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Mosaic Lp sets: Analog or Digital masters?


porcy62

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I started to buy some Mosaic Lp sets, assuming they come from analog masters, but I discovered in the Classic Records Inc' topic that the Nichols set is: "Digital transfers: Ron McMaster".

I have the Candid Mingus set and is "mastered by RVG" as stamped on dead wax, the word "digital" did not compare in any place on the booklet.

I am not paranoid about digital, I do have cds and I do listen to them (sometimes), but because of the price's big difference from Lp and Cd sets I would like to know for what I throw my money.

May you check your sets and submit some information about it?

It will be greatly appreciated.

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The Art Hodes set (Mosaic 114) does not mention digital transfers.

The Herbie Nichols set (Mosaic 118) mentions the digital transfers. But my ears tell me the transfers are excellent. I have a Lexington adress copy of the BN original LP (near mint copy) and the Mosaic sounds a shade better!

No time now to check other vinyl sets.

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Beginning with Brochure # 10 from Summer 1993, announcing the first Q-LPs - the Louis Armstrong 50's All-Stars, the Buck Clayton Jam Sessions, the Mingus '59 CBS Sessions and the Don Cherry Blue Notes as New Releases !

According to Brochure No 10, the following vinyl sets are digital:

MR6-120 - Paul Desmond 4tet w/ Jim Hall

MR3-121 - Ike Quebec 45 Sessions

MR4-122 - Chet Baker Pacific Jazz Studio

MR23-123,MR23-128 & MR20-134 - the 3 Commodore sets

MR6-127 - Cecil Taylor Candid

MR10-129 - Charlie Parker Dean Benedetti

MR9-130 - T-Bone Walker

MR4-131 - Stan Getz 5tet w/ Jimmy Raney

MR5-132 - George Lewis Blue Notes

MR12-135 - Count Basie Live Roulettes

MR6-136 - Stan Kenton Holman/Russo

MR9-137 - Larry Young Blue Notes

MR27-138 - Nat Cole Capitols

MR5-139 - Otis Spann/Lightin' Hopkins Candids

The Brochure lists the following sets as analog:

MR4-106 - Tina Brooks Blue Notes

MR4-111 - Charles Mingus Candids

MR4-112 - Thelonious Monk Black Lion & Vogue

MR5-118 - Herbie Nichols Blue Notes

MR3-124 - Freddy Redd Blue Notes

MR6-140 - Master Jazz Piano

MR10-141 - Art Blakey Blue Notes

MR4-142 - Woody Shaw CBS

All of the "new" Q vinyl as of Brochure No 10 is listed as analog.

The mastering of the then sold out vinyl sets is not addressed:

MR4-101 - Thelonious Monk Blue Notes

MR5-102 - Gerry Mulligan/Chet Baker Pacific Jazz & Capitol

MR3-103 - Albert Ammons/Meade Lux Lewis Blue Notes

MR5-104 - Clifford Brown Blue Note & Pacific Jazz

MR3-105 - Art Pepper Pacific Jazz

MR4-107 - Ike Quebec/John Hardee 40's

MR1-108 - Port of Harlem

MR4-109 - Edmond Hall/James P. Johnson/Sidney De Paris/Vic Dickenson

MR6-110 - Sidney Bechet Blue Notes

MR4-113 - Chet Baker Live Pacific Jazz

MR5-114 - Art Hodes Blue Notes

MR1-115 - Benny Moten/Jimmy Hamilton Blue Notes

MR5-116 - Bud Powell Blue Notes

MR5-117 - Buddy DeFranco/Sonny Clark Verves

MR1-119 - Pete Johnson/Earl Hines/Teddy Bunn

MR6-125 - Shorty Rogers Atlantic & EMI

MR6-126 - Johnny Hodges 1951-1955

MR5-133 - Grant Green/Sonny Clark Blue Notes

Mosaic started issuing CDs in the spring of 1990 and did not put the Monk Blue Notes (MR4-101), the Clifford Brown (MR5-104), the Art Pepper (MR3-105), the Tina Brooks (MR4-106),any of the single LPs - Port of Harlem, Morton/Hamilton, Johnson/Hines/Bunn -, the Commodores or the Johnny Hodges 1951-1955 on CD.

Edited by charlesp
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I don't know whether any of the following really answers the question, but the non-Q LP Mosaic sets I have state the following:

Art Pepper: No mention of mastering or recording other than crediting Dick Brock with producing the original sessions

Thelonious Monk Blue Note: Credits "Original disc transfers by Rudy Van Gelder or by Michael Cuscuna and Ron McMasters (sic); Tape transfers and remix by Bert Agudelo and Michael Cuscuna"

Sidney Bechet: "Tape and disc transfers: Ron McMasters (sic)"

Ike Quebec/John Hardee: "Original discs retransferred to tape by Ron McMasters (sic)"

Johnny Hodges 1951-55: "Mastering engineer Rudy Van Gelder" No other mention of processing. There is no Van Gelder mark in the dead wax, although that may not mean a thing.

