The CONNS are coming!

[sjarrell]

Anybody compared the JRVG/Conn of Easterly Winds?

[sal]

I'm with those who aren't deen on "Of Love and Peace". This is the first Larry Young session I've heard that I just don't like. The band sounds lost most of the time. Not the best example of "free jazz". And the trumpet is quite annoying.

[Guest ariceffron]

what was it that m. fitzgereld and ed sinnawich were referring to when they were saying Tom E. said to go fuck yourselves, re: the Bn board. did he really personally snub you guys? i dont remember any offical statement on his part on the closing....what is it that actually happened?

[bertrand]

I don't think he actually said 'go fuck yourselves', but he did say something like 'I don't owe anybody any explanations'.

Bertrand.

[DrJ]

As I often do I've been re-listening to the sessions I'm going to be snagging new Conns of very soon - this included:

CONTOURS - a great, great session no doubt but I was struck on listening again that Rivers himself is strangely subdued. It's ultimately Hancock, Chambers, and Hubbard who seem spotlighted. Herbie and Chambers in particular, they put on a friggin' clinic of outish post-bop playing on the first cut, Hancock getting off a solo that rivals his masterpieces on Miles' "Circle" and Hutch's "Components" from around that same time. Hubbard gets a WHOLE lot of solo space, and sounds like he often did on these types of date: bravely game and hitting the mark more often than you might expect, but at other times spinning his wheels with pet Spanish-tinge licks (the tone is never short of beautiful, but he never sounded comfortable to me on this type of recording - he could play "out" more convincingly, but a different kind of "out" than Rivers went for). Highly worthy, I'll be interested to listen for differences in sonics. Carter's bass is fairly quiet and I don't think it's him playing intentionally softly, it's a recording thing - but my system has good bass response and he's still very audible and enjoyable - and I like what he does here.

OF LOVE AND PEACE - other than a really rousing, no-hold-barred "Seven Steps to Heaven" this is merely good Young, not great, but that's still worth listening to. Young's post-UNITY recordings to me are almost defined by their very inconsistency and failure to reach the very lofty marks he seemed to be striving for. I don't think he always had the caliber of supporting musician to realize his vision (witness the trumpet on this one) - even when he had greats with him like Lee Morgan it was often a "wrong guy, wrong place" phenomenon. I also think part of the problem was that his vision was a little fuzzy, it never quite gelled into an actual conception or approach that he was able to communicate to other musicians. But this stuff still makes for a fascinating, worthy listen and sounds very fresh and modern, not all that very far off from the current "downtown scenes" in some of the larger cities in America. Young's organ sound is also a joy, instantly identifiable and refreshingly different.

Have DANCE WITH DEATH ALREADY. After the above, EASTERLY WINDS and NOW (I only have that one as a dub from a cassette copy!) will be next, then Horace (never heard that one at all).

Edited October 19, 2004 by DrJ

[wesbed]

Jack Wilson, Easterly Winds.

This session must have been a breath of fresh air in 1967. Or, a breath of wonderfully refreshing, comfortable, old-fashioned, stale air. There is some damned nice playing here. Nothing incredibly provocative or boundary breaking. Rather, good, wholesome, old school, solid material. Most excellent.

The first tune, Do It, starts the album and gives a hint of yet another Sidewinder wanna-be. Soon, you realize Jack Wilson is not going the way of the Sidewinder and he creates a very nice opening number. This session offers no distorted, electric, beginning of fusion sounds. No odd Duke Pearson-esque vocals (although it is produced by Pearson). No "I wanna sound just like late Trane" attempts. No wailing Miles Davis-style trumpet.

Again, only good old-fashioned, handsome, bop offered here. Wilson reminds me of the sublime, light-touch style of Red Garland. Lee Morgan and Jackie McLean offer solid, stable, stylish playing. Sometimes, to me, in the spirit of the Leeway session. Garnett Brown's trombone is quite good and fits the session in a perfect sort of way. Bob Cranshaw and Billy Higgins offer their usual strong support.

The Easterly Winds session falls, to my ears, somewhere between Leeway, The Sidewinder, and Joe Henderson's Page One. Yet, in a certain inexplicable way, is stronger than all three.

