AOTW Jan 23-30

[gdogus]

One of my favorites from my early days of getting into jazz...

The cover alone is priceless, of course, and the music within as well - humorous, intense, inventive solos by Mr. Rollins, working in a trio setting with Ray Brown (b) and Shelly Manne (d).

My OJC disc includes some worthwhile longer alternate takes:

1 I'm an Old Cowhand (From the Rio Grande) 5:42

2 I'm an Old Cowhand (From the Rio Grande) [alternate take/*] 10:09

3 Solitude 7:52

4 Come, Gone 7:53

5 Come, Gone [alternate take/*] 10:29

6 Wagon Wheels 10:11

7 There Is No Greater Love 5:17

8 Way Out West 6:30

9 Way Out West [alternate take/*] 6:37

What say you, pardners?

[JSngry]

I got really stoned one night back in the 70s, put this one on, and had visions of it being a TV variety special, with all the songs having choreography, cotumes, and all the players playing different characters for each skit/song. You should have seen the dance that everybody was doing as they came on stage to Shelly's intro to "I'm An Old Cowhand", and how they parted in the middle for Sonny to step forward to introduce the show!

As if it wasn't already one of the greatest records ever made...

[Alon Marcus]

Hell yeah!

G - R - E - A - T album!

I already have a busy listening week getting ready to for Shepp, Hicks, Campbell, Murray, Parker and Drake that are supposed (with God's Help!) to be here in the next month. Also listening to lots of Armstrong and Ellington. So I really hope I'll have time to Way Out West once again.

His VV live recording is another trio album I like very much.

[Guy Berger]

Great choice! Since I'm stuck at home today I think I'll give this one a couple of spins.

Guy

[gdogus]

I'm spinning the disc again right now, and loving the terrific little trio thing on "Old Cowhand," especially the parts with Shelly Manne's little clip-clop bits against Ray Brown's little runs, against Sonny's wry reading of the melody. Brilliant.

I enjoy having the longer alternate takes here more than on most cds.

Edited January 23, 2005 by gdogus

[Big Al]

Agree that it's a classic album, but I've never been able to warm to it. Maybe I just don't dig pianoless trios as much as I used to. But this will be a fun discussion to watch, nonetheless!

[SNWOLF]

I love this album! It's some of the most unselfconscious, exuberantly whimsical playing Sonny has ever done, before his perfectionism started turning his playing to stone when he didn't feel he was experiencing sufficient flow to let go and be spontaneously inventive.

I saw a documentary on William Claxton, and his claim was that Rollins initially loved the album cover, being a man with sardonic predilections, and so was happy about it. But the "cats back East" apparently gave Sonny a rough time for some kind of imagined infringement of Cool, it was too corny, uncle tommish, unhip. And thereafter Sonny went pretty cold on Claxton. Well, that's Claxton's version of events.

I love that picture. It's droll and also dorkish. It's fun.

What I liked about that album, apart from the fluid, organic playing and acute empathy, was precisely its sense of fun. It showed me that jazz didn't have to be a perpetual grim exercise in cathartic monumentalism and anguished blues to have existential cred. It could be sly and mischievous and unsentimentally melodic. A sunny disposition could have depth. A Sonny disposition could give you the greatest music in your life.

[garthsj]

A great choice .... I have always loved this album, and have faithfully followed its various release modes over the years, including the "gold" reissue. I think that Rollins "Contemporary" period is vastly underrated, but, as was mentioned previously, his "west coast" sojourn became something of a football in the "east coast vs. west coast" debates in this period.

What is of interest to me on this board is the relative lack of appreciation of Shelly Manne's artistry. Yes, he is often mentioned, and even praised at times, but I get the impression that for most hard bop devotees he is not worth mentioning in the same breath as Roach, Higgins, Blakey, Taylor, etc. I think that any objective evaluation of his career, contribution, and actual musicianship over the years (remembering that he started out as as early be-bop drummer on the east coast) would place him very high in the pantheon of jazz drummers. I believe that this album makes my case stronger.

Garth.

[SNWOLF]

You're right about Shelly: a melodic, senstive, LISTENING drummer, but no wimp. His rhythms are tough and tensile, but he just doesn't hit you over the head with them. He PLAYS the drums, doesn't hit them, gets right inside every nuance and tone colour. And - HE SWINGS LIKE MAD!

