AndrewHill

Jane Getz is indeed a fine player. Nothing really flashy but a solid player nonetheless. I'm also a fan of both of Sonny's ESP's, especially the first one. Manhatten Egos is another favorite along with the Contemporary's of the early 70's. Barbara Donald's contributions are rather valuable in their own right.

You think so? I don't hear it that way at all. I hear it as a typical "practicing" jam session, the kind that's different from the staged public kind. I hear Pharoah ebbing and flowing in terms of inspiration, playing through it all. It's the way real jam sessions sound. As for the band, Jane Getz is no slouch, even if she's no Titan either. The rest of the band is jam-session caliber, I think. The difference for me is that everybody was more or less on the same page. Pharoah in 1964 was not the Pharoah of a year later. Ayler, otoh, was aready someplace else, far removed from his what his accompaniment could even begin to think about. I understand what you are saying, and agreed, Ayler was way ahead of Pharoah, but I see these two sessions as being identical in terms of circumstance only. With Ayler, NHOP was on bass, who I don't consider to be a slouch, but he in fact played pretty much inside on that date. And on the ESP date, Jane Getz may be a key player, but she was pretty much playing inside too (as I think she was on the Mingus live date as well). My only point was that there are two players that were pushing ahead, and they were stuck with forward-thinking bands. The only difference is that Ayler and Pharoah recorded about two years apart. Ayler though, as you indicated, is in another bag, and that bag I respect tremondously. Pharoah had his work cut for him and he too was trying to push out, but he was stuck in a similar circumstance as Ayler, it just happen that Ayler was stuck with a similar band just two years prior. Well see, I don't think that Pharoah thinking at the time of this date (Sept. 1964, right?) was as fully formed as Ayler's was. The guy's plaing changes and he sounds like he's into playing changes. You can hear him working on shit as he goes along. You wouldn't be doing it like that if you were totally convinced that it was going to be a dead end. Sure, he no doubt had some other stuff going on at the time, but his approach here tells me that he had not ruled out playing changes as something that he was going to continue to do (and in fact hasn't done, although that's only obvious now). Ayler, otoh, was fully convinced that his way was going to be it for him. You can tell right away that playing chages is something that he is so not going to be thinking about, much less actually doing. He's fully gone from that way and has made a full committment to his way. To me, that's the difference. Another way to look at it is this - if Pharoah hadn't have gotten the gig w/Trane, how would he have been playing in 1966? Of course there's no way to really know, but the depth of his commitment on the ESP side leads me to wonder if maybe, just maybe, the platform of the Coltrane gig, and all that it entailed, forced the issue for him in a way that it might not have otherwise been forced. Pure speculation, that is, but... Ok, I listened to both My Name is AA and Pharoah's First today and I see the point you're making. The similarity that I was bringing to light only concerns the rhythm sections and not the leaders. I guess the way I see it is that Albert's band was really not prepared for something of that caliber, nor do they seem convinced of his new brand of music; whereas Pharoah's band was just simply trying to play as out as they possibly could, although it seems that they were not completely comfortable with the circumstances, especially Stan Foster (surprisingly, Jane Getz seems to embrace the moment). Hence, Ayler's band seems baffled in the implied sense, whereas Pharoah seems to be just downright fustrated with his band. Regardless, I like both of these albums quite a bit and I wasn't trying to say that they are the same musically speaking. I think though that both Ayler and Pharoah were trying to do their own thing and were met with largely unresponsive rhythm sections.

Huge Hold'em fan. In fact, I'm going to Vegas to watch the WSOP main event this July, although if I had 10k, I'd be playing in it. I know this is 8 pages in, but I'll just say that I've played only local games and that's about it. My favorite poker pros are Ted Forrest, Phil Ivey, Daniel Negreanu and Scotty Nguyen. Anyone else going to either play/watch the WSOP?

You think so? I don't hear it that way at all. I hear it as a typical "practicing" jam session, the kind that's different from the staged public kind. I hear Pharoah ebbing and flowing in terms of inspiration, playing through it all. It's the way real jam sessions sound. As for the band, Jane Getz is no slouch, even if she's no Titan either. The rest of the band is jam-session caliber, I think. The difference for me is that everybody was more or less on the same page. Pharoah in 1964 was not the Pharoah of a year later. Ayler, otoh, was aready someplace else, far removed from his what his accompaniment could even begin to think about. I understand what you are saying, and agreed, Ayler was way ahead of Pharoah, but I see these two sessions as being identical in terms of circumstance only. With Ayler, NHOP was on bass, who I don't consider to be a slouch, but he in fact played pretty much inside on that date. And on the ESP date, Jane Getz may be a key player, but she was pretty much playing inside too (as I think she was on the Mingus live date as well). My only point was that there are two players that were pushing ahead, and they were stuck with forward-thinking bands. The only difference is that Ayler and Pharoah recorded about two years apart. Ayler though, as you indicated, is in another bag, and that bag I respect tremondously. Pharoah had his work cut for him and he too was trying to push out, but he was stuck in a similar circumstance as Ayler, it just happen that Ayler was stuck with a similar band just two years prior.

