Guy Berger

One thing that is ironic about your "device"/"language" distinction (on target), btw, is I read an interview where Branford Marsalis made the thoughtful comment that Led Zeppelin sounded the way they did because they listened so closely to Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson, and that someone who listened to Led Zeppelin would end up sounding like Whitesnake. What does Branford Marsalis's comment imply about... Branford Marsalis?

I'm probably responsible for the use of the term "marketing", for better or for worse. IMHO maybe that's not the perfect term. But it does feel like there was an institutional effort to push this narrative. On a much smaller scale this happens all the time in jazz. Think of young musicians who (often totally legitimately) get a brief period of hype, then either develop a less flashy career or just fade away. Yikes! And wasn't Robert Palmer "one of the good guys"?

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, fun birthday gift (or a really cringe-y corporate event, though cringe is "on brand" in that area). And I certainly don't begrudge artist/celeb eagerness to rake in more $$$. To some extent this is a mass commercialization of a hobby that really rich people already engage in anyway which I also think is good. (Pop star X playing at billionaire Y's party.) On the other hand, the faux-friendship framing is a little creepy

I know this is dicey territory, but pedantically - my understanding is that Israelis of Palestinian/Arab ethnicity are getting vaccinated (they are Israeli citizens - though there may be inequity much like in the US with disadvantaged groups), Palestinians living in the occupied territories are not. (Though there are certainly questions about the political arrangement that underpins that distinction.) Moderators, feel free to delete this post if it is problematic.

A single shot, and cheaper to store. Also, could make a big deal for poorer countries that did not manage to lock up supply of the other vaccines. This is important. Silent hypoxia (where your oxygen drops suddenly/dangerously but you don't notice) seems to happen a lot w/COVID and is dangerous. Disagree strongly, for two reasons. 1) Older people are MUCH more likely to die from COVID than younger people. So prioritizing their vaccination IMMEDIATELY (or nearly immediately) makes COVID much less dangerous for society at large, even if it continues to circulate. 2) We're finally starting to get scientific evidence that the vaccines reduce COVID transmission, not just symptoms BUT - this was initially not a certainty. So the risk with prioritizing young people was that you would reduce their morbidity (which was relatively mild) and not do much to reduce the fatality rate. Exactly. The reason we are freaked out about COVID, rightfully, is it kills a lot of people. Those fatalities are concentrated among the elderly (and especially the very elderly). Living with the disease becomes much more bearable (especially for a not-so-long time) if the number of deaths falls dramatically.

Dan - I don't disagree that there were younger musicians making strong straight-ahead jazz during the 1980s. Mostly I'm contesting the nonsensical narrative (which was probably more common 15-30 years ago) that a small group of younger musicians somehow "saved" straight ahead jazz during this period. As this thread shows, the scene was alive and well, and didn't need "saving".

A long time ago I watched the Keith Jarrett DVD documentary and Chick said that collaborating with Keith on the Mozart concerto freaked him out a little and motivated him to practice like crazy. I wonder how these two felt about each other personally. Probably not positively.

One thing that hits home from this thread is how astro-turfy and phony the whole "young lions" marketing campaign was. There was tons of unhyped, high quality straight-ahead (and straight-ahead-adjacent) jazz recorded during the 80s.

This seems really blah

After several years collecting dust, I’m finally starting to make my way through the box. Have listened to the first 5 discs so far. The Monterey 1964 disc was what I’ve been looking forward to the most - “Meditations” is my favorite Mingus composition and, aside from Eric Dolphy, John Handy is my favorite Mingus saxophonist, so I love hearing him on this material. The additional Town Hall material is very welcome as well, and the Amsterdam gig is great - I think the sextet was better with Coles. I’m curious about the 1965 band, never having listened to it before. Coming in with relatively low expectations.

Interesting discussion on DiMeola and post 1972 fusion. I’m able to enjoy DiMeola’s music (at least the Elegant Gypsy stuff) on its own terms, as entertaining fluff. But it’s annoying when incorporated into Corea’s music where I have higher expectations.

Hey all - the recent Julius Hemphill box set made me poke around at the New World Recordings catalogue and... it looks pretty intriguing! I have two albums from the label, both under Muhal Richard Abrams's name (the big band album and the duets with Marty Ehrlich). Any other treasures you'd recommend?

I think you're right. He seems to be one of those people whose exaggerated sense of self-importance leads them to regularly embarrass themselves in public. Re the Liebman interview - really interesting. Thanks for sharing, Larry.

There are strands of left wing thought that are anti-immigration (not necessarily anti-immigrant, though the line can get blurry quick).

The 70s and 80s were an extraordinarily creative/fertile time for jazz! I'll have to think about my favorites, but there are a lot I love.