y battleground for the nation's soul.

    This thread may not be the best example, because the topic is inherently heated--but it hasn't escaped notice that folks have been using seemingly lackadaisical discussion as a vehicle for espousing sociopolitical rhetoric (and thereby, weirdly, attempting to contravene some kind of systematized strangulation of values). The funny thing to me is that the larger body of commentators here comprise the same few--and maybe I'm stretching here--demographically homogenous people who were having civil conversations about Mosaic sets and Lou Donaldson discographies maybe one or two years ago.

    Not that I'm saying that we should resist this kind of discussion, since it's a healthy part of the jazz and greater cultural narrative, but there's a bizarre, bitter irony in the regularization of culture warring on a jazz forum--in an era where the broader cultural resonance of the music is greatly diminished. 

  2. Crushing loss. I spent scarce little time with the man, but he left an indelible mark on my creative sensibility. The week or so he spent at Mills a little under ten years ago was one of the formative educational experiences of my entire life. I will absolutely never forget the duo concert he played with Roscoe the last night, which still figures among the most exciting nights of music I've ever had the privilege of experiencing. 

    Talk about a life changing life. Thank you for absolutely everything, sir. 

  3. 7 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:


    What the hell are you talking about?

    There's an enclave on the left--one which I do inhabit rather frequently--that is eager, and maybe overeager, to protest microagressions. I feel like a lot of the proportional response to this phenomenon has something to do with trying to dismiss or diffuse what is perceived as oversensitivity, so we bandy about terms like triggered and outrage culture to further entrench ourselves in given behaviors. 

    I do wonder whether most of the dialogue regarding cultural representation and misrepresentation is of secondary value in a political climate where lives are (literally) at risk. As someone who works very often in Asian-American jazz circles, I'm attuned to the intersection between the musical work and the cultural work, and while a big part of me respects Terumasa as a trumpet player (even as I question his actions in this instance), the other part of me is thinking, "how long in this thread before there's some kind of racialized pun?" So while I wasn't disappointed in this instance, I can also acknowledge the relative harmlessness of dad humor in an era where an ill-timed protest means either avoiding my local market or being prepared to engage in active self-defense.

    I know this isn't a political forum so I'll stop there and hope I'm understood--otherwise, hey, find me elsewhere or let's take it to PMs.

  4. Bay Area local and active performer. Bebop's recommendations are legit, and if you're looking for a more comprehensive listing that hews closer to pure improv/free jazz, check out this listing: http://www.bayimproviser.com/

    I'll shamelessly plug my own stuff and say that I'm playing the Starry Plough in Berkeley this Friday (9/29) with my primary project Grex and two very interesting groups (torch song project Qualia and the the unbelievable Sacramento-based avant prog band Gentleman Surfer). Monday 10/2 I play the Make-Out Room in San Francisco with Scott Amendola (TJ Kirk, Nels Cline Singers) and bassist Jason Hoopes (the bassist in Fred Frith's current trio), Thursday 10/5 I play Berkeley Art Museum with Scott's ridiculous big band (featuring Ben Goldberg, Fred Frith, members of ROVA, and more). Not sure when you're leaving, but I play the aforementioned Bird and Beckett on Sunday, 10/15 with Lewis Jordan and Music at Large (Lewis was in the band United Front with Anthony Brown, Mark Izu, and George Sams).

    Other general places to check out--and where the "meat" of the scene is, as far as genre intersection and the really innovative stuff is concerned--include the Luggage Store Gallery in SF, Studio Grand in Oakland, and Octopus Salon in Oakland. A lot of the medium-sized rock clubs are also pretty good hubs for interesting music--e.g., the Elbo Room, Hemlock Tavern, the Night Light. Bebop's list of jazz clubs covers a lot of the big ones, but I'll also add Woods Bar and Brewery. FWIW, Duende no longer exists, and Cafe Van Kleef is pretty unreliable these days. 

