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Baby Face Willette


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#31 makpjazz57

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 01:58 PM

grant green plays on 4 bn cds with bfw

stop n listen - bfw
face 2 face - bfw
here tis - lou d
grant's first stand - gg

all 4 cds are good

ss1

Any source recommendations - most of the places I've looked - amazon.com, cduniverse, etc. - verrrry expensive. I'll pay it if I have to, but would sure love to be able to purchase more than one or two. At $30 each, maybe only 1.

Thanks,
Marla

#32 Tony Pusey

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 02:15 PM

I got Behind the 8 Ball and Mo Rock from Hiroshi at Early records last year.

#33 Kevin Bresnahan

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 03:55 PM

Any source recommendations - most of the places I've looked - amazon.com, cduniverse, etc. - verrrry expensive.  I'll pay it if I have to, but would sure love to be able to purchase more than one or two.  At $30 each, maybe only 1.

Thanks,
Marla


Marla, after I post this, it may not last long, but Dusty Groove has a Japanese CD copy of Face To Face for only $18.99. This is a steal at this price.

FWIW, they also have the two Argo dates on LP, but I really didn't think they were anywhere near as good as his Blue Notes. In fact, I dumped both of 'em.

Later,
Kevin

Edited by Kevin Bresnahan, 23 February 2005 - 03:59 PM.


#34 makpjazz57

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 07:30 PM

Kevin,

Happy New Year!

Many thanks...I had been meaning to check out Dusty Groove, so "Now's the Time."!

Marla

#35 Mark J

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 02:25 AM

Face to Face is the one to get (if you only want one). I remember I picked up this as a BN Connoisseur in the late 90s at Tower. I didn't know who Baby Face was, but I am a jazz organ fan and I thought the Reid Miles cover was great. That was a good buy for me! The whole album cooks - jazz, soul, funk, it has it all. And Fred Jackson too! :tup

#36 makpjazz57

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 08:27 AM

Face to Face is the one to get (if you only want one). I remember I picked up this as a BN Connoisseur in the late 90s at Tower. I didn't know who Baby Face was, but I am a jazz organ fan and I thought the Reid Miles cover was great. That was a good buy for me! The whole album cooks - jazz, soul, funk, it has it all. And Fred Jackson too!  :tup

Thanks for the "thumbs up" suggestion. I'm looking forward to getting recordings he did on his own, as well as recordings he did with guitarist Grant Green, a favorite of mine.

Regards,
Marla

#37 ariceffron

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 02:08 PM

WE WILL NEVER SEE A BABYFACE REISSUE AGAIN CAUSE BLUE NOTE THINKS BABY FACE MUSIC IS A THREAT TO SOCIETY AS WE KNOW IT

#38 JSngry

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 05:51 PM

Please elaborate.

#39 AfricaBrass

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 05:59 PM

Please elaborate.

If we use the LaRoca sensitivity test, we find:

Baby Face Willette =

Baby - All terrorists were once babies. Yes, it's true.

Face - Once again, those enemies of all that is good have faces. Those thugs may cover them up sometimes, but they still have them.

Will - That's what terrorists want us to have to write because they are going to get us. We need to live in fear.

e - There are two "e"s in his last name. "E" stands for enemy. It's just as plain as day.

tt - The two "t"s in his last name are symbols of the graves these enemies of all that is good and holy want to put us in.


There's no way we'll ever get a Baby Face Willette reissue in the good ol' apple pie eatin' US of A.

;) :P

#40 JSngry

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 06:05 PM

God help us if our enemies ever get their hands on MO' ROCK!

#41 AfricaBrass

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 06:07 PM

God help us if our enemies ever get their hands on MO' ROCK!

:lol: :lol:

God help us, period. :ph34r:

#42 JSngry

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 06:08 PM

The blues had a baby and they named it Baby Face.

#43 andybleaden

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 05:32 AM

Please elaborate.

Don't encourage the poor chap please.

He will be teaching 'real science' :alien: in US schools next and none of that evolution 'nonsense' :lol:



As it stands my favourite BFW track is Mo Rock .....got that groove already!!!

