Jazz at Massey Hall SACD?

[Rupertdacat]

Hi all.

Anybody know about the redbook (i.e. regular CD) layer on this disc? Is it the old mastering or the new K2? BMG music club is offering both the hybrid SACD and the K2 re-masteed redbook CD at the same price. As I do not currently own an SACD player, I would not be interested in the hybrid SACD unless its redbook layer was the K2 remastering.

Thanks,

Rupe

[J.A.W.]

I don't have the Jazz at Massey Hall SACD, but the CD layers of my hybrid Fantasy SACDs are new remasters, no K2s.

[RDK]

I'll check when I get home but I'm fairly certain this is a new remaster.

[WD45]

And how is that SACD mastering? I used to have the plain OJC issue and I remember not be excited about the fidelity. [not that it really matters, with Bird on it.]

[jacknife]

And how is that SACD mastering?

The SACD mastering in my opinion is hugely better than the ojc. Great music, but as far as the recording goes, you can't really pollish a turd! The original recording is just plain terrible, plastic sax and all. The sacd is listenable compared to my god aweful ojc disc.

[Aggie87]

bump....

I bought the SACD hybrid from yourmusic.com a while back, and am generally satisifed with it. I've listened to it a bit lately, going back and forth between this one and the amazing Uptown disc.

However, I also have to plead ignorance about this concert. I didn't realize there was a "Vol II" release (credited to Bud Powell), consisting of trio recordings from Powell/Mingus/Roach, until just recently. This OJC disc looks confusing to me though...there is stuff on it that ISN'T from the Massey Hall show but is played by the same trio, and there is also stuff on there that isn't even played by Powell, but by Billy Taylor.

So, just today I picked up Charlie Parker: Complete Jazz at Massey Hall, on Jazz Factory. Got it locally for cheap, however I also realize Jazz Factory and it's sister labels are grey area. BUT it seems to be the best (only?) way to get the complete concert (minus the tune "Bassically Speaking" which wasn't recorded (?)).

Concert set:

Quintet:

1. Perdido

2. Salt Peanuts

3. All the Things You Are/

4. 52nd Street Theme

Roach Solo:

5. Drum Conversation

Trio:

6. Cherokee

7. Embraceable You

8. Hallelujah (Jubilee)

9. Sure Thing

10. Lullaby of Birdland

11. I've Got You Under My Skin

Quintet:

12. Wee (Allen's Alley)

13. Hot House

14. A Night in Tunisia

"Bassically Speaking" was played between 9 & 10, according to the Jazz Factory notes. There was also another quintet performance afterwards, with the Graham Topping Band at the end of the show, which is also not included.

Is there a legitimate way to get the complete Massey Hall recordings, or is this Jazz Factory disc the best way to go?

edit - the Jazz Factory disc is also minus the Mingus overdubs, by the way...

Edited November 14, 2005 by Aggie87

[DMP]

I think the Mingus "Debut" box may have everything, but it's a big investment. (It also has 2 complete versions of the Parker/Gillespie set - both with and without the over-dubbed bass - and, if I recall correctly, a few additional seconds in there somewhere.) (Every other issue of the material I've ever heard has the dubbed bass.)

[AllenLowe]

1) I actually think the released recording of Massey Hall is in very decent fidelity -

BUT

2) If you've ever heard the version that is the ORIGINAL (before Mingus overdubbed) - it is MUCH better - it's a pity that Mingus messed with it -

[Daniel A]

One way to get all of the concert (possibly with the exception of the Max Roach solo piece) is to seek out the old Prestige 2-LP set "The Greatest Jazz Concert Ever". It was some time since I heard this, but the sound quality was probably not too impressive. I wouldn't have thought that this kind of recording would need any high-resolution format to sound as good as it can.

Edited November 14, 2005 by Daniel A

[Ron S]

I have that Jazz Factory disc also, and have wondered whether their "source" was in fact the Mingus Debut box. I've also wondered why Fantasy never released its own "complete" Massey Hall disc, including the trio tracks and without the Mingus overdub, since it included that material in the Debut box.

So Erik, what do you think of the sound on the Jazz Factory disc compared to the Fantasy SACD?

[Aggie87]

Regarding the SACD, I've only listened to the redbook layer. Don't have an SACD setup right now. And I actually have been listening more to the tracks on the Jazz Factory disc that I haven't already heard...the trio tracks.

I'll try and do an A/B comparison later and see, though. I'm guessing the SACD redbook is more recently remastered, if the JF disc is from other sources.

[Ron S]

I'd be interested in hearing what you think. Of course, they may sound identitcal.

[Aggie87]

I did a little listening last night, and a bit in my car this morning as well.

The JF disc does not have the bass overdubs, whereas the Debut disc does. So they don't sound identical to me. Otherwise the SACD may have a slightly brighter sound, but not significantly. The sound on the Jazz Factory disc is quite good, imho. I'm not an audiophile though, perhaps others have better ears (and systems) than I do.

Seconding, Ron's comments, I'd like to see a complete, official Massey Hall release from Fantasy - why wouldn't/haven't they done this, as it could easily fit on one cd?

Edited November 14, 2005 by Aggie87

[Dave James]

What with the acquisition of the Fantasy catalog by Concord, I tried to run some numbers to determine the probability of a release of the entire Massey Hall book, but my calculator didn't have enough zeroes to put behind the decimal point.

Up over and out.

[Ron S]

Incidentally, that Jazz Factory disc has been selling extremely well on Amazon, far outpacing the Fantasy OJC and 20-bit K2 issues. Those are sales that Fantasy--now Concord--probably would have had if they had issued their own "complete" disc including the trio tracks and without the Mingus overdubs. And I think they've really missed an opportunity by not having that out around the same time that the Uptown Town Hall disc was released. My impression is that, on Amazon at least, sales of the Jazz Factory disc have been boosted significantly by the buzz over the Town Hall disc (people buying Town Hall picking up a Massey Hall disc at the same time). I noticed that the Jazz Factory disc climbed to and has remained at number 2 or 3 on the Parker bestseller list on Amazon almost simultaneously with the release of Town Hall and its immediate ascendancy to number 1 on that list.

[Claude]

That's quite remarkable for a disc that is illegal in the US.

[Bluerein]

I have a Jazz at Massey Hall, vol.2 (Japanese 20 Bit K2 VICJ-2023) with the Trio tracks and the drum solo on it. Togehter with the regular Jazz at MH this should be all right? I recall the JaMH Japanese 20 Bit digital K2 to be sounding much better than the regular K2 I had. Maybe something to do with the bass not being overdubbed on the latter one?