Ray Draper - Red Beans and Rice

[bebopbob]

Any info on this set. Who plays on it. style, recording date? Not much about this one on AMG. I love the Prestige set he did with Coltrane reissued on OJC. Thanks.

[brownie]

Details (and sound samples) from this rare album are available here:

http://ubl.artistdirect.com/store/artist/a...78694%2C00.html

If the sound samples do not appear (when I tried I got the sound samples display the first time, than this disappeared and an advertisement popped up instead on the second try), try a direct link. It should work!

[Niko]

just trying to make sense of that infamous ray draper wikipedia article

does anybody have access to the following la times article and can tell me what's mentioned about the lineup of draper's band? and the date of the concert/how long the band was in existence at the time... THANKS!

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access...mp;pqatl=google

Two Rock Groups at Whisky a GoGo, LA Times, May 11, 1968

btw, here's the wikipedia article as it was before people started to throw away information by editing it....

Raymond Allen Draper (August 3, 1940–November 1, 1982) was an American hard bop tuba player. Born in New York City. After attending the Manhattan School of Music in the mid-1950s, he played or recorded with Jackie McLean, Donald Byrd, John Coltrane, Max Roach, Don Cherry, Horace Tapscott, Archie Shepp, Teddy Wender, Brother Jack McDuff, Dr. John, Mick Jagger, Eric Clapton and Howard Johnson. He also recorded as a leader in the late 1950s And upon being released from prison in the late sixties ,formed the first jazz rock fusion band composed of Established jazz musicians of the day.This preceded the normally accepted Miles Davis Bitches Brew as first jazz rock fusion group ,and recording by three years.Original band members include George Bohannon trombone,Hadley Caliman Tenor sax, John Duke upright bass Paul Lagos drums and Tom Trujillo guitar,This band after its first live performance at the Whiskey a go go in Holly wood,co billing with THE NAZZ was offered numerous top money record deals and was booked solid for the rest of the year [1968?] at all the major rock clubs.But after his wifes attempyed suicide after catching Ray with another girl,Ray began using heroin again, whereupon the more experienced band members all quit except for the guitarist Tom Trujillo and his landlord Chuck Goodn .This led for a search for new members some of which were .Don Sleet veteren NY trumpet player and one of Ernie Watts first gigs in LA. After two long years of searching Ray finally relented and Paul lagos was brought back on drums ,along with Richard Aplan on sax Phil Woods on Trumpet and Keyboardist Chuck Goodn Vocal Tom Trujillo guitar Ray Draper Tuba/ vocals Ron Johnson on bass.This comprised the new group eventually named by Trujillo because of the many food named bands at the time like Cream.Vanilla Fudge etc Named the band after soul food RED BEANS AND RICE,This group played with Chicago Transit Authority, jethro Tull, Jimmy Hendrix, Gil Scott Heron etc And was on its way to being possibley the best band of its era due to the musicianship in the band and the originality, range and skill in its compositions and live performances.Musically they blew everyone away. They went on to recording the LP Red Beans and Rice featuring sparerib Ray Draper on Epic Records. But when the band saw what Ray and his manager Forrest Hamilton had done putting only Rays picture on the cover, Again the whole group quit and Ray was on his own again. After this he performed and recorded but he was killed during a robbery trying to tell a young robber who he was .Ray had unbelievable charm,and charisma that overcame his addiction ,his ability as a musician and composer and vision were unparralelled

edit to add: Don Sleet was a west coast musician, of course; the whiskey a gogo gig together with the nazz was in may 1968 and it most likely (according to michael fitzgerald for instance) the album was recorded around the same time (meaning, that the gig probably had a similar lineup to the album (namely it did not feature either of the early lineup with bohannon/caliman or sleet/watts ? and the "two year" waiting period was probably rather something like late 1966 to early 1968?) but who knows, lagos was with kaleidoscope from some time in 1968 on but ernie watts didn't come to LA after leaving buddy rich before 1968 (having his first recording session with blue mitchell in september 1968); anyway the red beans and rice album was released in 1969 (and the 1960 recording date is bs);

Edited August 10, 2009 by Niko

[JohnS]

Any info on this set. Who plays on it. style, recording date? Not much about this one on AMG. I love the Prestige set he did with Coltrane reissued on OJC. Thanks.

Not heard of this one before. As well as the Prestige date, the Jubilee/Roulette album has some very nice Coltrane.

Date from 1960 by the way.

Edited August 10, 2009 by JohnS

[jeffcrom]

Any info on this set. Who plays on it. style, recording date? Not much about this one on AMG. I love the Prestige set he did with Coltrane reissued on OJC. Thanks.

I've got this record - when I get home from work I'll post the relevant info. It's trendy rock with horns. I haven't listened to it for some time, but I remember thinking that it sounded like second-rate Blood, Sweat and Tears. It certainly didn't strike me as "being possibley the best band of its era."

[Niko]

actually, the first two posts were several years old...

michael fitzgerald has a fine discography of ray draper's leader dates

http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Leaders/DraperRay-ldr.php

i was just confused/made curious by that wikipedia article - the dates are not quite consistent, had hoped that la times article would help carifying this...

