jazzbo

Overlooked Altos

234 posts in this topic

Based on the one Carrier disc I've heard -- the one with Bley, Peacock, and Lambert -- I agree completely with Nate. Remarkably aimless noodling on the leader's part, but I'm keeping at it as kind of litmus test -- living proof that it's not that hard in a free or freeish context to tell the difference between the lame and the purposeful.

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Another way to put what I don't like about Carrier, based on that disc with Bley, etc. He apparently can't hear himself (or anyone else either, but especially himself). That is, whatever's happening that sounds momentarily like it might be going somewhere, he stops the flow or smudges or smears things, and every one of these "interruptions" or "deviations" is IMO a bad idea or virtually no idea at all. It's as though, given his skills or lack of same and/or some quirk of ego, he keeps seizing the tiller from his betters and steering right toward the rocks. It seems he can play his instruments in some sense but just has no organic notion of what communal music making is like.

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I wonder if the Carrier disc I heard is noticably different than the one with Bley, et. al., or if we're hearing him differently?

Only one way to find out...

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Joachim Kuhn!

Please explain. I thought he is a pianist.

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Rolf, perhaps?

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clarinet and alto sax. recorded one of the holy grails of the GDR Amiga label. If you happen to have a copy lying around, I'm looking for one.

image016.jpg

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Re-Endgame and Schildkraut -

Warne Marsh (VERY bad sound quality but still interesting)  at this point I am just unloading them at cut-out prices through ebay...

Allen,

What was the name of your Warne Marsh disc?

Q

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John Jenkins: Admittedly, not much of a discography, but a few good things worthy of acknowledgment:

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I like Jenkins, and LOVE that album (having Cliff Jordan on it must help, not to mention Timmons.)

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One name that seems to have been overlook so far is George Robert ... and considering that he is Swiss, I wonder why Ubu has not championed him?

Because I don't really know Robert all that well, and also because he seems to be sort of the swiss issue of Phil Woods... highly competent, but the incarnation of hardbop/modern mainstream...

He played the French "Jazz à Ramatuelle" festival in '04 with his co-led group with Kenny Barron, and indeed they did well together, but it's just not the kind of music that really interests me all that much... standards your heard a hundred times, coupled with a few good (but not outstanding) originals by Robert.

He sure is an important figure as an educator, being a fonder-member of the first jazz school in Switzerland, "Swiss Jazz School" in Berne.

There are more interesting sax players here, though. Omri Ziegele (though I can't always take his "badlyrics" stuff), Nat Su (cameroonian origin, but as far as I know he's actually swiss, grew up here etc - he has been mentioned, by the way) are the first two that come to mind.

Gianluigi Trovesi is an incredible alto player, by the way (not sure he's been mentioned, I tend to consider him a clarinetist, but each time I hear his alto I know the clarinets are not all he is about).

Kippie Moeketsi

Dudu Pukwana

Robbie Jansen

(all three ZA cats, Garth will know...)

Alban Darche - a french sax player (ts,as,ss, I think), who leads a big band called "Le gros cube". Very nice!

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Rolf, perhaps?

Whenever I've heard Rolf Kuhn, he's only played clarinet.

Edited by MartyJazz

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Rolf, perhaps?

Whenever I've heard Rolf Kuhn, he's only played clarinet.

I know some recordings where he plays alto when he was still with the Orchestra of Radio Leipzig.

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Kind of surprised there's been no mention of Marshall Royal, Basie sideman par excellance. Brother of trumpeter, Ernie. Led the band for awhile after the Count's demise if I'm not mistaken. I used to have a casette tape of five of his LP's that was was pretty nice. Unfortunately, it was stolen along with a case full of other irreplaceable tapes several years back. I remember it well.

With regard to the brief discussion of Jimmy Dorsey. Let me come down firmly on the side of those who recognize his brilliance. I've seen a number of clips of him playing in the '40's and I thought he was about as good an alto player as I've seen. Complete and total mastery of his horn...just like Earl Bostic.

Also noted Lon's mention of T.K. Blue. I caught him on Uncut on the BET Jazz channel several months ago and immediately added several of his CD's to my collection. Very much underrated.

With regard to Stephano Di Battista, he has a CD on Blue Note coming out this month that's based on the music of Charlie Parker. I've heard several cuts from it on our local jazz station and it sounds like it will be worth picking up.

Up over and out.

Edited by Dave James

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Regarding Jimmie Dorsey, good enuff for Prez, Bird and Little Walter to dig, good enuff for me. Those that dis him musta been talking to Tommy...

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The Marsh CD is Live In Los Vegas - for detail on this see my post in the Warne Marsh/artists controversy thread -

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I haven't seen mentioned:

Joe Maini

Charlie Mariano

Eric Kloss

Lou Donaldson

Tom Chapin

Douglas Ewart

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I guess he didnt get all the recognition he deserved, but I wouldn't call him overlooked. He had some nice dates.

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Has anyone mentioned Kenny Garrett? Was in one of Miles' groups in the late 80s.

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I don't believe that Garrett can be labled as "overlooked" in any way!

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For chrissake...

SONNY CRISS

Yes!!!

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You might be shocked by this one, but Ornett Coleman. Although he is known to about practically every jazz fan on the earth, he was overlooked as a vital player in jazz movement. Many overlooked his playing, Miles even called him all screwed up inside. Overlooked as a person? I guess not. But as a player, I would say so.

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nah

Well yes, I have to agree on Ornette. The man is playing beautifully these days (have you heard any of his current quartet's live recordings?), and he hasn't even got a recent disc out... I suppose he's still drawing audiences at concerts, but then an artist of his calibre should be documented the way someone like Cecil Taylor has been documented since the Eighties.

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