I'm still undecided about Murray. Its a hit or miss with me. I like Flowers for Albert quite a bit, but don't really care for his more mainstream projects, like Black and Blue. Ironically, though, I do like the Grateful Dead Dark Star recording he did for Astor House. Other than that, I own the Murray/Newton DIW which is nice enough, and Ming's Samba which is a lot like Black and Blue. I basically wouldn't miss these cd's, except maybe for Flowers. I guess that's the kind of impact he's had on me.

The back of the RVG says that this is the case: "The young organist Charles Earland converted the Beatles' "Eleanor Rigby" into an anthem called "Black Talk""

Got a chance to fill in a lot of Taylor, thanks to a blow-out at Half-Price Books. Besides the Contemporary, Blue Notes, UA's, and the Candids, I now own four more FMP's, a Hat Art, two Leo's, and a New World Records. I really love Taylor's music, because he makes you listen. He is demanding in every sense of the word and once you get it, it is marvelous. The FMP's are: Taylor with Gunther Sommer, Tony Oxley, Berlin Solo, and Berlin Corona. Out of these, I really like the Oxley, and Berlin Corona, mostly for William Parker. The Hat Art is the Eighth, which is really good. In fact, I have not encountered a 'bad' Taylor record. The Leo's are two concert dates and the New World is one of two Cecil Taylor Unit records which is probably my favorite for Jimmy Lyons and Raphe Malik alone. My general impression is just simply demanding, but if you devote some time to understanding him, the payoff is tremendous.

Sander's Impulse! sides are for the most part, really good. Tauhid is probably the best out of the lot although Black Unity is a close second, and Deaf, Dumb, Blind a third. Karma does have a really nice groove, which I like. I'm not really a fan of vocals, but Leon Thomas is a nice fit in this context. I even like the lyrics. Thembi has its moments, and it was mentioned that McBee is impressive on this side, and I completely agree. Jewels of thought's first song is interesting but the second tune can be discarded. Have not heard Live at the East, but I'd really like to. Besides these records, I own the ESP, which is almost like the same problem that Ayler had on 'My Name is Albert Ayler' where Pharoah is fighting a really straight-laced band. Enjoyable enough though. The Strata East date, though, is another affair, and largely successful. Great band on that one.

Fan of Air/Threadgill. Own: Rag, Bush and All Spirit of Nuf Nuf Too Much Sugar for a Dime Save the Day Makin a Move Where's Your Cup? From Air: Airtime. Rag Bush and All is still my favorite. The others take a little while to get used to, but as soon as you adjust, it is quite rewarding. Besides Rag, I dig Makin a Move a lot. To a degree, Too Much Sugar kind of reminds me of Ronald Shannon Jackson's Decoding Society, especially Red Warrior (they almost have a similar line up, although Jackson has three guitarists whereas Threadgill has two). Nonetheless, great music by one of jazz's originals.

Ok, so based on these reviews, I decided to pick this one up, and I guess it hasn't blown me away yet. I want it to, because it has a great line-up. After a couple of spins though, I'm still waiting for this one to kick in. Being a fan of Patton, Young and L. Smith, I figured that Earland would be a nice addition, and this is in fact my first exposure to him. Am I missing something? Great sound by the way.

An interesting question could be: who would've been a more out-leaning sax player for Patton: Alexander or Sanders?

Wow. Would've loved to hear one of those gigs.

Compulsion!!! is such a great record. I was just playing this reissue when I heard of his death. Man, what a superb album, and to think that it took Andrew Hill's incentive to get this one released. Compulsion!!! is now one of my most favorite BN releases of the past few years. Yet another reminder of his genius.

Heard how great this one is, so count me in as looking forward to hearing it.

Fan of Ted Curson. Sadly, I have just 'Plenty of Horn', which is an excellent date. I thought Curson and Bill Barron were a good foil for each other, especially on 'Modern Windows Suite'. Like his work with Mingus as well. Has anyone heard his Atlantic side, 'The New Thing and the Blue Thing'? Looks interesting.

