jazzbo

The Grateful Dead Dark Star

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I disagree with you over Pigpen, but agree that you made a great score! That book is a treasure trove of information. And a lot of fun to read.

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I disagree with you over Pigpen, but agree that you made a great score! That book is a treasure trove of information. And a lot of fun to read.

Re: Pigpen. I know, I know, I tend to bash Pigpen way too much. I hereby resolve that in the year of 2008, I, Matthew, will not say a discouraging word about Pigpen. My days of dumping on the poor guy will be ending, and I will even strive to listen to his music with a more attentive ear.

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Ah bash if you want. You're entitled to your opinion, and I to mine. It doesn't alter my love for the guy. He's the real reason I got heavily back into the Dead some years back. Too bad he left so soon.

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I disagree with you over Pigpen, but agree that you made a great score! That book is a treasure trove of information. And a lot of fun to read.

Re: Pigpen. I know, I know, I tend to bash Pigpen way too much. I hereby resolve that in the year of 2008, I, Matthew, will not say a discouraging word about Pigpen. My days of dumping on the poor guy will be ending, and I will even strive to listen to his music with a more attentive ear.

I'm with you on the Pigpen "Lovelight" raps too, but I know there are at least a couple of major "Lovelight" fans here. I tend to just like the jaunty beginning. :) But I do love the Pig for "Hard To Handle," "It Hurts Me Too," and I know it's just a silly 1st set song, but I love "Mr. Charlie." It's a good song to get in the head when hiking up a small mountain.

Edited by Quincy

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...and I know it's just a silly 1st set song, but I love "Mr. Charlie." It's a good song to get in the head when hiking up a small mountain.

Ha! Just so. :tup

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...and I know it's just a silly 1st set song, but I love "Mr. Charlie." It's a good song to get in the head when hiking up a small mountain.

Ha! Just so. :tup

gdogus: Dude! Welcome back! :tup

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Of all the Donna stuff- I don't mind Sunrise on DP3.....geez- that wailing she does on Playing....Band makes my skin crawl!

DP3 is probabky one of my favorites......I've starting listening to DP33(?) the Oakland Coliseum shows-Day on the Green? I like it!

Anyone ever buy any of THE DEAD shows from 03 or 04? The ones with Joan Osborne? Boy I've been looking for a few of them but no luck. I heard a few and I liked them.

BTW- thanks to all of you who replied about downloading- I'm still on dialup- DSL is appearing next week!!

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For me, the best part of the Pigpen numbers comes when the improv snakes away from the original groove and he has to deal with the crazy stuff the band is throwing back at him. There are some dandy examples from his last hurrah, the Europe '72 tour -- the "Rockin' the Rhein" set has some amazing Pig moments.

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Darn, I almost got a Complete Fillmore West off ebay at my limit price -- lost to some last second sniper. <_<

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How much did it go for?? I sold mine last spring for $310.

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How much did it go for?? I sold mine last spring for $310.

Went for $310, which is a good buy right now. There's a promo up for sale now.

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Looks like the next Road Trip will also be a comp. Hmmm, I'll give it a chance.... <_<

This is from Steve Silberman, responding to critics of RT on Dead.net.

> Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but there are so many great shows out there, why put out bits and pieces?

Sorry to burst your bubble of devastation with very sweet news, rdevil, but as Blair wrote a little farther up: "Don’t worry, there will definitely still be full-show releases. We’ll have more on that soon."

---

So finally Rhino has gotten off its butt and is opening the floodgates, to both whole shows and compilations like this. Everyone up there knows that most hardcore Deadheads prefer whole shows, and Rhino's whole trip is delivering what passionate music geeks want. But there is also a place for a series like this, of discs where one track after another was the peak of that week, or that run, or that tour. Compliations are easy to dis in theory, but when these discs are on, they will peel the paint off your walls. I just finished writing notes for #2 in the series, and it's blistering. Plus, these discs sound great.

> No more Dicks Picks!

What 's truly tragic is "No more Dick!" I miss the cranky old beautiful so-and-so yelling at me through a cloud of sweet smoke to STOP FUTZING WITH TRYING TO READ THE TAPE CASES AND LISTEN! But why should Rhino call something a "Dick's pick" that Dick didn't pick? But Dick built a huge map of whole shows in his notebooks that will be guiding David Lemieux and Jeffrey Norman for years. For his friends, Dick made another kind of pick: mixed tapes. His mixes were insane and delicious, wildly mixing eras -- a '78 Scarlet > Fire followed by Pigpen, even spacy onstage chatter, favoring performances that made you think the speakers were going to burst into flames.

That's the spirit of these releases, and by focusing on individual tours or runs, the music has show-like coherence -- Lemieux told me he thought of these as "dream sets."

Steve Silberman

http://www.levity.com/digaland

Not sure if I like where this is going. But it will be interesting to see what the new box set will be, and how they handle that.