[jeffcrom]

actually, the first two posts were several years old...

Duh... Yes, I can read English when I pay attention.

[JSngry]

Ray and his manager Forrest Hamilton

Is that Chico Hamilton?

[Niko]

Ray and his manager Forrest Hamilton

Is that Chico Hamilton?

it's chico's son in the 12 March 1970 issue of Jet it says

"Tubaist Ray Draper opened PURE CANE Ltd. in London. The company, directed by Forest Hamilton (Chico's son), maganes Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band. The band's Do Your Thing was on JET's Soul Brothers Top 20 for months. Draper will perform in Europe and head production of records and film scores."

(the fruits of a day of ray draper research...after some time in prison, draper resurfaced on the west coast in the mid sixties and started a band (as described in the wikipedia article), stayed with tapscott's community (as did guitar player tom trujillo) in May 1968 draper appeared on sonny's dream, red beans and rice appeared at the whisky a go go, probably recorded their album around that time, the album was released in 1969; then (early 1970?) Draper moved to London and was a sideperson in the so-called slave collar incident surrounding British Black Panther leader Michael X in May or so, recorded with Dr John (who says he met him in Amsterdam, strangely) in London in July and was back in New York in December 1970 as the band leader of Jack McDuff's "Who knows what's tommorow gonna bring"; in February 1971 he appeared in Chris Albertson's TV show, there's a village voice article from november 1972 showing that he had apparently kept at least part of that line-up together, but without really getting anywhere... in 1975 he was still in new york appearing on archie shepp's trumpet in my soul (and writing a letter to chris albertson which luckily was not deleted from this board), by the summer of 1977 he was back in LA working with Horace Tapscott... in May 1982 he is mentioned again in Jet (on the occasion of his grandfather's 100th birthday), it says he had just joined lionel hampton's band, in november 1982 he is killed in a robbery)

Edited August 10, 2009 by Niko

[Niko]

another mention of pure cane ltd and forrest hamilton in this article about the band hamilton streetcar

http://www.60sgaragebands.com/hamiltonstreetcar.html

[jeffcrom]

I just listened to this album again for the first time in years. They're all good musicians, but I don't much like the music, mostly because of the earnest 1968-era vocals, with half-baked lyrics, from what I could tell. The tunes range from funk/rock to kind of wispy folk-hippie stuff. Draper has a couple of short solos, but nothing spectacular. Richard Aplan on tenor sax is the best thing about the album. He solos on about half the tunes, with a hard, Billy Harper-like sound and with fire and imagination.

The cover reads "Red Beans & Rice Featuring Ray Draper," but the label has "Red Beans & Rice Featuring Spareribs," then "Ray Draper" below that in larger type. I don't know what the "Spareribs" is referring to, but I'm guessing that there was a change in billing at some point. The Fitzgerald discography Niko links to has all the album info except for the astrological signs of each player, which are dutifully listed on the back cover. I'll probably pull this one out again in another six or seven years just to satisfy my curiosity.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

oh balls! Hadley was in the group? i should of known! bad ass....what was the name of the band then, red beans n rice? is he any of the recordings?

[sidewinder]

"Tubaist Ray Draper opened PURE CANE Ltd. in London. The company, directed by Forest Hamilton (Chico's son), maganes Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band. The band's Do Your Thing was on JET's Soul Brothers Top 20 for months. Draper will perform in Europe and head production of records and film scores."

Yeah, he was resident in London for a while around 1970. There's an interview with him in Jazz Monthly from around that time. Will try and dig it out.

[Niko]

"Tubaist Ray Draper opened PURE CANE Ltd. in London. The company, directed by Forest Hamilton (Chico's son), maganes Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band. The band's Do Your Thing was on JET's Soul Brothers Top 20 for months. Draper will perform in Europe and head production of records and film scores."

Yeah, he was resident in London for a while around 1970. There's an interview with him in Jazz Monthly from around that time. Will try and dig it out.

that would be great!!

JAZZ MONTHLY, 187 SEPTEMBER 1970, UK, RED RODNEY ON RECORD/ LORD BUCKLEY/ RAY DRAPER INTERVIEW

(also, the february 1971 downbeat seems to contain something...)

[Niko]

I just listened to this album again for the first time in years. They're all good musicians, but I don't much like the music, mostly because of the earnest 1968-era vocals, with half-baked lyrics, from what I could tell. The tunes range from funk/rock to kind of wispy folk-hippie stuff. Draper has a couple of short solos, but nothing spectacular. Richard Aplan on tenor sax is the best thing about the album. He solos on about half the tunes, with a hard, Billy Harper-like sound and with fire and imagination.

The cover reads "Red Beans & Rice Featuring Ray Draper," but the label has "Red Beans & Rice Featuring Spareribs," then "Ray Draper" below that in larger type. I don't know what the "Spareribs" is referring to, but I'm guessing that there was a change in billing at some point. The Fitzgerald discography Niko links to has all the album info except for the astrological signs of each player, which are dutifully listed on the back cover. I'll probably pull this one out again in another six or seven years just to satisfy my curiosity.

thank you so much for your impressions! just astrological signs, no birthdates, i guess... (trujillo's i'd like to know...) (and it's not produced by jackie paris as claimed in the wikipedia article, right... ?)

another little bit of information, draper appeared in don cherry's quartet (and also with archie shepp's group (?)) at the legendary byg actuel festival in amougies in october 1969...