  5. Hey, guys-

    Sorry for the radio silence on this--I've been on tour and there's been a great deal of vagueness on this issue in the past few days. That being said, it looks like Roscoe is safe! Here's an email I just received (an open letter--many of my colleagues got the same one):

    Dear All:

    Mills College has decided not to terminate my current three-year 
    contract. I would like to take this time to thank everyone for all your 
    letters and words of support. I am honored and humbled by the time and 
    effort each of you have taken to stand with me, and I’m truly inspired 
    by your impassioned, coordinated efforts to loudly proclaim your respect 
    for the work being done by myself and my colleagues at Mills. My hope is 
    that your actions will pave a way for us all to move forward with 
    increasing focus, during this ever-crucial period for music, art, and 
    other creative endeavors. I feel that all of you have demonstrated how 
    powerful we can be when we contribute our efforts towards a common goal, 
    and I encourage each of you to seek out and seize opportunities 
    generated in this important era we are now living in.

    I consider myself incredibly fortunate to have had the support of 
    teachers, students, musicians, music lovers, and all others who spoke 
    out to defend the value of creative music and the arts at-large. That 
    said, I would like to acknowledge those of my fellow professors who 
    Mills chose to let go, in spite of the outpouring of support for them 
    and alternate plans proposed by dedicated individuals seeking a more 
    favorable outcome. A great number of you put so much work into trying to 
    persuade the college that firings were not a necessary component of 
    their Financial Stabilization plan. Again, I want to express how 
    grateful I am to you for taking the time to write on our behalf and/or 
    show your support at public hearings held at Mills. I truly wish the 
    outcome had not left anyone who worked for the college by the wayside.

    Though this has proven to be a disruptive period of time for me, I am 
    glad to put it behind me and look forward to resuming my work as a 
    composer, performer, and pedagogue. I thank all of you for helping to 
    provide me with secure footing, so that I may now devote my time to 
    practicing, writing, preparing for next year’s classes, and coordinating 
    exciting events like the upcoming concert of my new orchestral works at 
    the De Young Museum in September. I’m thrilled to see my music performed 
    and enjoyed by people like you, who wrote in to make known your passion, 
    curiosity, and creativity. I cannot thank each of you enough.

    All the best,

    Roscoe Mitchell

  6. 1 hour ago, paul secor said:

    Okay - from your point of view, what can we here - as a group and individually - do, if anything?

    In all seriousness, it's a matter of rousing discontent and getting the word out. If anyone has a line on a news outlet in the Bay or elsewhere, getting an article published helps (I've been working on this). Emailing the parties in my first post is very useful if you're an alum, but outside pressure from others (whether it be press or fellow musicians or fans) can't hurt. Most of the dialogue has been on Facebook, but communicating about this on Twitter, Instagram, and so on is useful. This is in many ways a PR battle.

    As for what you say, Jim--yes, I agree that the world does not share our outlook on life, but Mills has proven in many ways that it is a hospitable environment for that kind of outlook. It's astonishing just how many world class musicians have occupied Roscoe's chair over the years--Braxton, Xenakis, Lou Harrison, Pauline Oliveros, Curran, and so on. The systematic disassembling of that kind of positive atmosphere is troubling, since so few outlets are left. 

  7. Here's an article that clarifies a bit of Chris's statements (above): https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/2017/06/07/jazz-pioneer-roscoe-mitchell-marked-for-dismissal-at-mills-college/

    Lest it go unsaid, the issue has nothing to do with retirement and something to do with whether or not a musician of Roscoe's caliber should have the right to dictate the terms of his own continued employment and exit. 

    As the article mentions, this would effectively end the Milhaud Chair--a position started in 1978 that has brought a series of prestige hires to the institution. These individuals have been hugely important to the musical legacy of the department--Roscoe, Anthony Braxton, Pauline Oliveros, Lou Harrison, Xenakis, Alvin Curran, and Joelle Leandre among them. These are hands on teachers who have made an invaluable impact on the dynamics of the department.

    A lot of the value of the department--the graduate program in particular--is predicated on students having the opportunity to work with these musicians. There is reason to be concerned for what Roscoe's possible dismissal means for both the quality of education in the department as well as the appeal for potential enrollees and the viability of future hires. Less immediately relevant but true: as one of my fellow alums pointed out, Roscoe is one of the most prestigious educators of color on the entire Mills payroll--and there's already a fraught history with this dating back to before he was hired. 

    Two things to keep in mind: (1) mass outcry stands to make a difference in this instance, as it has in the past, and (2) this doesn't just have to do with Roscoe, whose legacy is unimpeachable regardless of the outcome of this debacle. 

