DrJ Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 This idea occurred to me while listening to COUNTRY ROADS AND OTHER PLACES last evening. I must start by saying that I'm by no means a mega-Burton fan, but I do find that during this period he was really saying something worth hearing (I'm also a huge fan of his slightly earlier work with Stan Getz although there's not enough of it!). The compositions are nice, too. And the supporting casts were so great - Swallow, Haynes, Hahn, Coryell, etc. The middle to later sessions from his tenure on the label, like COUNTRY and DUSTER were also arguably the signal of the birth of "fusion" - or at least one kind of fusion - in its earlier, in my view mostly positive sense. The earlier stuff signified one of the only fresh new voices on the vibes in the post-bop era. Come to think of it, Mosaic has NO sets of any vibraphonist leaders' dates. Time to remedy that! The final thing that would make this a nice box is that many of the sessions have been hard to find or never issued on CD. I have some of the Koch reissues of certain sessions, and they are remastered well enough, but I suspect Mosaic could do a better job with someone like Addey at the helm, and it would be nice to have a LOT better documentation and liner notes than Koch gives you. Now I'm no expert, but just based on what's in All Music we'd have: 1961 New Vibe Man in Town 1962 Who Is Gary Burton? 1963 3 in Jazz (just the Burton part) 1963 Something's Coming 1964 The Groovy Sound of Music 1966 The Time Machine 1966 Tennessee Firebird 1967 Duster 1967 Lofty Fake Anagram 1967 A Genuine Tong Funeral 1968 Gary Burton Quartet in Concert [live] 1968 Country Roads and Other Places We all know AMG is rife with errors, so feel free to jump in and correct or add other sessions if you're in the know. What do other people think about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 I'm a fan of TENNESSEE FIREBIRD, LOFTY FAKE ANAGRAM, and A GENUINE TONG FUNERAL, and I certainly wouldn't mind making the acquaintance of the other albums... great idea, DrJ! Whether or not Mosaic could ever pry the masters from BMG is a problem, though... I'm really curious as to how the Sony-BMG merger will pan out in this regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted November 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 The masters licensing is always an issue, David, but Mosaic does seem to have been able to work out deals to get RCA material in the past (some of the Shorty Rogers stuff, some of the Illinois Jacquet, and there's probably others I'm forgetting). Probably not insurmountable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerein Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 What RCA Rogers did Mosaic use?? The Rogers set is Atlantic and Capitol/EMI only. I like the Burton RCA cd's which I have a lot but Tenessee Firebird is awefull (IMO). So maybe a select with the more straight ahead material is a better option. Cheers, Reinier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 I would be game for this. I haven't bought all of these yet, but do plan on checking them out soon. I have A Genuine Tong Funeral and love the Lofty Fake Anagram tracks tacked on at the end. Judging by the descriptions of a couple of the other discs, they sound nice. I'm not a huge Burton fan either. I prefer my vibraphone with vibrato and his lines sometimes tend to sound so pre-determined. I saw him play this summer. He is without a doubt a virtuostic musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 What RCA Rogers did Mosaic use?? The Rogers set is Atlantic and Capitol/EMI only. I like the Burton RCA cd's which I have a lot but Tenessee Firebird is awefull (IMO). So maybe a select with the more straight ahead material is a better option. Cheers, Reinier Too bad you aren't in the states. I'd work out a trade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerein Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 What has a trade to do with me not living in the US? I don't have the Tenessee Firebird CD so if that's the one you want to trade it's impossible!!!!! Otherwise I'm in for trades....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 (edited) Mosaic traditionally has had a hard time getting material from BMG... Cuscuna once said, "It's hard to get anybody there to call us back" (in reference to why there hadn't been an Arista Braxton set yet). From what I hear they torpedoed the originally-planned Tristano set, and outside of the Jacquet material (which came out 8 years ago), I don't think Mosaic has put out anything for a long time that was leased from BMG. I could be overlooking something, but it just seems as if BMG doesn't much like leasing to them. Maybe the merger with Sony will change that, since Sony leases quite often to Mosaic. Hope it's not the other way around. But a Shorty Rogers RCA set would be sweet indeed. I just got my hands on a copy of THE SWINGIN' NUTCRACKER, at last, at last... Edited November 5, 2004 by ghost of miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 I saw Scott Wenzel from Mosaic today. He said the BMG/Sony merger is a VERY good thing for Mosaic. Look for RCA material as well as blends of RCA/Columbia and related labels to appear on Mosaics soon. