Noj Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 (edited) ...bobetterblues at JC made a great point that if someone threw a drink on someone at a bar the person who threw the drink would be due an ass whooping. There are so many potential variables in that scenario that to unequivicolly reach that single conclusion is really pretty dumb. Yes, I agree. I was joking (and so was bobetterblues). I should have put the " " Edited November 22, 2004 by Noj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjazz Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 When did players start laying down on the floor and tables, instead of sitting in their chair? When I saw the video clip, I was wondering why Artest was laying down on the table? Was he hurt? Was a doctor tending to him? Maybe the commissioner should have some rules on laying around too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 I'm afraid Brad is right on the money, TJazz. However, bobetterblues at JC made a great point that if someone threw a drink on someone at a bar the person who threw the drink would be due an ass whooping. Yes, that would solve everybody's problem. Violence is the answer. Hey, it has been deemed the answer in Iraq per Bush & The Gang. Perhaps Artest was simply following in the footsteps of our authority figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjazz Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 That brings up a good question - Who are the whimps in the MBA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 I'm afraid Brad is right on the money, TJazz. However, bobetterblues at JC made a great point that if someone threw a drink on someone at a bar the person who threw the drink would be due an ass whooping. Yes, that would solve everybody's problem. Violence is the answer. Hey, it has been deemed the answer in Iraq per Bush & The Gang. Perhaps Artest was simply following in the footsteps of our authority figures. Well, Larry Brown did say, in the post-game press conference last night, that he thinks the situation is indicative of our modern society. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 blame ben wallace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Well, Larry Brown did say, in the post-game press conference last night, that he thinks the situation is indicative of our modern society. I agree. No sh**! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 I agree with the suspensions. This gives sports a bad name. No one should be randomly hitting fans in the stands. I don't follow the NBA much anymore. I guess I just don't identify with its image of selfishness and self-promotion. The NFL, on the other hand, keeps all this stuff underwraps. I'm not sure if I necessarily agree with the "don't take your helmet off" rule in the NFL, but I'm starting to understand why they frown on self-promotion. I'm the first to say I love Terrell Owens' antics, but I wouldn't watch the NFL if their image followed the NBA's. TEAM should come first in the NFL; and it should come first in the NBA as well. Still, there should be some room for self-expression, which is what Terrell Owens and Chad Johnson search for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 At lunch today, I was down in the gym and they showed the hightlights, again, together with some of the other things he's done on the court, and frankly I was nauseated. Tjazz can say what he wants with whatever rationalizations he can make up (and he's obviously an NBA fan), but there's no excuse for a human being acting like that. I hope they throw the legal book at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp626 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Actually my wife asked me about the Sprewell suspension, and that was for 68 games, basically it was for the rest of the season at that point in time, so in fact, the two suspensions are basically equivalent. I guess we can argue all night about whether it is worse to attack the coach (undermining authority) or the fans (biting the hand that feeds you). It was sickening all the way around. The next question is, assuming that Stern is able to make these suspensions stick and Artest doesn't find an accomodating judge to overturn his suspension (Sprewell was never able to get his suspension overturned though he tried a few times), is any team going to trade for Artest. Indiana appears to be through with Artest. Despite the fact he has four years on his contract, I would be very suprised if the Pacers can't find some term in his contract that he violated to turn him loose if no one else will take him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 (edited) remember in scarface, when tony and crew was havin' some dinner ("say good night to the bad guy" scene) and elvira threw a glass of water on tony, after tony said, "her womb was polluted." tony didn't beat the shit outta her, cuz tony montana had class and self control ss1 artest pushed ben wallace in the side, i don't think he shoved wallace in the back stupid play when the game is basically over and the pacers had the game won. usa todayhas the nba's top 10 teams, the pistons aren't even on the list. wtf? Edited November 23, 2004 by Soulstation1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 It was a dirty, cheap foul by Artest given the score and the time left. If anyone, Ben Wallace might have been punished more severely than he deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 (edited) I'm afraid Brad is right on the money, TJazz. However, bobetterblues at JC made a great point that if someone threw a drink on someone at a bar the person who threw the drink would be due an ass whooping. Yes, that would solve everybody's problem. Violence is the answer. Sometimes it is....if someone threw a drink on you, what is your likely reaction going to be??? Thanks bud, I was getting a bit hot??? I am not a fan of Artest, but damn, if he really hit someone (His fellow teammates were better shots! ) or hit someone with a chair or something, that would be different. I could see suspending him for a month, or so but the whole season? I heard them say on espn that he was hit by a coin awhile back. He flipped the bird to the crowd, and he was fined 20K. Bet nothing at all happened to the guy who threw it at him. Now, any fan knows he can do ANYTHING he likes to a player, and the player will be afraid to do shit. Go to a game just once this year, toss a coin at an opposing player from a fair distance, and if no one sees you, you get away with it.... Yea, Artest was wrong, but the fan's behavior is taking a backseat. Hell, the guy who threw the beer on him has a long criminal record..... http://www.clickondetroit.com/sports/3938054/detail.html Edited November 23, 2004 by BERIGAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 tony didn't beat the shit outta her, cuz tony montana had class and self control ss1 That's Hollywood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Now, any fan knows he can do ANYTHING he likes to a player, and the player will be afraid to do shit. Go to a game just once this year, toss a coin at an opposing player from a fair distance, and if no one sees you, you get away with it.... If that article is correct, it appears that there will be a price to pay for those fans involved in the fight. No surprise that the cup thrower's latest offense was alcohol related... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 But what does surprise me is that the cup thrower started out seemingly as a peace-maker. He was pulling Artest back with one arm in a half nelson for maybe 30 seconds or more while Artest was wailing on the other guy. Then, Mr. Instigator/peace-maker suddenly decides to start pounding on Artest from behind. Surely, he will face the worst penalties of any of the fans (that is, assuming they don't identify the chair-thrower). The cup-thrower should not only get assault charges but surely disorderly conduct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Today's NYT said that the players may face misdemeanors only while the cup thrower could face a felony, plus the Pistons have revoked his season ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Well, Larry Brown did say, in the post-game press conference last night, that he thinks the situation is indicative of our modern society. I agree. Watching BDSSP last night, and everybody except Chris Rose was going to the mat for Artest in a serious way (John Sally, to his credit, suggested anger management classes for Artest, but still felt that the supension was too harsh). Tom Arnold's response to Rose's note that Artest went after the wrong guy? "So you go after the wrong guy. So what? You go after Osama Bin Laden and you get Saddam Hussein." The crowd, as they say, went wild. Tom Arnold is Tom Arnold, after all, can't help him with that one, but apparently there's a lot of Tom Arnolds. Score one for Coach Brown. I fully agree, btw, that any and all fans involved in this should be fully prosecuted. But Artest's role as escalator must not be diminished and/or overlooked. Commisioner Stern's actions are wholly appropriate, I believe, and send a clear message to all players. Now, all that remains is for the NBA to do an league-wide investigation of arena security forces, and take what ever steps need to be taken to see to it that as soon as a fan(s) pulls a stunt like that again, that his/her ass is out of ther, like, yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 The whole thing was embarassing for everyone involved: the players, the fans, arena "security", the league in general. Artest is obviously a basket case and might be forced to see a psychiatric doctor (i think he needs to see one). Those fans, ie. the out of control ones, should be barred from all Pistons games. The ones who went onto the court deserve to get punched, IMO. The players no doubt felt their safety zone had been invaded and they had to protect themselves. It's unfortunate that that one fan got drilled in the chops, but that's what happens when shit gets out of control; I don't feel sorry for him, he brought it upon himself. Security has to be beefed up considerably and it should be a criminal offense for any fan to throw stuff at players/step onto the court. At the same time, players should be severely punished for going into the stands; that is completely out of line. One more dumb action from Artest and he should be banned from playing in the NBA for life. He's had more than enough chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Tom Arnold's response to Rose's note that Artest went after the wrong guy? "So you go after the wrong guy. So what? You go after Osama Bin Laden and you get Saddam Hussein." Wow. I knew Tom Arnold was an idiot, but not to that degree. Amazing. However, it does not suprise me that the crowd reacted to his comments as they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjazz Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 is any team going to trade for Artest. Indiana appears to be through with Artest. Despite the fact he has four years on his contract, I would be very suprised if the Pacers can't find some term in his contract that he violated to turn him loose if no one else will take him. I thought Larry Bird said that the PACERS were supporting Artest. (Also thought he was in the top 12) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Sometimes it is....if someone threw a drink on you, what is your likely reaction going to be??? Thanks bud, I was getting a bit hot??? If it would de-escalate the situation, absolutely. Though a better line might be, "Hey, looks like the drinks are on me!" Usually when I'm in a bar, it's to provide entertainment, not security. I'll leave the ejection to the doorman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Sometimes it is....if someone threw a drink on you, what is your likely reaction going to be??? Thanks bud, I was getting a bit hot??? If it would de-escalate the situation, absolutely. Though a better line might be, "Hey, looks like the drinks are on me!" Usually when I'm in a bar, it's to provide entertainment, not security. I'll leave the ejection to the doorman. Not exactly an analogous situation, IMO. Two different settings, two different sets of "norms". In this case it was fans vs. players, with little or no outside interference (which was unfortunate and should be fixed ASAP). The fans embarassed themselves and escalted the situation drastically; the players made things reach the "out of control" stage. No one is right in this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 No, it's not exactly analogous. We sort of veered off topic a bit when Noj quoted someone from another board about how a person that throws a drink on you in a bar is due an ass whoopin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 My fault, as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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