:bwallace:

#44 Big Wheel

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 12:13 AM

Listening to the Connoisseur of Face to Face now. It's really a shame the organ bass was not recorded/transferred louder--this is the first time I've listened to it with headphones, and I can finally sort of hear Baby Face's bass lines, which are really very interesting in some cases. Definitely changes the way I thought about some of the tunes!

#45 Soul Stream

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 01:56 AM

Listening to the Connoisseur of Face to Face now. It's really a shame the organ bass was not recorded/transferred louder--this is the first time I've listened to it with headphones, and I can finally sort of hear Baby Face's bass lines, which are really very interesting in some cases. Definitely changes the way I thought about some of the tunes!

The JRVG has much, much better bass. One of the reasons I'm so fond of the RVG masterings as far as organ recordings go...he knows how to handle the organ bass properly. Something McMaster doesn't do.

#46 montg

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 02:59 PM

The JRVG has much, much better bass


I recently picked up the JRVG of Face to Face from Dustygroove and the bass lines are clearly audible on my system--and they sound great, as does the entire band! I don't have the Conn, so I can't A/B although I've found other Conns (Stick up! and Shorter's Schizophrenia, for instance, to be a little light on the bass). I'm really lovin' this CD, by the way..I can't articulate exactly what makes Baby Face seem unique, but his approach is really distinctive to me.

#47 connoisseur series500

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 06:59 PM

FWIW, they also have the two Argo dates on LP, but I really didn't think they were anywhere near as good as his Blue Notes. In fact, I dumped both of 'em.

I did the same.

Wonder if I should have kept them...

#48 Chuck Nessa

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 07:04 PM

Listening to the Connoisseur of Face to Face now. It's really a shame the organ bass was not recorded/transferred louder--this is the first time I've listened to it with headphones, and I can finally sort of hear Baby Face's bass lines, which are really very interesting in some cases. Definitely changes the way I thought about some of the tunes!

The JRVG has much, much better bass. One of the reasons I'm so fond of the RVG masterings as far as organ recordings go...he knows how to handle the organ bass properly. Something McMaster doesn't do.

My BN/NY pressing is WAY better than the Conn. Kept the Conn for the bonus tune.

#49 Bill Fenohr

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 05:43 AM

During his short stint as a record reviewer for Down Beat, Kenny Dorham reviewed Behind The 8 Ball. As i remember he gave the record no stars and the gist of his review was that the record was a waste of good vinyl. I will try and dig the review out and post it.

#50 Soul Stream

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 11:13 AM

During his short stint as a record reviewer for Down Beat, Kenny Dorham reviewed Behind The 8 Ball. As i remember he gave the record no stars and the gist of his review was that the record was a waste of good vinyl. I will try and dig the review out and post it.

Wow, I'd LOVE to see that review. Funny to think KD would bash a fellow Blue Noter so badly. (Especially since I love that album!)

#51 Bill Fenohr

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 02:43 PM

Soul Stream,

Here is the Kenny Dorham review of Behind The 8 Ball from the July 29, 1965 issue of Down Beat.

" From what is happening on the first track, i sometmes wonder who selects the titles for these albums, because 8-Ball hits the nail on the head.

Universe is a eight-bar 6/8, we'll say--sanctified, blusey, listen-for-yourself thing. Is the universe round? If it is, it very well could be a bigger eight bars--out of sight...seven minutes and three seconds of it.

Amen.... Well, lets see here. Arranged by Willette... that alto... that poor guitarist is hung up in there--a victim of circumstance or choice?

Tacos Joe is a blues with a sancti-background. Guitarist White i like--but mucho tacos, hasta luego.

Roll'Em Pete ia listed on the cover but not on the record label. The a&r man or someone was in a hurry to get rid of this one. Wait a minute... Willette pays it .... guitarist just played a lick (musical phrase)--he's in trouble... poor fellow.

Just A Closer Walk. I don't like the idea of jazzing this. A line has to be drawn somewhere. I don't believe what i hear. He could,should be closer to thee or in.... St. James Infirmary. Well let's move on down the line to the next one, Sinnin' Sam, who is also behind the 8-ball.

There is nothing of sufficent musical content here to deserve a rating; so I'm leaving it where i found it--Behind The 8-Ball."
(K. D.)

Rating: no stars

Edited by Bill Fenohr, 08 April 2005 - 02:45 PM.


#52 Dan Gould

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 02:49 PM

Thanks for digging that out, