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Larry Kart's jazz book


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No index? You must have gotten the wrong copy. :) Seriously, my recollection is that Yale said that it was not within their budget for a general interest book of this sort to have it indexed, though I could pay someone to do it or do it myself. The latter was tempting, but then I realized that indexing is a special skill, which I could of course acquire, but I probably couldn't acquire it and do the index for my own book within the time required. As for the first alternative, I'd already been told by Yale that they don't proofread manuscripts (at least of my sort), but that they could recommend a freelance proofreader who I would have to pay myself. That I did decide to do; the fee was maybe $800 or $1,000 and well worth it; he caught a lot of stuff and even said he enjoyed reading the book, though he wasn't a jazz fan. Even then, I might have sprung for an index too, except that I rightly figured that I'd never make a penny beyond my advance, and the money I'd spent on the proofreading had eaten up the advance. Also, I knew from experience that there are good, thorough indexes and just bald lists of names, and I didn't know how to ensure that I'd get a good one.

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No index? You must have gotten the wrong copy. :) Seriously, my recollection is that Yale said that it was not within their budget for a general interest book of this sort to have it indexed, though I could pay someone to do it or do it myself.

What a crappy attitude.

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Guest Bill Barton

I recently finished reading the book, Larry, and loved it. The proofreader definitely did a good job; there are way fewer obvious errors (in fact, I didn't see any!) than in most books of this size.

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No index? You must have gotten the wrong copy. :) Seriously, my recollection is that Yale said that it was not within their budget for a general interest book of this sort to have it indexed, though I could pay someone to do it or do it myself. The latter was tempting, but then I realized that indexing is a special skill, which I could of course acquire, but I probably couldn't acquire it and do the index for my own book within the time required. As for the first alternative, I'd already been told by Yale that they don't proofread manuscripts (at least of my sort), but that they could recommend a freelance proofreader who I would have to pay myself. That I did decide to do; the fee was maybe $800 or $1,000 and well worth it; he caught a lot of stuff and even said he enjoyed reading the book, though he wasn't a jazz fan. Even then, I might have sprung for an index too, except that I rightly figured that I'd never make a penny beyond my advance, and the money I'd spent on the proofreading had eaten up the advance.

Wow, it's like the record business only...bookier.

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Yale told me the same, come to think of it. Since my initial edition had an index, I decided to do it myself (i.e. update it), but it was a frustrating job, because Yale would only allow me a certain number of pages. Ergo, I had to leave out much that I would normally have included. Still, there are 8 pages--the Stein & Day version had 9, and it was half the length. On books that lend themselves to research, I think an index is essential, don't you?

As for proofreading, Yale did furnish a freelance editor and she was terrific--there are a couple of bad typos somewhere in Bessie, but it's mostly okay. One of my original editors, at Stein & Day, systematically removed initials from names, so I had to give them an argument to keep it "James P. Johnson", for example!

I look forward to reading the book, Larry.

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Yale told me the same, come to think of it. Since my initial edition had an index, I decided to do it myself (i.e. update it), but it was a frustrating job, because Yale would only allow me a certain number of pages. Ergo, I had to leave out much that I would normally have included. Still, there are 8 pages--the Stein & Day version had 9, and it was half the length. On books that lend themselves to research, I think an index is essential, don't you?

Thanks for jogging my memory. I'm pretty sure they said the same thing to me about the index being limited to a small number of pages. Also, I'd already had to trim about 40,000 words from the manuscript to make it fit their strict word limit/page count (all of this having to do with the number of signatures, a big cost factor) and was worried that with an index I'd have to cut more text. (BTW, in order to lose those 40,000 words, I didn't cut any pieces internally, just removed whole ones. The other way, I would have gone mad.) I agree about the need for indexes, but now that I think of it, I guess I was finally a bit numb about that problem with my own book because I knew/know myself where everything in it is. In fact, I can read almost any un-indexed book (e.g. a novel) and for some time afterwards find almost any memorable (i.e. to me) passage pretty quickly because I remember whether it was on a left- or righthand page, on what segment of the page it was, and in roughly what segment of the book that page is. Weird how that works.

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If I lived in Canadia, I would wonder where the French version is, not where the friggin' index is. :ph34r:

I don't know what the going language is in Canadia, but if you lived in Canada and could not read English, you might well wonder why you were so short-sighted.