[Guest youmustbe]

Shelly got very popular, so the Jazz writers hated him. Sound familiar?

Other than the After You've Gone, incredible! I never liked this album. Kinda stiff, overall. Partly because of Ray Brown. As Miles said about Ray, 'too cut and dry' But Ray sure could drive a big band!

My favorite Shelly album, he does a couple of tracks on the TV show video, is Checkmate, and after that Peter Gunn and of course, the Blackhawks.

[Guest youmustbe]

Another thing about Shelly...brushes. Master!!!! A lost art in Jazz

[garthsj]

My favorite Shelly album, he does a couple of tracks on the TV show video, is Checkmate, and after that Peter Gunn and of course, the Blackhawks.

This is a little off topic for this thread, but Yes! ... you are absolutely right .. "Checkmate" is a VASTLY overlooked album .... I was just playing this last week, and was reminded how fine an album it is ... John Williams's score and the powerful combination of Manne, Candoli, Kamuca, Berghofer, and especially Russ Freeman really bring this thing alive. Highly recommended.

[Leeway]

I saw a documentary on William Claxton, and his claim was that Rollins initially loved the album cover, being a man with sardonic predilections, and so was happy about it. But the "cats back East" apparently gave Sonny a rough time for some kind of imagined infringement of Cool, it was too corny, uncle tommish, unhip. And thereafter Sonny went pretty cold on Claxton. Well, that's Claxton's version of events.

I haven't read any of the background on the cover photo, but I find the photo interesting as a piece of iconography. In 1957, the cowboy in the white hat was always a white man. The significant role of the black cowboys and soldiers "way out west' was neither known (to the general public) or discussed. Here comes Sonny, appropriating this essential symbol of Americana for himself, and, by extension, for African-Americans generally. And he looks like the biggest, toughest cowboy out there . I don't see how the cover could have been a mistake of some kind, as the programming of the album clearly seeks to include and transform western themes. In a sense, the cover conveys what is happening musically and culturally. Maybe too theoretical, but I find the photograph liberating.

As for the music, I find that this album has some of the hallmarks of the "cool" or "West Coast" sound, or perhaps is a hybrid of East and West sounds. I attribute this mostly to Manne. I think it creates an interesting tension.

I love the open, clear quality of the music. I don't miss the piano, because Rollins seems to have a bounless fund of melodic and harmonic invention going on throughout the session.

[SNWOLF]

The cover certainly wasn't a mistake, either by Rollins or Claxton. If Claxton's recollections are accurate, I guess Sonny was still young enough for peer pressure to get under his skin.

I hadn't thought, except perhaps in a subconscious way, about the iconography of the photo. I just saw it as a visual symbol of Rollin's swaggering nonchalance, while dryly satirising his perceived role model righteousness in the black community. But now I think of it, I think you're right, Leeway, about the subversion of mighty whitey iconography. So who are the real down cats doing the gun slinging round here?

[JSngry]

Sonny loved the Westerns as a kid. So besides any subversion of the iconography (and I won't question that there was that element involved), there was genuine affection for it as well.

[Guest youmustbe]

I seem to remember that when the tv show Peter Gunn went on the air, there was a hue and cry in the Jazz press about how once again Jazz was being used as background music to murder, mayhem and sex. Alfred Hitchock had a 'riff' on that as part of the routine he used to do on Alfred Hitchock presents, the intro, intermission, and outro of the show.

A nice Manne record is the Altlantic with Strozier. The early Contemporaries have great stuff, including the Mariano suite. I have that on video from Stars Of Jazz. But, with Peter Gunn, the band really comes into its own, and Shelly loosens up and swings as hard and as smooth as any drummer can. Only thing, live, on stage, Shelly looked like a putz. Didn't have the majesty that drummers are supposed to project. It is, after all, showbiz, the illusion of the stage. putting butts in seats.

One reason I don't like Way Out West is that it's one of the records you're 'supposed' to like. Critics, proclaim it a 'masterpiece' and you're supposed to fall in line. Like Martin Williams said Blue 7 on Collossus was the holy grail, and everyone has parroted that, while I bet, they never listen to it.

I like the 2nd record with Hawes etc, better, especially since Vinnegar for my money is a more enjoyable player.

[wolff]

Here is my deep analysis/opinion of the cover: It looks goofy.

I much prefer the shot on the back of the LP, Alternate Takes. Sonny is standing with one foot on a cow scull, hat across his heart, with the sax swinging down below. Cool shot.

