Tina Brooks

[J.A.W.]

I think his drug problem had something to do with his limited amount of sessions as a leader.

Where did you read / hear that? Did I miss something?

I have book on jazz history. Off the top of my head I can't recall the title. It is mentioned in there. I will check tonight and post the name. It is also mentioned here. tina brooks

Perhaps I'm misreading the article, but it doesn't actually say that Brooks' drug problem had something to do with his limited amount of sessions as a leader.

Edited May 26, 2004 by J.A.W.

[J.A.W.]

Hardbopjazz clearly stated in his post above that he thought that "... his drug problem had something to do with his limited amount of sessions as a leader", which is why I asked him where he'd heard or read that.

yes, I read that and obviously his "...had something to do with..." is hinting at a causal relation, I am wondering which is the cause and which the effect, as both interpretations seem to be possible.

You're right.

[Larry Kart]

Sorry if I muddied the waters here by not reading the initial question carefully enough. On the other hand, if drug use barred a musician from having albums released by Blue Note (or made it much less likely), where would that have left any number of Blue Note regulars, from Blakey on down? Almost certainly, Brooks' drug use (if, as seems likely, there was some) had nothing to do with Blue Note not releasing anything under his own name after "True Blue." Drug use would have been a problem with Blue Note only if it prevented a musician from showing up at rehearsals and in the studio in shape to play.

[Hardbopjazz]

wait a minute, hbjazz are you saying that his drug problem was because of his limited amount of sessions as a leader or that his limited amount of sessions as a leader was because of his drug problem?

His drug problems kept him off the scene and out of the studio. Maybe I feel his health problems were brought about do to his drug problems.

"Tina was also one of many who had a chronic drug habit. The inevitable short hospital and prison stays would keep him off the music scene intermittently. Tina Brooks died on August 13, 1974 of kidney failure or, as Beener put it, 'general dissipation.' He had been very ill and unable to play the saxophone for several years." Tina Brooks

Edited May 26, 2004 by Hardbopjazz

[kh1958]

Still waiting for the reissue of 'The Connection' album he recorded with Freddie Redd (and Howard McGhee) for Felsted. My secondhand copy is slowly giving up.

That was reissued on CD a few years back, as I have a copy.

[J.A.W.]

wait a minute, hbjazz are you saying that his drug problem was because of his limited amount of sessions as a leader or that his limited amount of sessions as a leader was because of his drug problem?

His drug problems kept him off the scene and out of the studio. Maybe I feel his health problems were brought about do to his drug problems.

"Tina was also one of many who had a chronic drug habit. The inevitable short hospital and prison stays would keep him off the music scene intermittently. Tina Brooks died on August 13, 1974 of kidney failure or, as Beener put it, 'general dissipation.' He had been very ill and unable to play the saxophone for several years." Tina Brooks

That doesn't imply that Brooks' problem had something to do with his limited amount of sessions as a leader, as Larry Kart has already pointed out in his last post.

Edited May 26, 2004 by J.A.W.

[couw]

well Hans, it does state "The inevitable short hospital and prison stays would keep him off the music scene intermittently," and so the drugs and the recording may indeed "have to do" with each other. Nevertheless, there are little facts about his drug related problems (prison, hospital, when? how long?)

DAVID H. ROSENTHAL (Hard Bop, Oxford University Press, 1992 link) seems to want to point out that the jail and hospital bouts were part of the post BN era as he only mentions them in his last paragraph:

By 1962, Brooks' career as a recording artist was over. Nonetheless, he continued to appear at Bronx jazz spots like the Blue Morocco, Freddie's Bar, and the 845 Club with Hope, Beener, and others. Heroin addiction--complete with spells in jail and in hospitals--limited his professional activity during the rest of his life. The official cause of his death in 1974 was kidney failure. He had been too ill to play for several years.

No mention of large drug related problems during his recording years (1958-1961). My guess is the lack of success put the guy down and that somewhat dissilusioned he turned to second rate clubs and R&B bands to earn a living.

When and how long was he in that Connection play?

[catesta]

When and how long was he in that Connection play?

That's a good question.

I think it opened in 1959.

[J.A.W.]

well Hans, it does state "The inevitable short hospital and prison stays would keep him off the music scene intermittently," and so the drugs and the recording may indeed "have to do" with each other. Nevertheless, there are little facts about his drug related problems (prison, hospital, when? how long?)

I was also referring to Larry Kart's post, where he stated that "Almost certainly, Brooks' drug use (if, as seems likely, there was some) had nothing to do with Blue Note not releasing anything under his own name after "True Blue." Drug use would have been a problem with Blue Note only if it prevented a musician from showing up at rehearsals and in the studio in shape to play."

I'm merely saying that the quote from the article doesn't explicitly say that Brooks' problem and his limited number of recordings as a leader are related, as hardbopjazz seems to suggest.

Edited May 26, 2004 by J.A.W.

[jazzbo]

Yes, under Howard McGhee's name, "The Connection" has been out on Boplicity, and it is a short and sweet cd!

[couw]

When and how long was he in that Connection play?

That's a good question.

I think it opened in 1959.

yes July 1959.

But Brooks joined later I believe. Did he play regularly? and for how long?

[brownie]

When and how long was he in that Connection play?

