jazzbo Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Kevin, about the only thing that drives me nuts is people who say things like "bits are bits" and the Consumer Report type of thinking about audio components! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Kevin Bresnahan Posted: Dec 16 2004, 08:55 AMĀ The search for audio nirvana among us audophiles will likely never end until they close the casket cover. SACD is a very inexpensive way to get someone just starting out into audiophilia at a very high-end starting point. If someone moves from a cheapo HT receiver to a super-expensive tubed amp, they will likely perceive a lot less benefit than by simply hooking up an SACD player. If this SACD also improves their RBCD, like my Pioneer DV-45A did, than it's a double upgrade. You're right in one sense Kevin, but my point above didn't come across well I guess... Let's assume you listen to SACD through a cheaper HT receiver and it DOES really float your boat. Now you're left with basically two options: 1) You can use it for occasional listening, buying only the SACDs of dates you really really enjoy. Most of the people on this board, I'll wager, won't do that, being obsessive collector/listener types. If they cared enough about sound quality to buy an SACD player in the first place, they'll always want more, and every time they go to put in a standard CD and it doesn't sound nearly as good, they'll be disappointed. So eventually, they'll move to option 2... 2) ...which is "replace as much of your collection of standard CDs/LPs/etc as possible with SACDs." What I was getting at above about this was that, over time, you're flat out going to spend a fortune and it's largely duplicated spending, since you'll be "upgrading." Even if you only bought, say, 100 titles in SACD format - a paltry figure for most of us - you'll spend bare minimum $1500-2000 dollars, assuming you get really good prices, and I'll bet you'll in reality spend a lot more. For people who are ultimately trying to replace huge chunks of their large collection, say 1000s of titles, do the math - you'll spend a WHOLE lot of money over time, easily $5000-10,000. (All this assuming there will ever be that type of SACD catalog, which is highly debateable). So my point with option two is this: some or (if you want to go crazy) all of that money you could instead have invested up front in an inexpensive but good sounding integrated tube or solid state (depending on your taste) amp. Then over time (another year or two) you could invest in the better CD player or transport/DAC combo. Then the speakers/interconnects (assuming you even need to upgrade). You get the picture. Yes, it takes a little time and patience, but over a few years you would end up investing the same amount (or even less) of money you'd have blown on "upgrades" to SACD and will end up with a listening system that allows you to fully enjoy your standard CDs, which I guarantee will sound fabulous, and WON'T require you to repurchase a million titles in a new format. Just food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Because of the uncertain future of SACD, it would indeed be better to place priority in good CD playback. That will not exclude SACD functionalities of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Because of the uncertain future of SACD ..... Where can I read something about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 There's an uncertainty about all high-rez formats, including the recently-introduced Dual-disc. The biggest harbinger of the future of SACD has been Sony... the inventor of SACD. They stopped making them. What message does that send? Who knows? But most people assume the worst. FWIW, UMG (Verve, Ploydor, A&M, Geffen, Impulse!, MCA, etc.) is aggressively putting out SACDs. I'm very happy. In fact, I think I'll isten to Derek and the Dominoes tonight. BTW, word around the 'net is that Pioneer is moving out the Elite DV-45A in preparation for deleting it. Supposedly, it can be had new for around $300. This is a great player for that kind of money. Later, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 BTW, word around the 'net is that Pioneer is moving out the Elite DV-45A in preparation for deleting it. Supposedly, it can be had new for around $300. This is a great player for that kind of money. Sounds nice, but this model is not listed on Pioneer's German website. Maybe that model never was distributed here. Do you have some website describing that model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Pioneer's website is www.pioneerelectronics.com The DV-45A is at http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/prod...1_35168,00.html. I don't know if they make this same model for 220 Volt/60 Hz but I'm guessing they do. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Well, I'm being tempted again... Denon discontinued the DVD-2900 DVD/CD/SACD/DVD-Audio/mp3/jpeg combo player about two months ago. This unit is highly thought of as a video player and it supposedly has some great audio. I almost pulled the trigger on this unit back in November of last year at $600. Now, my local Tweeter store is clearing out their last 4 units for $488. I'm going to listen to one on Saturday. At this price, I think I'll be a goner. But will it be "better" than my Pioneer? I really like my Pioneer. That's why I held back last year. In fact, if this wasn't a 2900 model, which is the last Japanese-built model and the only one with the Silicon Image video chipset, I still wouldn't even consider it. The funniest thing: the main reason I want this player is video... in particular, it has a seamless layer shift for DVDs. My Pioneer has a noticeable layer shift. Another nice benefit of this machine is that you can switch layers on an SACD hybrid disc by a button on the front of the unit. On my Pioneer, it's buried in a set-up screen. So what do you guys think? Am I finally losing it? Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 (edited) Losing it, you lost it a long time ago! B-) It is a nice feature to be able to switch between layers on a hybrid disc I guess; I have this as a button both on my remote and my player on my Sony modifiec DEC 685. I recently tried the video of this out for the fist time on dvd and it's excellent! Odd thing on this machine: cd playback is SO good that SACD really doesn't outshine it! At least not yet. One owner says his does but he plays predominantly SACD and he says it took two or three months for the SACD section to break in and bloom. In contrast, I hardly ever play SACDs so I guess it could happen for my machine too. Not sure I MYSELF would make a change in players in your situation as dvd is not that great an issue for me and neither would the button for SACD and CD switching. But as much audio buying as I've done in the last fifteen years I totally understand the temptation and would understand the move if you make it. Edited March 17, 2005 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I'm very lucky to have a wife who lets me do this kind of crazy stuff. I finally got my "all B&W" surround speaker system in place (LCR 600 S3's in front, 600 S3's in back). Love the sound. I'm glad I finally broke down (financially) to get them. Now, B&W announces a new Nautilus series... and the new 'Nautilus 805s' is supposed to sound better than the old 805 Signature! Yes, I am going insane. They have Alcoholics Anonymous. Do the have "Audiophiles Anonymous"? I have to stop reading the stuff about audio. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I know exactly what you mean. Though personally B&Ws don't tempt me, not my style of speaker, there are TWO new models of the speakers that I have and love, and I'm trying my best not to be "aware of that"--i. e. think about it 1% of the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 i. e. think about it 1% of the time! Let me guess... the other 97% of the time you're thinking about sex, 1% about work and 1% about Organissimo? Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 NO, I don't think sex is that high on the count anylonger. I think about jazz a lot more than "Organissimo" itself, and I think about certain things that are related to whatever book I'm reading! (Right now it is the slavery situation that led up to the Civil War, its economic and cultural bases and forces, due to a fascinating book I'm reading). I'm trying to cut down on my audiophile thoughts, pretty successfully lately, as I'm really happy with my system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I'm very lucky to have a wife who lets me do this kind of crazy stuff. I finally got my "all B&W" surround speaker system in place (LCR 600 S3's in front, 600 S3's in back). Love the sound. I'm glad I finally broke down (financially) to get them. Now, B&W announces a new Nautilus series... and the new 'Nautilus 805s' is supposed to sound better than the old 805 Signature! Yes, I am going insane. They have Alcoholics Anonymous. Do the have "Audiophiles Anonymous"? I have to stop reading the stuff about audio. Ā Kevin About two weeks ago I listened to a number of B&W speakers in the new redesigned 800 series including the "D" models with diamond tweeters. Phenomenal! Unless you have 5-7K laying around, do yourself a favor and don't audition them. B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolff Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 I have to stop reading the stuff about audio. Ā Kevin Then do not read this!!!!! LINK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Well, I'm thinking of getting a SACD palyer also. Is Denon the best route to go for $500 .00? I don't have a surround sound system, just a basic stero system, with Dynaudio speakers. So, is a upgrade to SACD worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Boy, Matthew, you dredged up an old one with this thread! I think you'll find that Denon's SACD combi-players are very nice. However, the Pioneer Elite Line and Marantz's players have a following. I have also read good things about Onkyo, but I haven't trusted Onkyo for years... they were my favorite many years ago. It may look like Sony is "off the list" but I don't mean it that way. Sony is my first choice for TVs but I bought one of their entry-level SACD players a few years ago and it was a very good SACD player but a lousy CD player. There may be a good model out there now. I just haven't read about it. Later, Kevin BTW, regarding the off-topic comments in this thread regarding Steve Hoffman's forum's moderators. They seem to have gotten more lenient since I wrote what I did back in 2004... Either that or everyone's gotten the hang of what can be said. I still don't like the fact that Steve's word is gospel but I guess that's what happens when you open your own forum. He has some crazy ideas on audio. But damn, does he know how to make a nice-sounding CD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 BTW, regarding the off-topic comments in this thread regarding Steve Hoffman's forum's moderators. They seem to have gotten more lenient since I wrote what I did back in 2004... Either that or everyone's gotten the hang of what can be said. I still don't like the fact that Steve's word is gospel but I guess that's what happens when you open your own forum. He has some crazy ideas on audio. But damn, does he know how to make a nice-sounding CD! ā He sure does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron S Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 BTW, regarding the off-topic comments in this thread regarding Steve Hoffman's forum's moderators. They seem to have gotten more lenient since I wrote what I did back in 2004... Either that or everyone's gotten the hang of what can be