Probably, one of the first ten jazz LP's I bought. It seems like it's pretty close to a one of a kind LP for this period, 1957. Very different and unique. It's also very catchy. I often find myself humming the tunes all day long.

[Guest youmustbe]

When Branford played the Vanguard the very first time, his first set, with Hurst and Watts, trio, he did guess what? Most of the tunes off Way Out West.

It was what it was.

[SNWOLF]

Well, Westerns are fun, and there's plenty of fun in Sonny's playing. His solos with everyone from Garland Jeffreys to the Rolling Stones demonstrated that blithe spirits and his love of popular music didn't die when age lent nostalgic pseudo-dignity to what were once pop hits.

What would his playing be like if he was a sci-fi freak like Wayne? Would we be getting wry renditions of Star Trek? The only good saxophone playing I've heard in a science fiction movie is Stan Getz doing First Song, in Gattaca, but that's another story.

[SNWOLF]

Youmustbe - - Yeah there's plenty of solemnly-intoned pronouncements made about touchstones in jazz that we're supposed to genuflect to. And everyone has their own peculiar temperament, sensibility, personal relationship to the music, which will determine whether they agree intellectually, strongly agree emotionally, or at a loss for words as to why such shit should stir up such interest. So it appears as if the typical critic learning the ropes is just vapidly parroting portentous statements about singular works so that they'll sound erudite. I think that definitely happens, along with mildly rearranged plagiarism. But sometimes great work just sounds like shit to even the most attuned ears, and at least some people have the balls to dissent.

I heard Branford play one of those Way Out West numbers on a broadcast, and I have to say, it was crap. Branford's a good player, a nice guy, and therein lies the problem. He doesn't have the sardonic, ironic, sarcastic, knowing hipness to pull it off. I don't like Bud Shank's version of it either.

When you come down to it, the actual music, the basic melodies in what Sonny plays are frequently, even usually, trite, often idiotic. He has this unmatched ability to turn inconsequential fluff into salty, swinging, celebratory jazz.

[JSngry]

When did Sonny record with Garland Jeffreys?

[SNWOLF]

I'm not sure whether anything was committed to record, but they played together on a popular TV show. Sonny's dressed casually, relaxed, in a good, fun generous mood. He moves like a spastic seagull on stage!

Here's a video of it:

http://www.garlandjeffreys.com/av/70s_qt.html

[Leeway]

Youmustbe - - Yeah there's plenty of solemnly-intoned pronouncements made about touchstones in jazz that we're supposed to genuflect to. And everyone has their own peculiar temperament, sensibility, personal relationship to the music, which will determine whether they agree intellectually, strongly agree emotionally, or at a loss for words as to why such shit should stir up such interest. So it appears as if the typical critic learning the ropes is just vapidly parroting portentous statements about singular works so that they'll sound erudite. I think that definitely happens, along with mildly rearranged plagiarism. But sometimes great work just sounds like shit to even the most attuned ears, and at least some people have the balls to dissent.

OTOH, there's always that popular critical game: hip, hipper, hippest. Debunking "touchstone" works is part of that game too. No doubt, it's always good to question and re-evaluate, but to go into "debunk" mode merely because something has achieved widespread respect or enjoyment, is not necessarily good. I was watching the movie, Andrei Rublev," and the great, old icon painter says to an admirer, who tells him how much his work is admired, "yes, today they admire, next week they tear it down."

[JSngry]

Never knew of that one! w/Leonard Cohen on "Night Music", yeah, but not w/Garland Jefferies on PBS. Now all I need to find is that version of "I Told Every Little Star" that Sonny played as the theme to some short-lived ABC sitcom. Got any leads on that?

GREAT video, btw. Especially how whenever the guy who the song's somewhat of a tribute to has a feature spot, they cut away to some footage of Garland Jefferies walking on the streets. Classy!

Art Blakely (more than once!) inDEED!

[Guest youmustbe]

Look, maybe West and Collossus are the greatest thing ever! I'm not saying they're bad. I just don't particularly like them. Never did. I like Newk;s Time...To me that's the Sonny Rollins of that period. That and Freedom Suite are the albums that define not only Sonny, but a particular time in Jazz when Sonny was New York, before Trane kicked junk and made him run and hide.

If I had listened to Ira Gitler, I would have passed on Chasin' The Trane, and so on and so on.