    This is in many ways the outcome of a long-waged war over the soul of both this school and the broader Bay Area. I'm an LA kid at heart but I consider myself an actual local, having arrived well over a decade ago and before the recent tech boom enveloped SF. Trust me, there has been tension with the school over overpaid admin positions and crappy business decisions for the entirety of my relationship with Mills.

    It seems with every passing year that those in a position of influence out in these institutions are more and more oblivious to the content of culture and more preoccupied with keeping pace with the playground of gentrification that so much of the Bay has morphed into as of late.

  8. Maybe you guys have read the James Newton interview posted on Do the Math--among other things, he parallels the conservative turn in the politics of the 80's with the "conservative" turn in the music. I do think that in a financially conservative environment all sorts of art--including less demanding/historical fare--is imperiled, but there's something to be said for the notion that music that is particularly "strange" or "challenging" is often the first on the chopping block when this kind of stuff happens.

    Bebop hits the nail on the head when mentioning the institutional importance of the college, and it's also worth noting that the balance of the arts programs at the school is very delicate. It's one of only a handful of national institutions where music that is (sometimes) self-consciously esoteric is given an environment to flourish. I cannot understate the value of spending one hour free improvising, the next running tonal analysis of Brahms, and the next woodshedding Nonaah with Roscoe giving me tips in person.

    That's insane--and it's also the sort of thing that helps develop craft, rigor, and discipline. It's also helped me develop the tools to sustain life as a working musician, and I would not hesitate to send another burgeoning professional in this music to that same school. These programs--here, at Cal Arts, at Wesleyan--are rare, and they're worth protecting as both institutions of rare fabric and infrastructural viability. 

  9. (Clearly) I speak on no one's behalf other than my own, but this mayhem comes on the heels of a series of deeply perplexing and questionable logistical and financial decisions on the part of the administration. This cost cutting is nothing new--the most public of these measures being the undergraduate dance department, which was saved by the raised ire of many alums and compassionate/interested parties--but it comes on the heels of years of questionable financial allocations with regard to both failed enterprises (the business school) and upper administration salaries. The tactical mishaps are manifold and extend far outside of the realm of these capital letter issues. 

    The idea to make the school co-ed is really strange--and I say this as a man who was only granted admission into the school because the graduate music department is, well, co-ed. Stuff like this and the business school reflect the administration's extreme obliviousness to what makes the school unique--i.e., that it has long been a bastion for a certain kind of liberal arts education and (literal) psychology. Turning it into just another community college might not even save the school--it runs the risk of driving off both enrollees and faculty who have an interest in the intimacy and overriding philosophy of the institution. 

    The long and short of it is that efficiently functioning entities like the music department have been saddled with the shit situation of the larger school's financial woes. The secret history of the place is that Mills College (and folks like Roscoe and Fred and Braxton and Zeena and so on) have been feeding the domestic creative music community for freaking years now. The broader list of Mills music grads both on the West Coast and elsewhere (NY in particular) is actually pretty mind-boggling--comparable to Wesleyan, for perspective. 