______________________________

here is a great site btw with among others numerous photos from amougies by guy le querrec... (just search for "archie shepp" for instance and then go to the older photos where he's not yet wearing that hat...

http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive

Edited August 11, 2009 by Niko

[jeffcrom]

thank you so much for your impressions! just astrological signs, no birthdates, i guess... (trujillo's i'd like to know...) (and it's not produced by jackie paris as claimed in the wikipedia article, right... ?)

You're welcome. No birthdates, and the back cover states that it was produced by Jackie Mills.

[JSngry]

Jackie Mills? The Jackie Mills?

[Niko]

Jackie Mills? The Jackie Mills?

i guess so, in this history of kaleidoscope (paul lagos band after leaving draper; four of the rest of the draper band resurface on buddy miles "chapter vii" in 1972 btw)

http://www.pulsatingdream.com/kaleidoscope..._part_four.html

it says "Jackie Mills, a veteran jazz drummer and R&B producer", so it should be the guy who recorded with dodo marmarosa...

[Niko]

leonard feathers encyclopedia has some more details at least until the mid seventies. (not all of this is from feather) inactive from 1959-64, band with philly joe jones in 1964 in LA, with Hadley Caliman 1965, with Big Black in 1966/67, then started red beans and rice in 1968 and recorded the album, went to europe (london) in 1969 and played with a group named Sweetwater Canal that also included future Procol Harum bass player Alan Cartwright, played at the famous Actuel festival in Amougies with Don Cherry's Quartet, recorded with Dr John in 1970 and then went back to NY, worked with Jack McDuff (and still with Dr John until 72 and again in 1975); had his own band in NY in the early seventies and stayed there at least until 1975, was with Howard Johnson's Gravity and Horace Tapscott in 1977/78 (west coast again i guess), led a big band at small's in 1978 (?), was with sun ra for about a year around 1980, joined lionel hampton's band in 1981 or 1982 and was shot in NY (on a visit) in late 1982 at age 42... a more productive career than i would have thought...

[sidewinder]

"Tubaist Ray Draper opened PURE CANE Ltd. in London. The company, directed by Forest Hamilton (Chico's son), maganes Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band. The band's Do Your Thing was on JET's Soul Brothers Top 20 for months. Draper will perform in Europe and head production of records and film scores."

Yeah, he was resident in London for a while around 1970. There's an interview with him in Jazz Monthly from around that time. Will try and dig it out.

that would be great!!

JAZZ MONTHLY, 187 SEPTEMBER 1970, UK, RED RODNEY ON RECORD/ LORD BUCKLEY/ RAY DRAPER INTERVIEW

(also, the february 1971 downbeat seems to contain something...)

That's the one. There's a photo of him and the wife in Hyde Park also.

[Bill Nelson]

I just listened to this album again for the first time in years. They're all good musicians, but I don't much like the music, mostly because of the earnest 1968-era vocals, with half-baked lyrics, from what I could tell. The tunes range from funk/rock to kind of wispy folk-hippie stuff. Draper has a couple of short solos, but nothing spectacular. Richard Aplan on tenor sax is the best thing about the album. He solos on about half the tunes, with a hard, Billy Harper-like sound and with fire and imagination.

The cover reads "Red Beans & Rice Featuring Ray Draper," but the label has "Red Beans & Rice Featuring Spareribs," then "Ray Draper" below that in larger type. I don't know what the "Spareribs" is referring to, but I'm guessing that there was a change in billing at some point. The Fitzgerald discography Niko links to has all the album info except for the astrological signs of each player, which are dutifully listed on the back cover. I'll probably pull this one out again in another six or seven years just to satisfy my curiosity.

In 1970 while DJ-ing at my college station (WRIU-FM, Kingston, RI), I recall pulling this LP from the jazz stacks to preview for airplay. Try as I might, there wasn't a single track I could find the least bit attractive, with a solid groove or jazz chops. Epic Records flung this one out there to see if it'd stick. Anyone who actually bought a stock copy at regular price had to be nuts. Betcha Ray Draper's mother hated it, too.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

interesting Ray Draper-Procol Harum connection!

After he left Freddie Mack, he became a member of Sweetwater Canal, under the direction of Ronnie Scott's management company. For a while, the band included American jazz/R&B tuba virtuoso Ray Draper – "a fantastic guy." But there were too many hassels [sic] – mostly over expenses – and although the band was extremely promising and enjoyable for its members, it fell apart.

found this in the 1973 procol hollywood bowl programme

[Niko]

very nice article posted by a friend of Draper:

http://jazztimes.com/community/articles/25890-i-never-met-john-coltrane

[Rooster_Ties]

Whole album seems to be on Youtube now...

 

 

[bertrand]

I have a Ray Draper retrospective on the proposals list for the Smithsonian, but I have a hunch this one will never happen.