I'm enjoying this session very much. I believe I would have been falling head-over-heels for this type of material in 1967.

[Tony Pusey]

I am playing Now at the moment, and I am begining to think that this is the most consistently engrossing batch of Cons for a long while. Got them all except Easterly Winds ( I have the TOCJ) and I like them all even the Horace which I had been apprehensive about-perhaps I am going soft in my old age!

[ejp626]

I also recently purchased Easterly Winds, along with Now and Dance with Death. I certainly like the Wilson date, but I have to listen to it again. My comment has more to do with the first photo in the liner notes. Bob Cranshaw and Billy Higgins look completely stoned off their gourds. And perhaps that was the case, but perhaps a little cropping would have been in order.

[DrJ]

EASTERLY WINDS is a good one, listened in the car this AM to the TOCJ. I'm still not that enthused about the first cut, it may be more creative than most of the "Sidewinder" wanna bes but it still sounds somewhat dated and half-hearted to me (Billy Higgins just never seemed to be in to a lot of those types of tunes - his rolls and fills at such times sound almost tongue-in-cheek).

But the rest of the record is quite strong, with a lovely ballad and some nice modal up tempo numbers. McLean takes solo honors for me, sounding quite like his usual self and bringing an edge that is much needed, while Morgan is a little laid back but still great. Wilson peels off some nice ideas, though I would never be able to pick him out of a piano players' line up blindfolded, and it's ALWAYS good to hear Garnett Brown get some solo space.

It's worth noting that the sound on the TOCJ is not fantastic - it sounds very much "veiled" with the high end rolled off, unusually for that series. It could very well be in the original tapes (it has that kind of "distant" sound that many later 60's BN had, so very different than the nice, intimate sound of stuff from earlier vintage), OR the Japanese may not have had access to the original master and had to use an inferior later generation copy or even may had to have dubbed it from LP. I'll have to listen on my home reference system to see if I can pick up any tell-tale surface noise.

The point is, it will be interesting to A/B compare with the Conn.

Back to CONTOURS: I snagged the Conn yesterday and listened in the evening. Overall, it's a clear sonic improvement over the Mosaic box. The bass has been boosted a bit, most definitely - so those of you who felt it was quiet on the Conn would REALLY be dissatisfied with the Mosaic version! That sacrifices just a little bit of clarity on the high end, but it's still more than acceptable and overall there is better balance throughout the dynamic range and also some increased sonic detail (possibly due to a higher sampling rate or some other techno advance since 1996 when the boxed set was done).

The good news is: the music still smokes! A truly timeless recording.

Edited October 21, 2004 by DrJ

[J.A.W.]

EASTERLY WINDS is a good one, listened in the car this AM to the TOCJ. I'm still not that enthused about the first cut, it may be more creative than most of the "Sidewinder" wanna bes but it still sounds somewhat dated and half-hearted to me (Billy Higgins just never seemed to be in to a lot of those types of tunes - his rolls and fills at such times sound almost tongue-in-cheek).

But the rest of the record is quite strong, with a lovely ballad and some nice modal up tempo numbers. McLean takes solo honors for me, sounding quite like his usual self and bringing an edge that is much needed, while Morgan is a little laid back but still great. Wilson peels off some nice ideas, though I would never be able to pick him out of a piano players' line up blindfolded, and it's ALWAYS good to hear Garnett Brown get some solo space.

It's worth noting that the sound on the TOCJ is not fantastic - it sounds very much "veiled" with the high end rolled off, unusually for that series. It could very well be in the original tapes (it has that kind of "distant" sound that many later 60's BN had, so very different than the nice, intimate sound of stuff from earlier vintage), OR the Japanese may not have had access to the original master and had to use an inferior later generation copy or even may had to have dubbed it from LP. I'll have to listen on my home reference system to see if I can pick up any tell-tale surface noise.

The point is, it will be interesting to A/B compare with the Conn.

Wasn't the TOCJ dubbed from vinyl? If I remember correctly, there was a thread or a series of posts about this on this forum some time ago.

[Tony Pusey]

I am now on the second volume of the Silver and it is, ahum, a bit ripe!