  10. Hey, folks-
    I know there's likely an open thread on Roscoe somewhere on this board--and out of deference and respect to the admins, please feel free to move as necessary. This issue is fairly urgent/critical, so I thought it necessary to grant it as much exposure as possible.
    As many of you may know, I'm a Mills College alum--I was in the performance MFA, and I had the privilege of studying with and among the likes of William Winant, Chris Brown, Maggi Payne, Zeena Parkins, and many others. I worked very closely with Fred Frith and Roscoe Mitchell, and the time I spent with those two has greatly informed a lot of my subsequent endeavors.
    Mills is undergoing some pretty severe financial troubles--a lot of this, honestly, tied to some terrible and very public business decisions and gross mismanagement dating back to my time and possibly earlier. All that being said, there have always been some tremendous people and minds working at the college, and since they're in such dire straits, it's basically open season on longterm faculty. Roscoe is apparently being targeted for dismissal.
    I know that Roscoe must mean a lot to many of you here (for musical and/or personal reasons), and many of his recent creative endeavors have been tied to resources and relationships fostered at the school. Roscoe has been a big part of the prestige of the institution the past decade or so--not, obviously, the other way around. Roscoe would be Roscoe either way; Mills College without Mr. Mitchell would not mean the same thing to its student body or faculty. 
    Please spread the word and consider the words of Chris Brown (added below, for reference). 
    Subject:  Roscoe Mitchell targeted for dismissal at Mills College
    I am hoping to reach everyone who has studied with Roscoe Mitchell
    at Mills College, or who has otherwise been positively affected by his presence
    at Mills and in the Bay Area, to inform that as part of its Financial Stabilization Plan
    Mills has targeted his postion as well as the jobs of 10 other ranked and/or tenured faculty
    for elimination, effective this July.  I am requesting that letters of protest for this action,
    and support for Roscoe in his position at Mills be sent to the following administrators
    as soon as possible:
    Beth Hillman, President  of Mills College  email: ebeth@mills.edu
    Chinyere Oparah, Dean of Faculty  email: jcoparah@mills.edu
    Katie Sanborn, Chair of the Board of Trustees email: ksanborn@mills.edu
    Please address the importance of Roscoe Mitchell to your education at Mills,
    and describe how you feel his dismissal will affect the interest of other potential
    students in studying music at Mills.  Including your personal experiences of
    Roscoe at Mills will be very valuable.  
    The history of financial problems at Mills is a long one, but this proposed solution
    radically strikes at the heart of its reputation for innovation and excellence in the arts.  Roscoe
    has been a leading composer, performer, and teacher since the 1960s when he
    was a founding member of the AACM and the Art Ensemble of Chicago.  His influence
    on contemporary music has been strong and deep, both nationally and internationally.
    Most recently his works for symphony orchestra have been performed by BBC sponsored
    concerts in Scotland, in Iceland, New York, Bologna, and more.  It has been
    an absolute gift to have him as a colleague in the Music Department.  Please help
    us to appeal the plan to dismiss him from our community!
    Chris Brown
    Professor of Music and
    Co-Director of the Center for Contemporary Music (CCM)

  11. Hey, all-


    I haven't posted with great avidity lately--and late notice, I know--but it occurs to me now that this project may be of interest to some of you. My art rock trio Grex, alongside LA trumpeter Dan Clucas, is rearranging A Love Supreme.


    Why A Love Supreme? We're taking the opportunity to reassess what it means to play a tribute--to take something impossibly universal and iconic and make it new and personal. 


    It's a challenge masquerading as a Catch-22--i.e., you either try to make a personal statement of of music that is already, itself, deeply personal, or you make impersonal music that compromises the integrity of the composition. Mostly Other People Do the Killing ran headfirst into oncoming traffic by taking semi-sacred music (Kind of Blue) and doing absolutely nothing with it--the end result being that they both solved the Catch-22 (above) and satisfied absolutely no one.


    My alternate solution was to not solve the problem at all--that is, to reduce the music to what I perceived to be the germ of itself and write something completely new. Sitting in the volcanic aftermath of this music is absolutely everything that is impregnable 50+ years after the fact--stuff like basic structure, harmonic mechanics, and, yes, sincerity. I've called it a "non-tribute" before, and I hold to this--in a culture that often treats original music with suspicion and canonical music with almost scientific distance, this is neither of those things. A Love Supreme/Not A Love Supreme.




    Grex Plays A Love Supreme feat. Song & Dance Trio 

    Saturday May 27, 8:00pm (7pm doors)

    @ California Jazz Conservatory (2087 Addison Street, Berkeley, CA 94704)

    $15 cover

    Tickets: https://cjc.edu/concerts/?eid=20122


    Grex Plays A Love Supreme w/Byron Colborn, Kyle Motl (SD)

    Sunday, May 28, 7pm

    @ Gold Lion Arts (2773 Riverside Blvd, Sacramento, CA 95818



    Grex: http://grex.bandcamp.com

    Song & Dance Trio: https://karlevangelista.bandcamp.com/album/live-at-kingmans-ivy-room

    Byron Colborn: https://www.soundcloud.com/byron-colborn

    Kyle Motl: http://kylemotl.com

  12. "women are delicate" and "I have experienced with other women, however, a kind of going overboard to try and assert the Yang part of themselves, more so than necessary, to the point of abandoning their own delicacy as women. I worked with a pianist who would do this and I would mention it in a real professional way that she was neglecting that part of her nature."  are not even the same sentiment, although maybe to today's ears they are?