That's a good question.

I think it opened in 1959.

yes July 1959.

But Brooks joined later I believe. Did he play regularly? and for how long?

I have never seen a mention that Tina Brooks did play in 'The Connection' stage presentation..

Jackie McLean did, Dexter Gordon did. Tina Brooks? Doubt this.

He appeared on the Howard McGhee record. So did Milt Hinton and Osie Johnson. Those two were not in the play. Don't think McGhee was either.

[catesta]

This is what I found.

"During 1959 and '60, Tina was the understudy for Jackie McLean in Jack Gelber's play The Connection, which was presented by The Living Theater. The pianist, composer, and musical director was Freddie Redd."

[mikeweil]

Michael Cuscuna stated in his notes to the Mosaic box set that Alfred Lion couldn't remember the exact reason why "Back To The Tracks" was not released - it had an issue number, a cover design made and was advertised. He thought so many things were happening in those days.

"Minor Move", I think, was not released due to the hiss in the ride cymbal - Rudy Van Gelder had recorded at too high a level.

Brooks not really being a presence on the scene and thus not really being able to promote his albums may have been a reason. Lion skipped albums by artists after they had dropped off the scene or died, i.e. Leo Parker, Ike Quebec, Sonny Clark ... But many Blue Note artists were recorded more often than they could release on a realistic level.

[Dan Gould]

Michael Cuscuna stated in his notes to the Mosaic box set that Alfred Lion couldn't remember the exact reason why "Back To The Tracks" was not released - it had an issue number, a cover design made and was advertised. He thought so many things were happening in those days.

"Minor Move", I think, was not released due to the hiss in the ride cymbal - Rudy Van Gelder had recorded at too high a level.

Brooks not really being a presence on the scene and thus not really being able to promote his albums may have been a reason.

First, wasn't it also said that Alfred was dissatisfied with the Minor Move session because the ensembles were a little less precise than he liked?

Also, doesn't it also say in the Mosaic booklet something along the lines (and I think this was Jackie McLean speaking) that Tina wasn't a real aggressive guy when it came to hustling gigs, etc.? Maybe it wasn't drug problems but a personality ill-suited to the competitive NYC scene?

[BruceH]

Anyone else out there feel the way I do about this musical genius?

Oh yes!

Over the years I've found more and more levels of enjoyment in his work. One of my all-time favorites.

[Soulstation1]

i'd really like to read the mosaic booklet on tina

ss1

[Larry Kart]

There was a Dizzy Gillespie Down Beat Blindfold Test where Leonard Feather played a track from one of the Blue Note jam session albums that Brooks appeared on, maybe Burrell's "Blue Lights" or Jimmy Smith's "House Party." Dizzy dug Brooks' solo and asked Feather who that was. Leonard told him, and Dizzy said: "Tina Brooks? Is that a LADY?"

[Jim R]

I think his drug problem had something to do with his limited amount of sessions as a leader. He is a great tenor player. Try to track down "Street Singer". He great on this session. I think the recent RVG of Jackie McLean's Jackie's Bag has a few tracks from that session on it.

Actually all of the tracks from the 1 September 1960 date are on the Jackie's Bag RVG. The original Jackie's Bag only had Appointment in Ghana, A Ballad for Doll, and Isle of Java plus three tracks from 18 January 1959 with Donald Byrd.

Maybe you're referring to the original LP, but FWIW, the original (1987) CD version of JACKIE'S BAG has all nine tracks also, which is why I never bought the pricey STREET SINGER import.

[MartyJazz]

This is what I found.

"During 1959 and '60, Tina was the understudy for Jackie McLean in Jack Gelber's play The Connection, which was presented by The Living Theater. The pianist, composer, and musical director was Freddie Redd."

This of course correlates with the fact that there are two complete recordings of Freddie Redd's score for "The Connection", the more famous Blue Note quartet session featuring Jackie McLean, and the lesser known Felsted quintet session that has Howard McGhee and Tina Brooks in the front line. Both highly enjoyable.

[couw]

Actually all of the tracks from the 1 September 1960 date are on the Jackie's Bag RVG. The original Jackie's Bag only had Appointment in Ghana, A Ballad for Doll, and Isle of Java plus three tracks from 18 January 1959 with Donald Byrd.

Maybe you're referring to the original LP, but FWIW, the original (1987) CD version of JACKIE'S BAG has all nine tracks also, which is why I never bought the pricey STREET SINGER import.

actually I was referring to the TOCJ and JRVG, which both have only 6 tracks.

I stand corrected on the domestic CD issue.

[1ngram]

I'd never heard of the version of "The Connection" with Tina playing on it. Its not in the discograpohy I have. Is it readily available?

[1ngram]

sorry just noticed reference to Howard McGee CD. Will chase it up

[MartyJazz]

sorry just noticed reference to Howard McGee CD. Will chase it up

Little known point of fact. I believe the reason that the CD is listed under McGhee's name rather than Freddie Redd is due to contractual matters that may have existed then. While the album cover does say "composed by Freddie Redd", Redd himself is listed as "I. Ching" in the personnel listing and in the original liner notes when discussing the pianist on the date.

[Jim R]

Here's that original Felsted cover:

and the Boplicity CD cover:

Edited May 27, 2004 by Jim R