Interesting comments about Easterly, perhaps I will have to get a copy after all...

[DrJ]

JAW - as I mention in my post, it would not surprise me in the least to learn that the TOCJ of EASTERLY WINDS was dubbed from vinyl. I'll be able to tell tonite by listening on my home system.

So is the Conn also an LP dub?

[Ed S]

I ended up picking the 4 Conns that I did not already have as Mosaics. I bought Now from a board member and the Silver, Wilson, and Hill from CD Universe.

For whatever reason, I have a real affinity for the late sixties and early 70s BNs. Perhaps its because I'm from that era or maybe its because I've been able to look at these recordings on their own merit - for what they were and why they were - separately from the golden era of BN jazz. As a result, I've been able to get a lot of enjoyment out of some of the stuff that many seem to dislike - the Mizell Byrds, Bobbi Humphrey, the Grant Green stuff, Gary Bartz as well as some of the more accepted Rare Grooves. It doesn't hurt that I'm pretty easy to please either.

I have not given more than a cursory listen to the Hill and Wilson discs. I'll get to those later. Like a moth to flame, I was really drawn to the Silver and Hutcherson releases.

Hutcherson - Now!

I've got the Hutcherson in as I write and I guess I've listened to it at least a dozen times over the past week. I really dig it. Definitely a late 60s, early 70s fusiony vibe to the instrumental portions of the original album. I like that - lots of intensity, great percussion work, interesting guitar effects and enough of a mainstream jazz sound to keep it real.. Land is in fine form - as is Hutcherson. I do like the electric piano and like how it is used here as well. The vocals are something that have grown on me, despite the somewhat lame and/or dated lyrics. There is a portion of Hello to the Wind when Gene McDaniel moves from singing the lyrics into a series of vocalizations that is really outstanding. Lots of intensity in the entire piece. The Creators is another excellent track.

The material with the LA Philharmonic is first rate, IMO, and a welcome glimpse at this period of BN history. I personally give the Hutcherson a strong recommendation for its intensity, for the compositions, instrumentation and arrangements, and even for the vocals.

Horace Silver - United States of Mind

The Silver......oh my. I'll bet I've listened to this for at least a dozen times trying desparately to find something positive. Here it is - it's not bad when the front line trumpet and sax are loud enough to drown out the piano and create at least some semblance of recongnizable Horace Silver Sound. That occurs about 3 times on the entire two discs/28 tracks.

I don't think I've ever heard a worse Blue Note recording. The compositions are very weak. The lyrics are TERRIBLE and/or terribly dated. The song melodies are simple at best. I've heard more interesting radio jingles. I was never a big fan of Bey and had never heard the other Bey and this CD did nothing to change my opinion.

Worst of all is the instrumentation and sound. The guitar sounds like it was a some beginner 60s model. On a few songs the tambourine was so high in the mix that I could not help but think of that SNL skit with Will Farrell and the cow bell. I could almost hear the producer screaming "We need more tambourine". Even worse than that is the sound of Silver's keyboard. It sounds as if it was purchased for $39 at K-Mart. It also sounds as if he has no clue at all how to use electronic intruments to any effect at all at this point in his career.

There are so few even decent moments in this recording that I often found myself thinking that there is so much bad stuff on this record that it is not worth sitting through the horrible stuff to get to it. Nothing here is even tolerable, IMO. At it's best, it comes off sounding like the sound track to some really bad late 60's off off Broadway production about 60s values and social concerns using understudies of the understudies of the cast of godspell. I was practically waiting for a version of Springtime for Hitler. At it's worst, it totally sucks, and it's at its worst about 90% of the time.

Edited October 25, 2004 by Ed Swinnich

[Shrdlu]

Isn't it the case that all of the "Blue Note Works" TOCJs are derived either from vinyl, or from LP masters? This is what makes them so good - rather like my comment in another thread about CDrs taken from LPs (those sound better than Japanese 24 bit CDs, surface noise being a possible drawback, of course).

[DrJ]

Could be you're right Shrdlu, about the source material. But a couple points:

- I have always felt that home-job CD-R transfers of LPs sound miles better than most record company CDs transferred from LPs. I have no idea why this is - shouldn't be the case as far as I can tell, but there it is. Some of the best-sounding CDs in my collection are just straight up, no fancy stuff LP burns using my inexpensive Sony burner. Go figure!