    I mean, I've been programmed (mostly by self) to believe that a balance within one's self is a good thing, that the more balnced you were, the more, uh...balanced a person you would be.. Now, if it was Joe Hardon telling some chick to not be so rough, ok, that's gonna be ALL kinds of WTF?, but it's not Joe Hardon, it's Joe Henderson, himself a player who was not unaware of the different elements to be found inside, including delicacy. I get that times change, and so do people's perceptions of both inside and outside, but I'd hate to think that there's still no room for artist-to-artist heart-to-hearts about projections of personality, and "i don't know that what you're playing is really all of who you are, what do you think?", I mean, yeah, that's a really limited-access zone for a conversation, but...those are talks that can be had, and Joe Henderson would not have been somebody I would would exclude from that access. ok? Unless you're going to be one of those "fuck everybody, this is who i am, if you can't handle it, fuck off, yeah, this means you Joe Henderson, you're part of everybody, EVERYBODY, understand?" We all know people like that, and how do they end up? So determined to not be pigeonholed that they end up unable to simply fit in. Anywhere. Ever. Wearing a perpetual Personality Condom. Maybe that's the right approach for these times in which we live in, but I'm old, don't plan on living another 61 years, and really don't see going there now.

    Nor do I ever plan on "clitoris" becoming a verb. No in this lifetime.


    I may in fact be looking at this through a more contemporary lens (i.e., applying modern standards to "premodern" sentiments), but I also think that that's instructive with regard to this particular conversation. 

    Part of the reason that this Glasper incident exploded so horrifically is that Iverson was reluctant to editorialize the interview. He even invoked Notes and Tones in one of the response posts ("That's the tradition I want to be in, and frankly the tradition I most respect: "Warts and all."), the implication being that honesty affords is its own sort of accolade. That's fair and well, and I think that a music entrenched in complicated racial, political, sexual, etc. dynamics benefits from a degree of candor--but, and I'm sure many will agree, contextualization has always been important. I mean, that Art Blakey quote about Buddy Rich ("The only way he can swing is from a rope.") is absolutely incendiary, but it sounds far less militant--natural, even--within the framework of the actual interview. 

    Apropos of that--and to add some actual nuance to my initial criticism--Joe Henderson, like Blakey, gets a pass, sure. Henderson's music emanates from a historical and social continuum, a time period, and performance practice that necessitates that one address gender equality as exceptional rather than obvious.

    In terms of what Joe actually says within the context of that conversation--quizzical at best, at least for 2017. Martin was prompting Henderson, so the weirdness is dialogic--but the fact that the conversation shifted so quickly to softness vs. hardness, manhood vs. womanhood, delicacy vs. indelicacy, etc. is unfortunate. When he talks about the pianist who would assert the "Yang" part of herself to the degree that she was "neglecting" her own delicacy as a woman--he's basically saying she's a basher, yes? I can't imagine him saying that J.C. Moses, or Beaver Harris, or Bobby Battle, etc. "brought too much manhood to the table"--he'd probably just say that that dude was heavy-handed or something. 

    My problem isn't with Joe, who is comes across as presciently progressive within the context of his hiring practices--it's more the tenor of the conversation, and the notion that, again, unrepentant honesty is its own biblical fact/is its own virtue, which is bullshit. 

  13. FWIW, I think the issue isn't so much that there are too few women participating in the music as with the lack of recognition and perspective accorded the tremendous number of women who are actively performing jazz and improvised music in the modern day. I'd say a solid 75% of projects I've participated in as of late have featured at least one woman on the bandstand, and that's often incidental rather than deliberate. 

    If I had to guess--and I could be wrong here--but a lot of this maybe/probably has to do with the dint of jazz scholarship and and the vestiges of jazz hypermasculinity in and among performers, critics, and promoters. If we're in the business of fetishizing midcentury music, the traces of midcentury values are not far behind. We'd like to live in the 21st century and say that people are hired without regard to gender or race or creed or whatever, but, well... 

    The "women are delicate" thing is also super weird and archaic sounding to me--i.e., women aren't bass players or drummers, they're usually piano players, and so on. That phenomenon itself is embedded in extant social prejudices regarding what it is or isn't proper for a woman to do in this society. Try telling Myra Melford or Joanne Brackeen that they should be playing delicately, jesus.