And now that the Bop Stop has moved away from the warehouse district (E 6th) to the edge of downtown Cleveland, they now have a much bigger venue for larger audiences. The Cleveland Jazz Orchestra is amazing! I took a couple of Paul Ferguson's jazz classes and I think he's now the director of the CJO. One thing he managed, and I'll never forget this, is he got Lester Bowie to come in for a surprise guest lecture. I just about fell out of my seat, as he came in with his horned-rimmed glasses and doctor's coat. The best surprise of a lifetime. I should add that this was about 11 years ago.

I heard somewhere, but I don't know where, that Pharoah played with Patton. Can anyone confirm that?

Have to disagree with AMG on their reviews of BJP's Understanding and Boogaloo too. The sidemen he had on those dates were really outward-leaning players that added to the music, not detracted from it. When I bought Understanding, I was blown away. This record is perhaps my favorite organ record of all time, and that's up against the output of my other two favorite organists, Larry Young and Lonnie Smith. At times, I wonder why Understanding was released as a Rare Groove. This album goes beyond groove, its a new sound altogether! A great record by a great master.

I don't own a whole lot of Jarrett, just two Impulse!'s: Treasure Island and Mysteries. Treasure is just ok, but I really like Mysteries quite a bit. So I would recommend it, if its easy to track dowm (I think its still available in a box set and on Verve's vault site).

Whadda you recommend by Cake? Their first one, Fashion Nugget is an absolute must.

Hi Patrick, Funny enough, I grew up in Florida and moved to Cleveland to go to school. I used to hang out at the Boarding House all the time. During the day, it was your usual quiet bar (used to love looking at the jazz photos on their walls), but at night it did turn into a vibrant, local jazz showcase (you may remember the Barking Spider near Case's campus which featured a trombonist from Ellington's band; cannnot remember his name, but he played there every Friday night). Lately though, I think the emphasis has shifted there, and they don't feature jazz as much as they used to. The Tri-C jazz fest, does bring some great acts, most notably of late, Wayne Shorter with Perez, Pattituci and Blade (had first row seats) and wow, what a show. Brian Blade just blew me away!

I think the thing that you'll notice about Patton's work is that he was always a group player. AOTB is really a superb performance. I know what you mean about the head on Rakin' & Scrapin'. Especially the outro head which the horn player messes up, but they continue on. That tune is essentially a showcase for Blood Ulmer which shows you how much of a giving personality Patton had on the bandstand. I'll have to disagree in your assumption that this was a tired or under-rehearsed group. I just don't hear that. To my ears, it just sounds like the emphasis had changed. Loose in the way Mile's Marathon sessions were in the sense that this was a working group that just came in and played. And if there were flaws, so be it as long as the performances were there. Patton plays some of his most amazing things on AOTB such as Lite Hit, ect. If anyone person adds a particular loose feel to me, it's Blood. He's super behind the beat on this record. Really pulling on Leroy Williams and Patton's basslines. Marvin Cabell always said Hugh Walker was the guy that fit best with the group. These guys really worked the road together and the empathy between Patton and Walker is just hand in glove. Ok, I went back and listened to AOTB again, and based on what you were saying, I was able to listen to it from a different perspective. Besides 'Rakin and Scrapin, which still sounds a little rough around the edges, the playing seems to be a lot tighter from there on, especially on 'Captain Nasty,' 'Village Lee,' and Lite Hit.' In addition, Leroy William's drumming really stands out this time around, even more than before, and I think that he's an important contribution to this session. I'm really glad I have this cd, and Patton is like that for me: I may not get something that he's doing at first, but eventually it clicks. Today, AOTB clicked. Thank you.

Leroy Williams is a good fit for Patton, although I much prefer Hugh Walker. I think Hugh pushed Patton to play harder and that's why I think 'Understanding' is such a good session. In a lot of respects, I can't imaginine anyone else filling the drum chair on that album; he was perfect. Alexander also pushed Patton into more avant garde leanings, which is also prevalent on Boogaloo. So the combination of Walker and Alexander was a dream team for Patton-they all played their asses off on that album. In fact, it was 'Understanding' that turned me into an Alexander fan. I think part of the problem for me on AOTB is the very loose heads at the beginning of the tunes, especially on 'Rakin and Scrapin.' Even the solos don't sound entirely inspired. Maybe there just wasn't enough practice time or everyone was exausted. But I don't think Williams is the source of the problem at all. I also like his contribution to MTNYS as well. A solid player. Now Clifford Jarvis would be interesting to hear with Patton. Respect his work quite a bit, especially with Ra and Jackie Mac (Right Now!). Guess I'll have to wait for the single issue of 'That Certain Feeling.'

You're right, I should've pulled out the ESP before I said that. Do dig the string quartet though.