JSngry Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 So, what does this Horsecollar cat sound like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Never heard him -- don't known actually if he solos on any of the (probably few) record dates he made -- but if I had to take a guess I'd say somewhere close to Rudy Williams (of the Savoy Sultans) or Danny Quebec West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Hey, it is late at night so I may be off base, but do I remember "boston" being another name for "stride"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 ...isn't Johnny Hartzfield a good name for tenor saxophonist of that vintage? I imagine a guy with a big, edgy sound and lot of semi-hairy, harmonic ideas... And some REALLY good suits that have been worn well, with some hip-ass wingtips that haven't been shined in a while! To say nothing of a bulky-ass Conn 10M and one of those Otto Link pieces with no neck on 'em. Yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 About "boston" I'll try to check, but I seem to recall Benny Carter or Coleman Hawkins or Rex Stewart saying that that's what they called a solo chorus in the Twenties. About Horsecollar, I've now listened to what may be the only two tracks of him there are -- backing Billie Holiday on a June 1941 live recording at Mintons ("I Cried for You," "Fine and Mellow"). It's on "Harlem Odyssey" (Onyx), a 1978 grab bag of Newman material. Dan Morgenstern's notes say: "Floyd 'Horsecollar' Williams, who plays the alto obligatti behind Billie worked and recorded (though not in a solo role) with Hot Lips Page and can be found on a number of later r&b recordings. A drummer named Chick Foster whom I used to know made a demo with Horsecollar in the mid-'50s on which he played his ass off on some blues, and he is one of those semi-legends other musicians always speak of." Horsecollar is very much in the background on the two Holiday Mintons tracks and does show some kinship to Rudy Williams. There are hints of some underlying looseness -- in relation to the beat and also in terms of letting whole phrases slip and slide a bit -- that I can imagine might have been wild in later years when he was in full flight. On the other hand, unless you were listening for hints here, you might not hear much beyond some pleasant behind-Billie noodling, which is what the situation called for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spontooneous Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Didn't 'Orse have some R&B success? I was under the impression that the nickname came from a minor hit record. A la Gator Tail Jackson and Lockjaw Davis. (And Airegin Rollins?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Glad to hear Rudy Williams' name come up here - plays well on those Tad Dameron broadcasts, and I've heard some things from 1939 (When I Grow too Old to Dream) which definitely predict Bird - he also plays well on some Savoyy/Howard McGhee sides - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Is this the same Horsecollar to whom either Jackie or Herbie refers to in A.B. Spellman's book as "a ruined musician who chewed Benzedrine all day" and who had a somewhat out philosophy re: music? I actually think it's a different Horsecollar--or a horse of a different collar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Speaking of the Savoy Sultans, no airchecks/live recordings have ever turned up, correct? Which is too bad, if so--I have that Chronological Classics CD & like it, but I'll bet a bundle they sounded much better live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Is this the same Horsecollar to whom either Jackie or Herbie refers to in A.B. Spellman's book as "a ruined musician who chewed Benzedrine all day" and who had a somewhat out philosophy re: music? The same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Speaking of the Savoy Sultans, no airchecks/live recordings have ever turned up, correct? Which is too bad, if so--I have that Chronological Classics CD & like it, but I'll bet a bundle they sounded much better live. Unfortunately there is no trace of any live recordings of the Al Cooper Savoy Sultans. Thus no real proof that the band was the Terror of the Savoy Ballroom. The band that even the Mighty Duke Ellington aggregation was afraid of competing against! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Many thanks. I've wanted to read that piece for 40 years. 40 years? You're a slow reader, Chuck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 A "Boston" is definitely a solo. For one source (I think) Rex Stewart uses and defines the tem in his "Jazz Of the Thirties" Anybody play bid whist? A Boston is when you take every book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Many thanks. I've wanted to read that piece for 40 years. 40 years? You're a slow reader, Chuck! Hey! I took a "speed reading" class at the University of Iowa in 1962! Eventually you placed your book in this machine and it drew a curtain down the page to make you read faster. Then we were tested on comprehension. Learned the facts but not the flavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazaro Vega Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Well, how about Nichols' take on Monk's harmonic leanings? I've heard Monk wrote certain songs always to be played in the same key and that switching them up would really set him off. Not that it is a bad thing, yet given the era's fetish with changes that would make Monk even more anamolous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Speaking of the Savoy Sultans, no airchecks/live recordings have ever turned up, correct? Which is too bad, if so--I have that Chronological Classics CD & like it, but I'll bet a bundle they sounded much better live. Unfortunately there is no trace of any live recordings of the Al Cooper Savoy Sultans. Thus no real proof that the band was the Terror of the Savoy Ballroom. The band that even the Mighty Duke Ellington aggregation was afraid of competing against! I haven´t listened to this disc, but from what I´ve read, the seven recording sessions they did for Decca weren´t very successful, were they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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