Monk's box on Prestige and more

[Alon Marcus]

I would like to start a thread on Thelonious' box on prestige but discussion and comparison to any other of his sets is welcomed too. The box includes 3 discs and I have for more than a year. Purchased it on the same day with another 3 classic riversides (Brilliant corners, Misterioso and Monk's music) and it took some time till its true musical value was clear to me.

The most important and interesting session is probably the one with Miles Davis, Milt Jackson, Percy Heath and Kenny Clarke. The playing is great by each one of the participants although the relationship between Miles and Thelonious were really bad. Apparently Miles didn't like his comping. For me the best tune out of this session is the challenging Gershwin's "The man I love".

The set includes other surprises like the early recordings with Coleman Hawkins. These show that Monk was essentially a stride pianist and had little to do with bebop. Of course – he was the most advanced and original stride pianist ever!

The "Bye – Ya" track on the first disc is astonishing. Probably by accident, Art Blakey builds not less but rock rhythms that historically were to be invented only some years later.

For those who like his teaming with Rollins there are plenty of them on the first and second cd's. Another interesting appearance is by a Count Basie alumni – Frank Foster.

What do you think about this set when compared to his other boxes?

[B. Goren.]

Alon,

The other sets, Blue Note & Riverside, are much more important.

[jazzbo]

I'm not sure I would say that. . . each has their own identity and importance. The Blue Note may be possibly more "important" overall, and I love the Blue Note material . . . but I also love the Prestige.

The trio material in this box set is amazing! Not one "bad" session in the batch, either, and a variety of players and ensembles. And the remastered sound on the box set is very good!

The Prestige box is eaiser to digest and assimilate than the Riverside set as well, which is four times as large and is quite varied as well. . . . The bottom line (in my estimation) is if you like Monk at all, you'd probably be happy with any. . . and all. . . these sets.

[John L]

Opinions differ, but I consider the Bag's Groove session with Bags, Miles, Klook et al to be one of the greatest existing jazz recordings, immediate desert island material for me.

That is already 1/3 of the set. As my Avatar suggests, the trio recordings on Prestige are also among my very favorite Monk records, despite the out-of-tune piano. Then you have Friday the 13th with Rollins and other stellar material. No, I wouldn't take this set too lightly, even relative to the magnificent Blue Note and Riverside boxes. The fact is, you need all three, and still won't survive without a good dose of Monk on Columbia.

That is just my extremely biased and subjective opinion.

Edited August 27, 2004 by John L

[B. Goren.]

..... and still won't survive without a good dose of Monk on Columbia.

I agree.

[king ubu]

I rate the Prestige dates very very highly. Only because they did such a bad deal (what was that, can't remember for sure - Keepnews "bought" him for 103 something $$?), that does not mean the music is not up to what Monk was doing in those years.

I agree with John L on both the trio sides and the date with Miles and Bags - essential! (I also agree on the Columbias, by the way.)

It seems to me that many, far too many people consider Monk's BN and Riverside output to be far ahead of what he put on disc for Prestige and Columbia. I have to disagree with that, by all accounts.

ubu

[ralphie_boy]

I like the Prestige box very much, especially the early sides with Hawkins. It's great to hear Rollins in his formative years as well.

[JSngry]

I prefer the Prestige material to the Blue Note.

[Alon Marcus]

Bentsy, I must agree with you. I don't have nor the "Blue note" neither the "Riverside" boxes, but from the albums Monk made for these labels (Especially the three riversides I mentioned earlier and "Thelonious himself"), you must be right.

The prestige box still contains surprises not obvious in first listens. One thing is the quintet with Blakey, Curley Russell, Ray Copeland and Frank Foster. What strikes me the most is the supreme bass by Russell. When the melodies are played he always contributes a kind of a complimentary counterpoint. He's walking lines are pretty ambiguous when combined with Thelonious' harmonies on the piano. This kind of bass playing is very forward looking into the styles of guys like La Farro and Haden.

[Shawn]

I prefer the Prestige material to the Blue Note.

Agreed!

[RDK]

The Blue Note sides hold a special place in my heart because it was the first Monk I'd ever heard/owned, but I'd have to agree that the Prestige (and even moreso, the Riverside) albums are "better" and more interesting to me now. But then there ain't no bad Monk...

[MartyJazz]

Bentsy, I must agree with you. I don't have nor the "Blue note" neither the "Riverside" boxes, but from the albums Monk made for these labels (Especially the three riversides I mentioned earlier and "Thelonious himself"), you must be right.