p.s. I added the (sic) after references to Ron McMaster because I have otherwise seen his name without the "s"

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According to Brochure No 10, the following vinyl sets are digital:

MR6-120 - Paul Desmond 4tet w/ Jim Hall

MR3-121 - Ike Quebec 45 Sessions

MR4-122 - Chet Baker Pacific Jazz Studio

MR23-123,MR23-128 & MR20-134 - the 3 Commodore sets

MR6-127 - Cecil Taylor Candid

MR10-129 - Charlie Parker Dean Benedetti

MR9-130 - T-Bone Walker

MR4-131 - Stan Getz 5tet w/ Jimmy Raney

MR5-132 - George Lewis Blue Notes

MR12-135 - Count Basie Live Roulettes

MR6-136 - Stan Kenton Holman/Russo

MR9-137 - Larry Young Blue Notes

MR27-138 - Nat Cole Capitols

MR5-139 - Otis Spann/Lightin' Hopkins Candids

Oh man, that's UGLY news :rcry

No reason to pay big bucks on EBAY for these bad puppies; might as well buy the CDs! :(

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I did a comparison of my LP version of the Thelonious Monk Blue Note Mosaic with my old 1989 Ron McMaster CDs and they sounded identical to my ears. Bummer.

I think you are OK on the Cherry set though, because if the above post is correct, the Q LPs are analogs.

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Once Mosaic started issuing "Q-LPs" with MQ4-143 - Charles Mingus 1959 CBS, all vinyl issues purport to be analog except as follows:

parts of MQ7-153 - Charles Brown Alladins ( LPs 1,2 & side one of LP 3 )

parts of MQ10-155 - Amos Milburn Alladins ( Lps 1,2,3,4 & side one of LP 5 )

parts of MQ6-165 - Illinois Jacquet 1945-50

most of MQ10-163 - Stan Kenton Capitol Studio

parts of MQ11-164 - Miles Davis/Gil Evans ( LPs 1,8,9,10 & 11 )

Winter 1998 - Mosaic started issuing New Releases ( except for Horace Parlan and completing the Miles Davis series ) on CD only.

MQ9-191 - Miles/Trane - analog

MQ8-197 - Horace Parlan - analog

MQ5-209 - Miles Silent Way - analog

MQ10-226 - Miles '63/'64 Sessions due in October 2004

Edited by charlesp
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According to Brochure No 10, the following vinyl sets are digital:

MR9-137 - Larry Young Blue Notes

CRAP!!

Is this the sound of the high bidder for the Larry Young Mosaic on EBAY? ;)

This really bums me out about the Young too the more I think about it. His vinyl is so pricey that I guess I'll be settling for RVG or plain old CD versions of this stuff. Or bid for the Mosaic CD set at some point.

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Sorry to be the source of a bummer .....

I have a couple of the Mosaics that I know to be digital and like them anyway - the Paul Desmond 4tet w/ Jim Hall & the Stan Getz w/ Jimmy Raney.

If anyone can confirm the mastering of the vinyl set sold out by the summer of 1993, please do so.

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You guys are cracking me up. They do sound better than the corresponding cds, you know. At least I think so.

Do I detect a little snobism? ;)

Can't wait for you to start dumping your bad Mosaic digital vinyl.

Mainly, I just like to know what I'm getting. I like the digital mastered sets I have(let's hope it holds true with my incoming Larry Young set) and will keep buying them. The only one I've compared is the Desmond/Hall and I kept the LP.

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Isn't this supposed to be a discussion group about MUSIC? :wacko:

I hear ya Chuck. But you HAVE stumbled into the VINYL thread, where geeks like us get to talk to other geeks about our love for analog. THe music is obviously most important and first, but this specific issue is also about getting what you pay for and expected out of a product. I suspect that most of the concerns expressed here come from the same place that mine do, which is that I love the sound of analog recordings and strive to find LPs that come as close as possible to the original product that was recorded in the studio (this doesn't always mean the oldest "label" or pressing, just the one that most accurately reproduces the recorded music it contains). In Mosaic, I had been under the impression that their LP issues were analog, and that they did go back to original tapes, etc. Finding out that they don't always is a disappointment, but not something that trumps the music within.

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You guys are cracking me up. They do sound better than the corresponding cds, you know. At least I think so.

Do I detect a little snobism? ;)

Can't wait for you to start dumping your bad Mosaic digital vinyl.

Sorry guys, it seems I opened the pandora's box of your worst nightmare!!

I agree with Dimitri, at least in my system the Lps sounds usually better anyway.

I compared the Zappa's vinyls issued in the boxes "the old masters" in mid eighties (digitally remastered by FZ) with the cds (digitally remastered and remixed by FZ just before Frank's death).

The Lps are better in my opinion.

I compared also some of the first pressing promo copies I have from Zappa's own collection (all analog) and they sound different (usually better, but not always).

Even the "digitally recorded" ECM Lps sound better than cds.

I was asking myself if to upgrade my Mosaic cd with Mosaic Lp worth the money, an analog master was a good point.

Edited by porcy62
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