    Also--also--lest this devolve into a "white males have had their day"-type thing--as a (male) POC, I recognize that "social justice railroading" often contravenes fair and efficient dialogue, and that discussions that devolve into accusation and retaliation do not equate to amelioration or positive change. 

    In this instance, it's not about fairness per se so much as accuracy and representing the world as it is. 21st century jazz is often way more diverse, equal, and colorful than these kinds of debates--and, for that matter, the "dominant jazz narrative"--would suggest.

  14. 2 hours ago, Guy Berger said:

    There were lots of responses by women musicians and fans on twitter and on Facebook.  The reason "most of the discussion" seemed like "just a bunch of men yelling at each other about feminism" isn't a signal that women weren't interested/engaged in the discussion - it's that we're only hearing the people with the biggest megaphones, who happen to be men. :(

    Well, right--and I should probably clarify what I mean. Yes, there was a significant volume of women penning think pieces and responses in the wake of the Glasper drama, but the public visibility of these responses was relatively low. To compound this, the level of discourse across the board was pretty abstract and often messy. The Michelle Mercer piece was pretty widely traded, but the women in the article were random Facebook commentators, of all things--Iyer, meanwhile, was quoted in name and written about at (sort-of) length. Sarah Deming's made the rounds, but that was a woman addressing her husband's very public crisis--and not some sort of comprehensive essay meant to balance the volume of responses from male musicians and writers (nor did it mean to be). 

    This take is probably pretty reductionist, I admit--but this debacle says as much about the state of 21st century jazz journalism as it does remind us of some of the embedded gender inequities in the music. It was like that BAM episode all over again. The course of this broader discussion was way more about public reprisal than ameliorating any social inequities or righting the imbalanced coverage of women in the music. 

    Please tell me I'm wrong, because I'd love to think that this discussion led to the start of a new jazz festival centered on women composers, or that the next time a prominent interviewer who receives Glasper's awkward thoughts on the place of women in jazz, he or she sees fit to follow-up by interviewing an actual woman in jazz. Or maybe, you know, glass houses and all that, we can talk about why people having discussions about feminism and progressivism tend to record almost exclusively with male musicians, and so on. 

  15. 59 minutes ago, sonnyhill said:


    I also thought that Iverson's knee-jerk post on Mary Lou Williams in reaction to criticism that he had not featured a woman on his blog was ill-considered.  In my opinion, the Mary Lou Williams post operated to support claims that he was sexist.  The post suggested that only a firestorm of criticism would prompt him to post about a woman artist and that he would have never done so organically.

    While Mary Lou Williams is great, she has been dead for a long while.  In my opinion, Iverson would have been better served by responding to the criticism by speaking with a few woman musicians who are around today and getting their takes on the Glasper controversy.  That would have made for good reading and probably would have extinguished some of the fires that he unsuccessfully tried to put out.  I believe that he might have discovered that women musicians have greater perspective and are generally much less predisposed to outrage than you might believe if you hang out on Twitter too much. 



    I feel like this is 100% correct--I don't have much to add, I just wanted to say that. What began as a quizzical and kind of off-color interview exploded downward into hole digging and a bunch of ill-conceived apologies. Again, Iverson wasn't under any mandate to cover woman musicians in the first place, but the Williams post just seemed to reinforce the fact that that realm was kind of a social and critical blind spot for the Do the Math blog. I'd love to hear responses from some women in the community--I felt like most of the discussion was, in the most circular of senses, just a bunch of men yelling at each other about feminism. 

  16. 1 hour ago, sonnyhill said:

    I also did not dig Vijay Iyer piling on Iverson when he was down.  How many women instrumentalists has Iyer featured on his recordings?  There is indeed still much work to be done with respect to inclusivity in jazz, but I think making an example out of Iverson was grossly unfair. 

    This is kind of worth some discussion, but not just here--it demands a degree of scrutiny from the actual performing music community in New York and elsewhere. I stayed very, very far away from this part of the issue when the debate was at its most raging, because heated accusations and developing meaningful, dialogic relationships with other musicians do not mix. 