It is easier for a Canadian to learn English than it is for any English-speaking person to commit 342 pages to memory.

Also, if you were a writer/researcher, you would surely want a book such as Larry's to have an index, even a friggin' one.

BTW, Whitney Balliett's New York Notes suffers the same handicap. The content of both books seriously lessens the pain while also underscoring the need.

:)

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  • 4 months later...

Hi Larry,

I just finished your book. I haven't read this thread, so my comments may be redundant. Anyhow, I really enjoyed it! You write with rare eloquence, style, and clarity. Your attention to detail, especially regarding the actual music involved is something to be admired. It seems that there are so many Jazz writers who glaze over what is happening with vague emotional descriptions and characteristic cliches, but you have succeeded in avoiding that.

I particularly enjoyed and gained new insight from these pieces:

-Notes and Memories of the New Music on Cecil Taylor

-Wilber Campbell--it seemed like you had a personal angle on this one

-Monk In Motion

-Roscoe Mitchell

-Jazz in the Global Village

-The Neo-Con Game

Great stuff Larry!

-Jay

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Hi Larry,

I just finished your book. I haven't read this thread, so my comments may be redundant. Anyhow, I really enjoyed it! You write with rare eloquence, style, and clarity. Your attention to detail, especially regarding the actual music involved is something to be admired. It seems that there are so many Jazz writers who glaze over what is happening with vague emotional descriptions and characteristic cliches, but you have succeeded in avoiding that.

I particularly enjoyed and gained new insight from these pieces:

-Notes and Memories of the New Music on Cecil Taylor

-Wilber Campbell--it seemed like you had a personal angle on this one

-Monk In Motion

-Roscoe Mitchell

-Jazz in the Global Village

-The Neo-Con Game

Great stuff Larry!

-Jay

Many thanks. It never gets redundant from where I sit. :)

You're right about Wilbur Campbell; he was a remarkable, soulful, wise person as well as a great musician.

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Hi Larry,

I just finished your book. I haven't read this thread, so my comments may be redundant. Anyhow, I really enjoyed it! You write with rare eloquence, style, and clarity. Your attention to detail, especially regarding the actual music involved is something to be admired. It seems that there are so many Jazz writers who glaze over what is happening with vague emotional descriptions and characteristic cliches, but you have succeeded in avoiding that.

I particularly enjoyed and gained new insight from these pieces:

-Notes and Memories of the New Music on Cecil Taylor

-Wilber Campbell--it seemed like you had a personal angle on this one

-Monk In Motion

-Roscoe Mitchell

-Jazz in the Global Village

-The Neo-Con Game

Great stuff Larry!

-Jay

Many thanks. It never gets redundant from where I sit. :)

You're right about Wilbur Campbell; he was a remarkable, soulful, wise person as well as a great musician.

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Guest Bill Barton

Hi Larry,

Jazz In Search of Itself has moved onto the "most read" shelf after being in my collection for a few months now. It's definitely a book I would recommend to anyone as essential reading.

My Internet access has been pretty limited recently and I've missed the discussions on the board...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just out of curiosity, I was checking out the prices at Amazon...do you know that one guy has this book listed for $500? Does this come with the actual hand that Larry used to correct the galleys? :unsure:

Wow, and here I thought I was paying a lot by getting the hardcover at Borders the day it came out. It turns out it was a great bargain!

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Hi Larry,

I was going to just send you a PM on this but I thought I'd post my question as well, although I don't have your book, I have your liner notes to the Tristano, Konitz & Marsh Mosaic where you mention an unpublished 1973 interview with Warne Marsh by Terry Martin and John Litweiler. Is this interview available anywhere or would you know someone who would have either a hard or soft copy of it? Or does anyone else out there know anything about this interview? I was intrigued by Marsh's comment, "Lee would like to have Art's (Pepper) time", were there any other minor revelations like that in the interview?

Cheers in advance...

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My PM to Cliff:

I'll ask Terry and John, but AFAIK it's not available anywhere. I might have a copy myself; if I do, I'll ask the guys if it's OK to make a copy for you. But I'll report back in any case.

My memory may be awry here, but I think that the interview was fairly brief because Warne was not very verbal about music (at least not that day -- and he was talking to two very simpatico people), and that the parts I quoted were about it.

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