The prestige box still contains surprises not obvious in first listens. One thing is the quintet with Blakey, Curley Russell, Ray Copeland and Frank Foster. What strikes me the most is the supreme bass by Russell. When the melodies are played he always contributes a kind of a complimentary counterpoint. He's walking lines are pretty ambiguous when combined with Thelonious' harmonies on the piano. This kind of bass playing is very forward looking into the styles of guys like La Farro and Haden.

The version this group does of "Locomotive" is terrific. One of the great "train" pieces of all time (along with Duke's "Daybreak Express").

[jazzbo]

I have to stand up for the BN output: simply amazing in its invention and it paved the way. . . .

The RVGs of those dates just floor me every time, they really brought out the sound!

[B. Goren.]

The Blue Note sides hold a special place in my heart because it was the first Monk I'd ever heard/owned.

The complete Blue note recordings of TM was the first set I've ever bought. And regarding Monk's session with Miles: If my memory serves me correctly you can find this session on the complete Prestige recordings of Miles, which is another essential set.

[JSngry]

...the BN output: simply amazing in its invention and it paved the way. . . .

Agreed, but I've always found there to be an aura of "presentation" to them that the Prestige sides lack, and in this instance, for the particular material involved, the verite approach of the Prestige dates works better for me.

Then again, maybe it's just the 78 vs LP thing coming into play.

No matter, it's all part of a whole, and I'd not be without any of it.

[Alon Marcus]

wtf? i didn't sign up for the LARGE PRINT edition. (not yet.)

clem

Clem, you confused me with your post.

What did you mean ?

[jazzbo]

Hmmm. . . that "aura of presentation" seems to be on an awful lot of Blue Note from 1939 til . . . . It's Alfred Lion's way of producing a session?

[JSngry]

Exactly.

And I just like the looseness of the Prestige dates better (this is merely a question of degree, mind you), although again, that might be due to the differences in 78 vs 33 1/3 presentations, or it might be due to the evolution of the drummers, or whatever.

It probably is an evolutionary thing, because the last two BN sessions are my favorites in terms of just putting them on and listening for fun, and they most resemble the Prestige dates, in terms of the playing "style" of the band.

Just one of those things!

[jazzbo]

I understand, but those first sessions. . . there's really nothing like them beforehand, they're stunningly powerful!

I still think the BN sessions are da shitte. . . though I have every bit of Monk I possibly CAN have and really don't have favorites, I can put on any of them and be in Wonderland.

[Shrdlu]

I'm a big fan of Monk's Prestige material, and have been since the LP days. There are real treasures there. They are essential Monk, no question. The session with Miles and Bags is definite desert island stuff! And those three fantastic quartet tracks with Rollins, otherwise scattered over two or more albums, are wonderful, with a feeling of inevitability about the solos; they are so satisfying. If only they had recorded more that just those three that day.

[Leeway]

I have the Prestige box. I wouldn't rate it quite as highly as the Blue Note material (although close enough) but I still consider it essential, and certainly a must for anyone interested in Monk.

I would also add that the sound quality on this set is particularly good, right up there with the remastered RVG "Genius" Vols. 1 and 2.

[wolff]

Interesting thread.

Why no mention of Black Lion/Vogue? Just heard some for the first time and really like it.

What is the Davis Prestige date being referred to? Modern Jazz Giants?

I really can't choose between the output of one labal over another. I have a little from each label. If I had to choose, I would go with the Riverside output. Followed closely by the Blue Note titles.

I still think in terms of individual albums, not box sets, when doing this kind of comparison.

[B. Goren.]

Why no mention of Black Lion/Vogue? 

You are absolutely right. The 3 CDs set on Black Lion is among Monk's best (and last) recordings. I have a special weakness to Monk's performance of "The Man I Love". Beautiful solo palying.

[ajf67]

I don't really think of the various periods of Monk's music to be different qualitatively as much as I think of them as just being different. Each period brings its own rewards. But, I do tend to think of the Blue Notes as a kind of Rosetta Stone to his music, the "originals" that he expanded on thoughout his career.

I also want to echo the comments on the Columbias, particularly "It's Monk's Time," "Monk"s Dream," and the Solo album.

[Enterprise Server]

I don't really think of the various periods of Monk's music to be different qualitatively as much as I think of them as just being different. Each period brings its own rewards.

I totally agree. It appears as if some people want to make Monks various recordings for a particular label appear as if it is a foot race to the finish line for the number one ranking. I believe there are equally enjoyable and musically significant recordings in the Prestige, Blue Note, Riverside and Columbia recordings. It amazes me how someone can qualitatively elevate one recording period over another. Even though I am very partial towards the Prestige recordings since I first cut my teeth on Monks music on that particular label, I consider the Riverside, Blue Note and Columbia recordings just as critical and important. B-)