    The sad, practical reality of personal comportment in professional jazz music is often just that--kind of whack, sanctimonious, and unreflective. There's a bunch of stuff about glass houses and looking like a fool that--and I'll only speak for myself here--I'm not interested in participating in. I hope that others, many more esteemed than I, can operate on the same frequency. 

    There as a useful point that Iverson has classically only real been interested in documenting and discussing a particular locus of jazz performance, and so nurturing some sort of panoptic scholarship isn't really his responsibility. On the other hand, Iverson has developed a critical voice in this music that in some way outsizes his instrumental contributions, so a degree of self-awareness would be kind of neat.

    I saw some very well-respected musicians (people for whom I harbor deep personal respect) piling on Iverson in some pretty unfair ways. I heard the accusation that he never recorded with a female musician, which is patently untrue:


  17. It bears some notice that every time I run into a group of <30 year old jazz musicians, they invariably know who the Bad Plus is. I admit that my sample size may not be large enough, of course, but it's always "yes" to the Bad Plus, Glasper, Badbadnotgood, Kneebody, and a handful of other bands in that age/peer group--and "no" to ranking critical fare like Vijay Iyer, Roscoe Mitchell, or Myra Melford. Every time. Bill Frisell gets an "oh yeah, I know who that is" if you're lucky.

    That's absolutely not a knock on either that sub 30 age group or any of the musicians identified here, only a stray observation that, whether we like it or not, people like the Bad Plus are shaping the perceptions of the next wave(s) of young jazz musicians in a very direct fashion. On a personal creative level, I think that it's all neither here nor there--practical knowledge of Julius Hemphill's music was always going to be a fringe thing regardless of era--but it has made me sit up and pay attention to a lot of this populist, kind-of trendy jazz that prevails now. 

  18. I was very pleasantly surprised to see this board avoid the Glasper quagmire--it was embarrassing for everyone involved, and the only positive to come of it was an earnest discussion about the visibility of women in jazz. Glasper said some dumb stuff that he probably didn't and/or doesn't care to reflect too much on, and Iverson may have gotten a little too entrenched in his attempt to refrain from editorializing the interview. It looked for a moment like Iverson was making excuses for Glasper--and maybe he was, to a degree--but it just exploded out of hand. 

    The fact that the tenor of the discussion shifted quickly from analytical discussion into the realm of hysterical remonstration and hamfisted non-apology says a lot about the ludicrous state of dialogue that has consumed so much of jazz culture as of late. Glasper was never going to care--and will never care--about this dialogue as much as his critics did and do. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't call bullshit on it, only that (maybe) our passions and intellectual resources would have been better spent doing any number of things--like, for example, investing some bandwidth in conducting the interviews with female musicians that Iverson is for some reason failing to book, or maybe promoting the scores of female led or female inclusive projects that seem to get buried under perpetual coverage of Glapser and the Bad Plus. A few people got it right: "Deeds, not words."

    On the other hand, I'll never understand the factional warfare that surrounds the Bad Plus--even a cursory listen to their recordings will convey the fact that the music has a degree of ambition and technical sophistication that is closer in character to jazz school Young Lionisms or the oversized acoustic jazz of the 70's than it does the Yellowjackets. I dig that the objections are aesthetic, but I just can't see how the music is any more offensive in its space than Ramsey Lewis, Vince Guaraldi, or Brad Mehldau's more treacly moments.

    I do, however, understand the objection about how music like this tends to consume the broader conversation in a very black hole-like fashion. In the spirit of the Glasper imbroglio, you could (instead) listen to:

    Carla Bley, Myra Melford, Alice Coltrane, Mary Halvorson, Joanne Brackeen, Geri Allen, Renee Rosnes, Toshiko Akiyoshi, Marilyn Crispell, Amina Claudie Myers, Tomeka Reid, Jane Ira Bloom, Lisa Mezzacappa, Ingrid Laubrock, Beth Custer, Zeena Parkins, Ava Mendoza, Mary Lou Williams, Lil Hardin Armstrong, Terri Lyne Carrington, Regina Carter, Susie Ibarra, Joelle Leandre, and so on.

    (I think I limited myself to instrumentalists, and I'm sure others can fill in some blanks.)