said. I still don't like the fact that Steve's word is gospel but I guess that's what happens when you open your own forum. He has some crazy ideas on audio. But damn, does he know how to make a nice-sounding CD! He sure does! I just ordered his Hybrid SACD of the Sonny Clark Trio to listen to the redbook layer (no SACD player) based on recommendations here, especially Hans'. It'll be my first Hoffman, and I'm looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 BTW, regarding the off-topic comments in this thread regarding Steve Hoffman's forum's moderators. They seem to have gotten more lenient since I wrote what I did back in 2004... Either that or everyone's gotten the hang of what can be said. I still don't like the fact that Steve's word is gospel but I guess that's what happens when you open your own forum. He has some crazy ideas on audio. But damn, does he know how to make a nice-sounding CD! He sure does! I just ordered his Hybrid SACD of the Sonny Clark Trio to listen to the redbook layer (no SACD player) based on recommendations here, especially Hans'. It'll be my first Hoffman, and I'm looking forward to it. ā I'm told it's OOP, so I hope you'll be able to get a copy. It's the best digital version I've heard of this album; I've only listened to the redbook layer, though, since I don't have an SACD player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron S Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 BTW, regarding the off-topic comments in this thread regarding Steve Hoffman's forum's moderators. They seem to have gotten more lenient since I wrote what I did back in 2004... Either that or everyone's gotten the hang of what can be said. I still don't like the fact that Steve's word is gospel but I guess that's what happens when you open your own forum. He has some crazy ideas on audio. But damn, does he know how to make a nice-sounding CD! He sure does! I just ordered his Hybrid SACD of the Sonny Clark Trio to listen to the redbook layer (no SACD player) based on recommendations here, especially Hans'. It'll be my first Hoffman, and I'm looking forward to it. ā I'm told it's OOP, so I hope you'll be able to get a copy. It's the best digital version I've heard of this album; I've only listened to the redbook layer, though, since I don't have an SACD player. I ordered it from Caiman/Amazon. They claim to have 30 copies available, so we'll see if I get it! And it's your recommendation of the redbook layer that got me to order this, since I don't have an SACD player either. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 BTW, regarding the off-topic comments in this thread regarding Steve Hoffman's forum's moderators. They seem to have gotten more lenient since I wrote what I did back in 2004... Either that or everyone's gotten the hang of what can be said. I still don't like the fact that Steve's word is gospel but I guess that's what happens when you open your own forum. He has some crazy ideas on audio. But damn, does he know how to make a nice-sounding CD! He sure does! I just ordered his Hybrid SACD of the Sonny Clark Trio to listen to the redbook layer (no SACD player) based on recommendations here, especially Hans'. It'll be my first Hoffman, and I'm looking forward to it. ā I'm told it's OOP, so I hope you'll be able to get a copy. It's the best digital version I've heard of this album; I've only listened to the redbook layer, though, since I don't have an SACD player. I ordered it from Caiman/Amazon. They claim to have 30 copies available, so we'll see if I get it! And it's your recommendation of the redbook layer that got me to order this, since I don't have an SACD player either. Thanks! ā Uh oh, I guess I'll have to run for cover when you get it... Seriously, I don't think you'll be disapppointed. To my ears Steve Hoffman did an excellent job with these recordings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 BTW, regarding the off-topic comments in this thread regarding Steve Hoffman's forum's moderators. They seem to have gotten more lenient since I wrote what I did back in 2004... Either that or everyone's gotten the hang of what can be said. I still don't like the fact that Steve's word is gospel but I guess that's what happens when you open your own forum. He has some crazy ideas on audio. But damn, does he know how to make a nice-sounding CD! ā Oops! Wrong thread for this comment... I'll go put it where it belongs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron S Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 BTW, regarding the off-topic comments in this thread regarding Steve Hoffman's forum's moderators. They seem to have gotten more lenient since I wrote what I did back in 2004... Either that or everyone's gotten the hang of what can be said. I still don't like the fact that Steve's word is gospel but I guess that's what happens when you open your own forum. He has some crazy ideas on audio. But damn, does he know how to make a nice-sounding CD! ā Oops! Wrong thread for this comment... I'll go put it where it belongs! ā As long as Hans and I don't have to move the 5 posts that it spawned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 BTW, regarding the off-topic comments in this thread regarding Steve Hoffman's forum's moderators. They seem to have gotten more lenient since I wrote what I did back in 2004... Either that or everyone's gotten the hang of what can be said. I still don't like the fact that Steve's word is gospel but I guess that's what happens when you open your own forum. He has some crazy ideas on audio. But damn, does he know how to make a nice-sounding CD! ā Oops! Wrong thread for this comment... I'll go put it where it belongs! ā As long as Hans and I don't have to move the 5 posts that it spawned. ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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