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The Organ


Jazz Kat

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But 90% is still left hand bass.

Really? No kidding?

And are some playing synchoronized left hand/pedal?

Yes. Your left hand is your bass. Pedals accent.

Ballads. Chord w/one hand, melody with the other, Left foot plays the pedals.

Look...maybe this will say it better....tale of 3 organists...

Lonnie Smith-ghosts his left hand a lot with the bass pedals and really plays the pedals A LOT.

Jimmy Smith-taps 2 or 3 unrelated pedals to accent the left hand bass. Lays on the occassional pedal to "make a statement"

Melvin Rhyne-saw him play all night and he had his foot kicked up under the stool. Never touched the pedals at all except on a ballad.

My point is this...3 Master organists playing varying degrees of pedals...from none to a lot. And they ALL sounded great. What did they have in common? Great left hand bass. They all know how to play pedals, (hell, they're master organists)...but the pedals are overrated by the general audience and critics and always have been. Pedals are "sexy."

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I'm not a fan of how the organ bass sounds without pedal accent. Yes, Mel Rhyne is great but (this is just my personal taste) I like to hear the "hump".

McGriff just taps the Bb. I think Smith shadows, doesn't he? Looked like it to me the few times I've seen him. Joey shadows. McDuff did a combination. Groove Holmes shadowed.

I like the effect of pedals and funk tunes, doing it in the Chester Thompson "Squid Cakes" type of way. It can be very funky.

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Still, I always hear people talk about...pedals, pedals, pedals...people have pedal fascination. But 90% is still left hand bass. Not easy at all to get that steady pulse in your left hand and flail away with your right. People seem to not understand that and don't give that ability the respect it deserves.

Pedals can be learned. Left hand bass is either you're born with it or not imho.

I once transcribed Don Patterson's solo on "Oleo" and, for kicks, a few choruses of Sam Jones's bass on (I think) the Bill Evans recording of the tune.

The similarities in the use of space between each note were pretty astounding. IMO it's one of the reasons why most pianists don't sound like Dave McKenna when they try to walk bass -- the separation of each note isn't as obvious to pick up on by ear as it is on the organ. Just a theory.

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I was just mellowing out to Smith at my grandmothers house. I was listening out for his use of the pedals. It keeps you occupied. I kind of figured you couldn't do a moving bass line at allegro tempo all with your feet. I thought it had to be syncronized.

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I was just mellowing out to Smith at my grandmothers house. I was listening out for his use of the pedals. It keeps you occupied. I kind of figured you couldn't do a moving bass line at allegro tempo all with your feet. I thought it had to be syncronized.

You can and there are cats that do. It's a matter of preference. Jimmy's method swings better, I think, and gives a lighter feel.

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I'm not a fan of how the organ bass sounds without pedal accent. Yes, Mel Rhyne is great but (this is just my personal taste) I like to hear the "hump".

McGriff just taps the Bb. I think Smith shadows, doesn't he? Looked like it to me the few times I've seen him. Joey shadows. McDuff did a combination. Groove Holmes shadowed.

I like the effect of pedals and funk tunes, doing it in the Chester Thompson "Squid Cakes" type of way. It can be very funky.

Jim, I guess I'm still up in the air, about how much and when, as far as pedal use. To me, it can start sounding too heavy if it's not done right. As for myself, I use the pedals more when I'm comping than when I'm soloing, just laying on when there's an opening that feels right. Adam Scone's more consciencous about the pedals at all times. That's just my feeling. Dr. Lonnie's on the pedals a ton (more than anyone else I've seen personally). Ghosting the whole time....I just haven't felt enough of the difference in sound to make the effort as far as my playing (i'm thinking about other stuff most of the time, and 'ghosting' isn't second nature to me)...it just feels like too much bass all the time when I do it. I'm not really "there" yet. That takes a lot of mastery. Like to see you play and what's you're approach...when's the organissimo video comin' out! :D

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Like to see you play and what's you're approach...when's the organissimo video comin' out! :D

My approach is probably closer to Lonnie Smith's. I ghost all the time, except on certain funk tunes where I use the pedals for accents and kicks.

My pedal playing has gotten a lot stronger than it was when "Boogaloo" was recorded. I am much more comfortable with them now and they are almost second nature.

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Like to see you play and what's you're approach...when's the organissimo video comin' out! :D

My approach is probably closer to Lonnie Smith's. I ghost all the time, except on certain funk tunes where I use the pedals for accents and kicks.

My pedal playing has gotten a lot stronger than it was when "Boogaloo" was recorded. I am much more comfortable with them now and they are almost second nature.

Yeah, I'd like to see that.

Leon Spencer told me that after he heard his own playing on Lou Donaldson's "Pretty Things" LP, he realized he was ghosting the notes a little too late and it wasn't syncing right. That's the feel I think I have when I ghost all the time...it doesn't sync as well.

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It's funny you mention that because one of the first thing's my mentor talked about when teaching me pedals is to put the pedal accent slightly *before* the note played by the left hand. I think I'm doing it right because he always tells me I sound good when I see him.

I guess I've seen enough organists to see that's there's several ways to skin a cat. McDuff, Patton, McGriff, Jimmy Smith....when I saw all those guys play, they weren't ghosting. Not until I saw Lonnie did I see one have that technique. By then I'd alread hooked up with Patton, he never stressed pedals other than accenting.

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It's all different tastes, like you said.  Nothing wrong with either method.

Yes, but can you play pedals with sandals on like the Dr.! :blink:

No sir. I play with shoes off. I can play with shoes, but it doesn't feel right. :)

Really? That always felt freaky to me. You can't really "kick" the pedals w/o shoes on :D ...but slightly seriously, that little thump seems less thumpy with bare feet.

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I play with socks, not bare feet. Although I have played with bare feet on a gig once, in the summer, outside. I had sandals on and they were getting in the way. That was really hard. Playing with socks allows me to slide easily from pedal to pedal and skin on pedal didn't work so well! :)

I remember a classical organist who was attended Univ of Texas used to come out a watch me play. He couldn't believe I was playing pedals with shoes on!!!! That's just stupid he used to say...always wanted to bring me some special booties they wear when they play the big pipe organs...

booties and funk? Oh yeah, that's probably where bootsie came from.. B-)

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