- Some of the other "Blue Note Works" discs sound good to me but EASTERLY WINDS isn't one of them. Again could be that the original recording is the main culprit, but whatever, it sounds muffled and lacks bite. There's a vinyl quality in the sense that there's no harsh high end, but none of the transparency and dynamic range of a good LP.

[J.A.W.]

I have always felt that home-job CD-R transfers of LPs sound miles better than most record company CDs transferred from LPs. I have no idea why this is - shouldn't be the case as far as I can tell, but there it is. Some of the best-sounding CDs in my collection are just straight up, no fancy stuff LP burns using my inexpensive Sony burner. Go figure!

Some engineers who are doing mastering jobs for record companies are fiddling with the EQ by bumping up the high frequencies (and sometimes the lower frequencies as well) when they're transferring music from LPs or whatever source to CD. This manipulated EQ is sometimes described as a "happy smiley" EQ.

Edited October 29, 2004 by J.A.W.

[ASNL77]

There are a lot of posts on the Jack Wilson.I think it is a brilliant album.I have the JRVG edition and the sound is fantastic.I am thinking of buying the Larry Young CD.What do you think of it?

[sal]

There are a lot of posts on the Jack Wilson.I think it is a brilliant album.I have the JRVG edition and the sound is fantastic.I am thinking of buying the Larry Young CD.What do you think of it?

Search this thread, and you'll find many answers to your question.

[Big Al]

Well, here’s another vote for the Jack Wilson disc. I like what wesbed said, that it’s a breath of fresh air.

The booklet indicates that the Conn was taken from a 2nd-generation master, but doesn’t get any more specific than that.

Whatever. The music more than makes up for the lack of fidelity (if there is any; I don’t think it sounds any worse than some of those early OJC’s or McMasters from the 80’s). The horn voicings on the title track and “Frank’s Tune” (which has one of the loveliest chord sequences/vamps I’ve ever heard) are simply exquisite; dig the tinkling of the piano during the fadeout of the title track!

I’m so glad Blue Note put this one back in print. Happy music, if some ever existed!

[riverrat]

Anybody compared the JRVG/Conn of Easterly Winds?

I am also interested in how the JRVG and new Conn of Easterly Winds compare. What's the verdict?

[BFrank]

Apparently Ed didn't like the Horace Silver set.

To each his own.

I agree that the lyrics are dated, and maybe since I've been familiar with this music since the 70's, they don't bother me. I still feel that this stuff is a lot of fun - maybe not the most advanced technically - but very enjoyable.

FWIW, I haven't heard the new remasters, so I can't comment on the technical side of this. The LPs sounded fine to me.

[wesbed]

I'm listening to Larry Young's 'Of Love And Peace' as I type these words. About midway through the first song, Pavanne, I thought, "Who is playing the awesome drums on this record, Billy Higgins?" I didn't recall seeing the name of Elvin Jones on this session. Otherwise, I would have guessed Elvin Jones rather than Billy Higgins. I looked at the back of the CD cover and discovered Larry Young had two drummers playing.

I had another thought: The TWO drummers, together, sound like a SINGLE Elvin Jones.

[wolff]

First time I heard OLAP I thought, "lousy stereo recording, with the drums both left and right". Listened for another minute and realized it was 2 drummers.

And Ed, tell us how you really feel.

[Parkertown]

Which drummer is in which channel? Cuz the guy on the right sure seems to dominate...

[Guest akanalog]

i really didn't like the hill conn at first, but now i like it a lot. it is very subtle. if you listen casually it could seem dull or average but there is a lot of power under the surface. a lot of the credit goes to victor sproles in my opinion. his bass lines are pretty well-defined and powerful. sometimes i don't get these kind of basslines from people like ron carter, but it really enhances the music here. he adds a lot of ear catching punctuations. i am listening to track 5 right now and he is really making the thing move-although billy higgins is also playing a lot more, well i don't want to say creatively, but seems to be using an expanded sound palate on these cuts also.