Edited by Matthew

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I disagree with you over Pigpen, but agree that you made a great score! That book is a treasure trove of information. And a lot of fun to read.

Who is this Pigpen character? Wasn't he the guy in Peanuts who always walked into a dirt pile?

One comment: many of Pig's songs produced some of the finest jamming the Dead ever did. Alligator, Good Lovin', Caution, Lovelight, Hard to Handle. And SMOKESTACK LIGHTING!!!! (Never the same thing twice). And his short tunes were always played tight and mean. I cannot imagine him singing post 72 as the instruments and playing style became way too light for his roughness (not a slam on post 72 Dead, just a comment).

As to Pig himself: all of you IMMEDIATELY git yo' hands out of yo'pockets and play 4-17-72 Good Lovin--Caution--Who Do You Love--Caution--Good Lovin for Pig's astonishing rap--his vocals blend perfectly with the intricacies of the music, and the music is phenominal.

Also, while everyone listens to the Priceton 1971 Good Lovin or the 4-25 version on the Fillmore East compilation ( a great box), listen to 4-26. There is no rap at all; instead there is some of the most amazing fire the band ever produced. Similar to the 4-29 jam, but every bit as intense. A great example of the band using Pig's energy as a launching pad to the edges of the universe.

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I particularly like Alligator. Not many versions out there, but I think I have them all. Dick's Picks, Vols. 4 & 22, Fillmore East: April 1971 and Fillmore West 1969's Bonus Disc according to Allmusic. While I love Pig, I wish he had a larger repertoire. I hate to think how many versions of lovelight I own.

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Well, there's more versions of that in the traders' hands! :)

I was listening to an Easy Wind the other day that just floored me!

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Well, there's more versions of that in the traders' hands! :)

The Easy Wind on Workingman's? What a tight version. The swap in leads always gets me going.

The wierd thing about Pig is the low number of songs he had in the repetoire. Alligator, Caution, Lovelight, Good Lovin, Easy Wind, Big Boss Man, Next Time You See Me, The Rub, Hard to Handle, Smokestack Lighting, Good Morning Little Schoogirl, It's a Man's World, Mr. Charlie, Chinatown Shuffle, The Same Thing, Two Souls in Communion, Operator, Empty Pages, It Hurts Me Too, Searchin, Pain In My Heart, Katie Mae, Run, Rudolph, Run--many of these were performed only a few times. He was beginning to write near the end--three of the listed songs are his--but we will never know what else he might have produced. True too, that he sang one song for every three that Bob and Jerry sang.

His job was always to bring the crowd to its feet, to make them get their hands out of their pockets and

find some little lady and . . .

It wasn't just the songs; it was stage presence. No one else in the group even came close.

Edited by orchiddoctor

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Listened to 1-20-68 this morning. It opens with a smoldering version of Clementine, a song I wish they would have expounded upon more often.

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1968 was a good Dead year! :tup

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Listened to 1-20-68 this morning. It opens with a smoldering version of Clementine, a song I wish they would have expounded upon more often.

I love that show. Every tune in that set is just killing. I was listening to that one last week.

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Listened to 1-20-68 this morning. It opens with a smoldering version of Clementine, a song I wish they would have expounded upon more often.

I love that show. Every tune in that set is just killing. I was listening to that one last week.

I bet an organ trio could rip into Clementine...

On your copy of the show, is the Dark Star victim of a fade-out after a couple of minutes?

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Listened to 1-20-68 this morning. It opens with a smoldering version of Clementine, a song I wish they would have expounded upon more often.

I love that show. Every tune in that set is just killing. I was listening to that one last week.

I bet an organ trio could rip into Clementine...

On your copy of the show, is the Dark Star victim of a fade-out after a couple of minutes?

yeppers. kind of annoying to be sure.

my trio's doing Dark Star and Eyes of the World as of late, if that's any consolation.

And the new Sabertooth album features them doing China Cat Sunflower, and it's kinda cool.

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On your copy of the show, is the Dark Star victim of a fade-out after a couple of minutes?

These shows were all recorded for Anthem. Unfortunately, they didn't copy each tape and many were cut up an reassembled for the finished work. Lots of teases and partial shows from this time. But tons of gold. Oddly, much of the meat from Anthem side two is available in complete form. The Shrine show from 1967 with the main section of Caution and the 2-14-68 show with the bulk of Aligator are out there. I think a bit more of Caution is on the 1968 DP release.

Clementine--such a difficult song to play--never seemed to be the same song twice. There are--what?--five GD versions, a few Heartbeat versions and the one studio jam out there? Shame that it never entered into the rotation. Imagine Dark Star--St. Stephen--the Eleven--Clementine. Or just Dark Star--Clementine.

You know, it's amazing how beloved "rock" music from 40 years ago still has such an impact.

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