Tony Pusey Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Anybody picked up on any of these? I am thinking of getting Lateef, Fuse 1, and Phil Uppchurch. What do board members think of this series in general? And what should the Sony big wigs pencil in for the next raft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 I never thought CTI was that great a label. They acquired Freddie Hubbard and Stanley Turrentine - among others - from BN. That was these musicians' downfall. Many labels from the 70s produced better music. Very few of the CTI albums will stand the test of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undergroundagent Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 I have to disagree, brownie. IMHO, there are a number of artists who were at their creative peak while at CTI. Freddie Hubbard was one of them. While I don't think any of Hubbard's Blue Note material (with the exception of maybe "Ready for Freddie") can be really deemed as classic, his CTI work ranks amongst the best jazz had to offer from about 1967 to the present. One need only listen to "Red Clay" or "Straight Life" to understand what I'm talking about. Turrentine also put out a numer of classic albums during this period. "Sugar," for example, was soul jazz at its purest. And let's not forget George Benson. Everyone only remembers him for his pop material of the mid to late seventies. Before that, however, he was putting out burners on CTI. Refer to "Body Talk" and "Shape of Things to Come." Though I agree with in some respects (in that there were some bad acts on CTI, i.e. Seawind), the label's contribution should not go unnoticed for it filled in the gap when other great labels such as Blue Note and Impulse/ABC were starting to falter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Pusey Posted July 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Uh Oh, what have I gotten myself into...bought both the Lateef and the Uppchurch/Tennyson albums, the Lateef is dreary disco funk and track 2 of the Uppchurch is Ave Maria (!) without a hint of irony and sans tongue in cheek! Unspeakable. Till now I have been largely happy with this series, though it has its share of clunkers- the Grant Green was awful and I steered clear of some others, but it seems that too many of these issues are from the Soul subsidiary Kudu repackaged under the parent CTI label. I for one am going to be mighty careful in future! Is this the best they can dig up? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robviti Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 IMHO, there are a number of artists who were at their creative peak while at CTI... yes, it can be argued that the artistic potential of people like freddie and stanley was at a high point during the late 60s and early 70s. but to conclude that what they recorded for cti is the best they had to offer is, imo, nonsense. there were a few gems, to be sure. however, even these recordings carry the mark of producer creed taylor that makes them sound dated. in the end, i predict the majority of cti's output will be doomed to relative obscurity, and rightly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 I have to disagree, brownie. IMHO, there are a number of artists who were at their creative peak while at CTI. Freddie Hubbard was one of them. While I don't think any of Hubbard's Blue Note material (with the exception of maybe "Ready for Freddie") can be really deemed as classic, his CTI work ranks amongst the best jazz had to offer from about 1967 to the present. One need only listen to "Red Clay" or "Straight Life" to understand what I'm talking about. Turrentine also put out a numer of classic albums during this period. "Sugar," for example, was soul jazz at its purest. This is where we disagree. As far as I am concerned, both Hubbard and Turrentine settled in a formula style when they switched to CTI. Obviously they played along with Creed Taylor's production criterias. Those albums were lavishly recorded and designed for stronger sales potential. Nothing wrong with that. But both lost their souls there. Turrentine's stuff on BN was good enough to produce one of the best Mosaic sets. I don't think that the albums he recorded for CTI would warrant a Mosaic set (besides the copyright problems involved). Same goes for Hubbard. But that's just my opinion and don't let what I think prevent you from enjoying those CTI albums I have enjoyed some of those albums too. But when given the choice, I'll play the BN ones more often... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Underground Agent, I agree with you that CTI with Freddie and Stanley released some great stuff with their small group recordings, also Johnny Hammond's "Breakout" is a good one too, ditto Hubert Laws' "Afro Classic". I also have Benson's "Beyond the Blue Horizon" out from the library, always intended to buy a copy, but it was right there in the library so I checked it out immediately. However some of CTI's larger projects, I think of ones I'm familiar with, like "Sky Dive", "Morningstar", "Sunflower", and "First Light" (not the tune, but album) sag under the weight of the orchestrations. I think we should remember too that CTI was a label built of its time where audiences were being turned on to jazz, and compared to today and the smooth jazz "product" that gets funneled to a large audience, CTI was a class act by comparison. Also CTI was a label I grew up on addition to Blue Note, so some albums, like "CTI Summer Jazz at the Hollywood Bowl" have a relevance to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undergroundagent Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 I certainly don't think Turrentine's best work was for CTI. Far from it. I do, however, think that Hubbard's output was a million times better for Creed Taylor than it ever was for Alfred Lion. It just doesn't compare in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 I'll put RED CLAY & STRAIGHT LIFE up against anything Freddie's ever done in terms of energy and groupal unity. The rest of the CTI stuff goes into something else, and it's good for what it is, but what it is ain't loose and open