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 I saw Scott Wenzel from Mosaic today. He said the BMG/Sony merger is a VERY good thing for Mosaic. Look for RCA material as well as blends of RCA/Columbia and related labels to appear on Mosaics soon. Mike Ohhhhh, YEAH!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted November 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 (edited) First things first, sorry for the blunder - people are of course correct, no RCA material in the prior Shorty Rogers Mosaic. Duh! I did think of one other Mosaic with prominent RCA material - the Desmond/Hall box (although again that was a LONG time ago). Anyway, thanks for the good news Mike - reissue of RCAs jazz material from ALL eras has been really spotty at best in America, so this is GREAT news. Back to Burton on RCA: DUSTER is the one that I've heard so far that is absolutely essential, just a breath of fresh air and great music. I'm surprised there's not a lot more discussion of this one. Edited November 6, 2004 by DrJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 I saw Scott Wenzel from Mosaic today. He said the BMG/Sony merger is a VERY good thing for Mosaic. Look for RCA material as well as blends of RCA/Columbia and related labels to appear on Mosaics soon. Mike Ohhhhh, YEAH!! Excellent! B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 I saw Scott Wenzel from Mosaic today. He said the BMG/Sony merger is a VERY good thing for Mosaic. Look for RCA material as well as blends of RCA/Columbia and related labels to appear on Mosaics soon. Mike Great news, Mike! Though not for my wallet... Wow, wow, wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 So what other RCA or RCA-related sets would folks like to see? In addition to the Burton, Braxton, and Rogers ideas already mentioned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 So what other RCA or RCA-related sets would folks like to see? In addition to the Burton, Braxton, and Rogers ideas already mentioned... Al Cohn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Weil Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 This idea occurred to me while listening to COUNTRY ROADS AND OTHER PLACES last evening. I must start by saying that I'm by no means a mega-Burton fan, but I do find that during this period he was really saying something worth hearing (I'm also a huge fan of his slightly earlier work with Stan Getz although there's not enough of it!). The compositions are nice, too. And the supporting casts were so great - Swallow, Haynes, Hahn, Coryell, etc. The middle to later sessions from his tenure on the label, like COUNTRY and DUSTER were also arguably the signal of the birth of "fusion" - or at least one kind of fusion - in its earlier, in my view mostly positive sense. would be nice to have a LOT better documentation and liner notes than Koch gives you. ...... 1967 Duster 1967 Lofty Fake Anagram 1967 A Genuine Tong Funeral 1968 Gary Burton Quartet in Concert [live] 1968 Country Roads and Other Places This is kind of irrelevant, but I just thought I'd mention that the 1st, 2nd and 4th of these records did actually appear in a boxed LP set (as it's a box set thread) from RCA France. I agree that this, I dunno: light fusion from Burton, is engaging stuff. I don't know how well the earlier stuff (not fusion) would meld with the later - I mean, in terms of selling points I guess it would make more sense to have an all-fusion box. But then I don't know the earlier. Actually, of all the fusion out there, this early Burton stuff is my favourite, partly for its restraint, partly just because of its specific sweet vibe - and it certainly should be out there in one form or another. I mean, it's historic. Simon Weil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 I think it would be marketable either way, because there are so many Burton disciples, many of whom probably haven't heard this music. They tend to focus on his ECM dates. Putting this out there would give them another perspective on his playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 So what other RCA or RCA-related sets would folks like to see? In addition to the Burton, Braxton, and Rogers ideas already mentioned... A few that come to mind... J.J. Johnson Lou Levy Joe Williams Lockjaw Davis Phineas Newborn and one that I'm not even familiar with, the Sauter-Finegan band. I wonder if there's any unreleased Rollins material... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 So what other RCA or RCA-related sets would folks like to see? In addition to the Burton, Braxton, and Rogers ideas already mentioned... A few that come to mind... J.J. Johnson Lou Levy Joe Williams Lockjaw Davis Phineas Newborn and one that I'm not even familiar with, the Sauter-Finegan band. I wonder if there's any unreleased Rollins material... I have three (all three?) of the J.J. Johnson RCAs and like two of them very much. I'm thinking there were alternate Rollins takes that he kept off the RCA box... don't know if those will ever see the light of day, or if Mosaic would want to re-do a box so (relatively) recently released. I'd like to hear the Sauter-Finnegan material as well, and certainly the Phineas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 It's rumored that there is a LOT of unreleased Rollins in the RCA vaults, including a few more hours from the Village Gate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 There's a ton of unissued RCA Rollins (as well as other live Rollins material from that period). Don't hold your breath on seeing a legit issue. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Weil Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 I think it would be marketable either way, because there are so many Burton disciples, many of whom probably haven't heard this music. They tend to focus on his ECM dates. Putting this out there would give them another perspective on his playing. I suppose at the back of my mind was the idea of doing a Mosaic select of just the fusion stuff. Admitedly this rather defeats Dr J.'s original intent, but I'm not sure that it wouldn't be a more logical way of getting this stuff out (in terms of amount of material/cost/consistency of music). But you'd lose the nice/loving full Mosaic box approach... Simon Weil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted November 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 (edited) Wow, sure would be nice to hear at least SOME of the Sonny Rollins unissued stuff. There's more than 3 JJ's on RCA, I have: The Total J.J. Johnson Broadway Express Goodies J.J.! And there may be more, one would hope anyway. Another idea would be to combine JJ's recordings for Verve and RCA into a single box (there are some musical commonalities to my ears). There's the RCA Shorty Rogers stuff someone already mentioned, and I dig the Phineas idea. Lots of older classic jazz on RCA (exemplified by those "Jazz Tribune" French reissues for example, with people like Coleman Hawkins, Fletcher Henderson, and others having entries) and I'm not too clear on exactly how much hasn't been out - but I'm sure Mosaic might be able to improve on many of the other reissues sonically and with better photos and documentation. A good example would be Sidney Bechet, right? There was a "complete" on RCA series of LPs a long time ago but to my knowledge there hasn't been a complete collection of these recordings on CD (at least in the U.S.). I have the "master takes" CD set and it's heavenly. There are also a whole lot of "one off" dates for RCA that I think are really intriguing. Koch has put out some in their reissue series but they tend to come and go out of print quickly. RCA France has done others. Stuff like the Sextet of Orchestra USA stuff with Dolphy, and Willie the Lion Smith's "Memoirs," the Four Brothers reunion recording that was done not too long before Serge Chaloff's death, and the Ran Blake/Jeanne Lee classic, Freddie Green's "Mister Rhythm," Martial Solal's "fake" live album (great anyway) from Newport, and others. There's some Ruby Braff dates in there too. A "grab bag" type of box with a range of performers and styles would be fun and revealing. I'm sure there are a lot more obscure one-off dates that haven't seen light of day on CD but are worthy. Let's not forget about later RCA material - top of the list for me would be the Toshiko Akiyoshi-Lew Tabackin big band stuff. This SCREAMS out for a Mosaic treatment, and I would have to think there's be at least some previously unissued material they could include. Edited November 6, 2004 by DrJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 There's more than 3 JJ's on RCA, I have: The Total J.J. Johnson Broadway Express Goodies J.J.! And there may be more, one would hope anyway. I think that's about it for JJ's RCAs. 4 LPs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 (edited) There's more than 3 JJ's on RCA, I have: The Total J.J. Johnson Broadway Express Goodies J.J.! And there may be more, one would hope anyway. I think that's about it for JJ's RCAs. 4 LPs Sounds ripe for a Select. Some great suggestions, DrJ! I've looked long and hard for that Bechet RCA set... Lon will be along any minute to suggest a Complete Una Mae Carlisle, and I'll have his back on it. Edited November 6, 2004 by ghost of miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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