EKE BBB Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Dizzy : The Life and Times of John Birks Gillespie by Donald L. Maggin Hardcover: 432 pages Publisher: HarperEntertainment Due out on March 1, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 I have reservations about this. I thought Maggin's Stan Getz bio, while presenting some very worthwhile new information, glossed over huge patches of Getz's career. There was also nothing of significance in terms of musical commentary. In the case of Gillespie, is Maggin going to have anything that hasn't been printed in the autobiography or in Alyn Shipton's book (which I similarly found to gloss over much of Gillespie's career)? In the case of Getz, there wasn't another book out there so it was a welcome addition. But with Dizzy, there are already two. Sigh - yes, I'll probably buy it anyway. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 I have reservations about this. I thought Maggin's Stan Getz bio, while presenting some very worthwhile new information, glossed over huge patches of Getz's career. There was also nothing of significance in terms of musical commentary. In the case of Gillespie, is Maggin going to have anything that hasn't been printed in the autobiography or in Alyn Shipton's book (which I similarly found to gloss over much of Gillespie's career)? In the case of Getz, there wasn't another book out there so it was a welcome addition. But with Dizzy, there are already two. Sigh - yes, I'll probably buy it anyway. Mike Your point is well taken about Maggin's glossing over Getz's musical contributions, stylistic evolution, etc. But in terms of giving the reader some knowledge about and possibly insight into an enigmatic, addictive personality who happened to produce a significant body of work, I found his biography a very good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 It is difficult, perhaps impossible, to write an honest biography when aspects of the subject's life are held back. It is for this reason that I turned down Alberta Hunter's wish to have me write her biography. I simply knew too much, and, I suspect, the same stands in a Gillespie biographer's way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 It is difficult, perhaps impossible, to write an honest biography when aspects of the subject's life are held back. It is for this reason that I turned down Alberta Hunter's wish to have me write her biography. I simply knew too much, and, I suspect, the same stands in a Gillespie biographer's way. Chris, Are you saying you knew things about Alberta that she wouldn't want published? I suspect this is the case in many autobiographies, in that the author wants their story out there, but maybe not the entire story! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 I was thinking about buying Shipton's bio of Dizzy. Is it worth picking up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Marty - I agree. My point about the Getz book stands - since it is the ONLY book, it's worth having, despite its shortcomings. I wouldn't mind having another book on Getz if it were written by a musician. Re: the Shipton - yes, worth getting, but in my opinion one should get and read the autobiography first. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Mike, I disagree with you that there exists only One book about Getz worth having. How about: Hans-Jürgen Schaal: Stan Getz Sein Leben -Seine Music- Seine Schallplatten, Oreos (1994) (His Life- His Music- His Records). I strongly recommend this (although it is in German). Jürgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 It is difficult, perhaps impossible, to write an honest biography when aspects of the subject's life are held back. It is for this reason that I turned down Alberta Hunter's wish to have me write her biography. I simply knew too much, and, I suspect, the same stands in a Gillespie biographer's way. Chris, Are you saying you knew things about Alberta that she wouldn't want published? I suspect this is the case in many autobiographies, in that the author wants their story out there, but maybe not the entire story! Mark Mark, I understand that most of us have aspects of our life, or events, that we would not wish made public. The fact that Alberta was gay is no longer a secret, but it was a well-kept one at the time when she wanted me to write the book. Since it played a part in Alberta's career, I did not think I could simply leave that part of her life out of the story, the way it was done with Langston Hughes and Carl Van Vechten. It's truly a shame that people are so small-minded, but even today, when the closet has opened wider, being gay is unacceptable to many people--the Bush degradation of reasoned thought has not helped, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Since it played a part in Alberta's career, I did not think I could simply leave that part of her life out of the story, the way it was done with Langston Hughes and Carl Van Vechten. That's what I thought you meant; thanks! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 I was thinking about buying Shipton's bio of Dizzy. Is it worth picking up? Finished reading this a few weeks ago, and I basically agree with Mike. Shipton's "historical" research seems to be impeccable, and clears up a lot of myths and such in terms of chronology, as well as providing more personal detail than has heretofore been generally available. But the the autobiography still gives a better portrait of the "flavor" of the man. I'd say the two books compliment each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Those will be on my reading list next year. Perhaps it was the enormity of his personality and his contribution that makes it hard to get an all encompassing biography. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Well, yeah, that and the apparent fact that the persona and the person were quite often at odds. Both seemed to have been genuine, but in different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 I haven't yet read the Shipton book, Does he mention the backstage fist fight between Dizzy and Valerie Wilmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Mea culpa - I do only consider what is published in the English language. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 I haven't yet read the Shipton book, Does he mention the backstage fist fight between Dizzy and Valerie Wilmer? No! So if you want to do so, please go on ahead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Haven't yet read either the Shipton or the autobiography, but there's a story about Dizzy & southern Indiana that I hope to one day verify (or not). In the 1950s French Lick, IN (yes, birthplace of Larry Bird) hosted a pretty happening jazz festival, about as hip as this particular neck of Hoosierville ever got. The French Lick Hotel had a swimming pool that was, uh, shall we say, not open to many members of the jazz-playing persuasion. Gillespie allegedly came down from his room in royal regalia, posing as an African monarch, and singlehandedly "integrated" the pool by leaping into it fully-clothed. A great story, but one that certainly bears some form of validation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Here's a picture of Miles & Dizzy at the 1959 French Lick festival, taken by Duncan Schiedt (JAZZ STATE OF INDIANA): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Mike, I cannot really understand your working attitude. Up til now my impression was that you belong to the very few people working on discographies etc. in a kind of scientific approach. I have learned by working in a complete different field scientificly that language does NOT matter, ie. if a paper exists in ANY language on your field you HAVE to consider it seriously. I know also in my field many Americans read papers only in English. That is the reason that I have published in the last 40 years papers and a book mainly in English so that many of my collegues (and friends) can read it without to many difficulties. But in a certain sense I feel embarressed. I t seems to be the same idea that you can read on new CD's of your country that it is the first editon on CD although I have it since 15 years as a Japaese CD. Jürgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 (edited) Marty - I agree. My point about the Getz book stands - since it is the ONLY book, it's worth having, despite its shortcomings. I wouldn't mind having another book on Getz if it were written by a musician. Re: the Shipton - yes, worth getting, but in my opinion one should get and read the autobiography first. Mike Mike - UK jazz critic and author Dave Gelly has written a pretty nice bio of Getz's life and music. Details can be found here: Getz Book PS - I don't know whether or not Gelly still plays tenor but he played some pretty nice stuff on Neil Ardley/New Jazz Orchestra's 'Dejeuner Sur L'Herbe' LP Edited December 14, 2004 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Discography is quite a different world than biography. I do have and use discographical materials in German, French, Italian, etc. etc. Even some things from Japan. My apologies, but I can't read German. (I can do reasonably well with French.) For my research, I HAVE and DO read articles in numerous other languages through translations by colleagues (Swedish, German, Italian, French - I recall all these for the Gryce book). But for just having on the shelf reading, no, I do not have a library of books in any other language than English and therefore don't keep up with what is published in those other languages. I've already said "mea culpa." - that's Latin, btw. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Regarding the Gillespie-at-French-Lick story, George Wein (who ran the 1959 festival) gives it at least partial validation in his recent book--he says Gillespie and Jimmy McPartland leaped into the pool arm-in-arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 I am currently translating my own works into pig-latin and Esperanto - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 I am currently translating my own works into pig-latin and Esperanto - GREAT! Now I'll understand them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 wait'll you see the index - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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