small group jazz, except for KEEP YOUR SOUL TOGETHER, although by then, Freddie was well into his "star trip" trumpetisticalluraly. T? Man, Stanley's Stanley no matter WHAT context you put him in. I happen to think quite highly of Stanley's CTI output. No, it's not the same context (contexts, actually) as the BN years, but he plays great on all of them, and the production and arrangements are impeccable. Whether or likes them or not is one thing, but if one doesn't, it's because one does not like the flavor, not because the recipe was faulty and/or poorly executed. Milt Jackson did some of his very best leader work on CTI as well (been playing the shit outta SUNFLOWER lately). When the formual worked, it put great soloists into a different context than a blowing session, which as much as we all like that kind of thing is not the only venue for an artist to make satisfying music for either themselves or audiences. The ensemble arrangements were usually added on after the fact, so what you get is essentially the benefits of a small group record w/the "luxury" of what was more often than not interestingly written accompanying ensembles. The records had a distinct identity apart from the jazz norm. If that identity was of a populist/popular bent, oh well, and bfd. When it worked, that is. After a while, it did get predictable, and as the label's original artists cashed in and left the label, their replacements were not as distinctive and/or didn't fit with the formula as well. But the first 2-3 years of the CTI output works just fine for me far more often than not as part of a well-balanced musical diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Š.Š. Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Paul Desmond's "Skylark" one is beautiful. Jim Hall's Concerto is pretty phenomenal as well. One my favorite Hall discs. And Joe Farrel's "Moon Germs" is at least interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hey at least you didn't buy the Japanese 24 bit Lateef that came out about five years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Yusef has indeed done better work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 listening to my vinyl of art farmers "crawl space" right now. i like 70s fusion funk stuff, though i find the excessive orchestration annoying on many CTI albums. this farmer one is ok. generally i dislike the gadd/lee rhythm section-but considering this is them plus dave grusin on the keys it is funking along alright. that is actually my main problem with CTI, too much steve gadd and will lee. wish they used some more soulful players, i think the hubbard/turrentine live albums with herbie and dejohnette are pretty sweet. nice version of "hornets". and joe farrell has a number of good CTI albums-"upon this rock" rocks. and gabor szabo has some good stuff too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMP Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Not sure if Hubbard and Turrentine's best work is on "CTI," but it was far superior to their subsequent material on (respectively) "Columbia" and "Fantasy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 CTI put out some barkers but I liked some of the stuff that they put out. Airto is one name that comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 CTI put out some barkers but I liked some of the stuff that they put out. Airto is one name that comes to mind. Oh HELL yeah! FINGERS is a MUTHA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 and joe farrell has a number of good CTI albums-"upon this rock" rocks. Hell yeah!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 (edited) Randy Weston, Blue Moses definitively not his best, but this one would deserve a CD appearance! ubu (edited to add the title, as the jpg's unreadable) Edited July 7, 2004 by king ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILLYQ Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 and joe farrell has a number of good CTI albums-"upon this rock" rocks. Hell yeah!!! Hell Yeah for me too- Joe Beck plays some smokin' guitar on that. If I recall correctly, 'Penny Arcade' was also pretty good. CTI did produce a lot of oveproduced glop. I used to get every new release for free around 1974/5. My sister was going out with a guy who worked in the mailroom at CTI, so he would grab promo copies of every new release and mail them to me. There was a lot of stuff they released that would have been much better if they released it without the post-production strings, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 I like "Fingers" by Airto also "Virgin Land" I would dearly love to see them both reissued. Also along with the Joe Farrells that were mentioned I would like to see Farrell's "Canned Funk" reissued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 Will the CTI Japan releases ever see the light of day on CD in the U.S.? I'm looking for Art Farmer's Live In Tokyo to fill a void in my Jackie McLean 'complete' collection. This is one rarity I've never even seen on vinyl. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Pusey Posted July 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 Seems there is some good stuff yet to see the light of day on cd. Several of you mention Airto,the recent batch included` FreeĀ“. Should I buy or steer clear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 If you like the first ECM Return To Forever, but with a meatier groove, Free is good for you. The reissue policy of CTI was always strange: some of the musically best or most interesting were available for only a short time or remain unissued on CD, or perhaps only in Japan: most of the Joe Farrell LPs Airto's Fingers and Virgin Land Randy Weston's Blue Moses New York Jazz Quartet Ron Carter's All Blues with Joe Henderson some Hubert Laws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Seems there is some good stuff yet to see the light of day on cd. Several of you mention Airto,the recent batch included` FreeĀ“. Should I buy or steer clear? You can't go wrong with any of the CTI Airto's IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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