  19. 2 hours ago, sgcim said:

    Another kid, also an organist for his church, who could walk bass lines with the foot pedals,also did some hip-hop sessions. He could blow away me and other professional jazz musicians i used to bring down to the school with just blues scale licks. I got him lessons with Roy Ayers pianist, Mark Adams, and now he's playing more than blues scale licks.

    Hopefully kids like that will change the music for the better

    I mean, I hope that's something we can all agree on. 

    This kind of blew me away when I first heard it--nothing particularly special or innovative from a "jazz technical perspective," but definitely unexpected:

    Glasper is playing these very idiomatic quartal harmonies, and the horns are on this young lion/80's Marsalis brothers kick. The excitement isn't so much with the content as with the fact that it's the second track on an enormous hip-hop record--and Kendrick asked for it. So much of the lexicon of jazz/hip-hop collaboration is this boring, self-conscious beast, and and it's kind of breathtaking hearing a cutting-edge MC dig into the backwaters of jazz with intention and excitement. I'd heard that Lamar's next album was supposed to be a left turn into less esoteric "hardcore" fare, and both the jazz fan and the hip-hop fan in me got hit with a wave of disappointment.

    To put things another way, the part of me that would like nothing better than to play a casual gig or spin Grant Green records all day is still very much happy that I could hit virtually any rehearsal or session and call for a Dilla shuffle feel without being met with blank stares. But, you know, I like Art Blakey, too. 

  20. Sgcim, thanks for that--that I can wrap my head around. I admit that the implications of automization are way more convoluted than the practice of automization, and I'd imagine that most self-respecting musicians would rankle at the idea that we'd one day be replaced, wholesale, by the materials with which we're supposed to be creating.

    I do question the degree to which electronic instrumentation has consumed the landscape, since on an experiential and observational level I can't see live performers going anywhere any time soon. Wasn't this the fear provoked by the inception of the synthesizer? And yet I can't imagine that the historical use of mellotron is for anything other than the specific effect of synthetic strings--e.g., "Strawberry Fields Forever" or even something as esoteric as "Water Torture" on the second Mwandishi album. Even the use of the Moog by Dick Hyman or Wendy Carlos is meant to be stylized in character--those sounds posit an alternative to the piano or harpsichord rather than an outright replacement.

    The other big fear of mechanization is the economic issue I mention above, and I have no idea how to quantify the lasting effects of synthesizers or drum machines on the business of making music. Setting aside the other relevant factors (gentrification, streaming, etc.), isn't it true (as stated in that video that rostasi posted) that we need people to program the robots? I see an expansion in the repertoire of musical skills that are both offered and asked for across the board--people to play the synthesizers, to man the trigger pads, to program their own interfaces, and so on. And then we're back in the realm of talking about automization as a tool rather than a dictate.

    If folks are left cold by hip-hop--yeah, I hear that--and as a fan of a lot of hip-hop, I recognize the historical limitations of the genre and the many ways (not just musical, but also social, political, aesthetic, and soon) that it can be perceived as objectionable.

    The idea of the "cold steady beat," though, is fraught. The sort of icy drum sounds characterized by the 808 are still there--in trap music, electro pop, IDM, and even the more creatively nuanced, hugely theatrical alternative hip-hop that has prevailed in the past several years. That being said, even the mainstream has had a taste for and fetishization of organic drum sounds and classic R&B for a while. G-Funk was a big deal in the 90's and I don't think that much of that music has aged well outside of attitude and social relevance--the Parliament lifts on The Chronic border on cover act schlock and are more important for what they managed to do than for how they actually sound. 

    But--and returning to the theme of instruments as tools--sampled content can sound pretty fresh and nuanced in skilled hands. I'm sure there are people here who won't dig this and/or don't get it, but J Dilla is largely responsible for disassociating beat music from quantization, and he had a panoptic knowledge of the mechanics of multiple genres--sampling at this level is as much about developing coherent, living collage as it is about providing a canvas for miscellaneous lyrical content. You can be sure that the drum feel here is thoroughly developed and calculated--from the timbres to the envelopes of the transients to the shuffle of the eighth notes to the actual drum pattern and intensity of attack:


    And speaking of P-Funk rips, this is what happens after Dilla's logics are thoroughly digested and reanimated in a hybrid synthetic/live context. George Clinton even shows up. The producer, fwiw, is Alice Coltrane's grand-nephew: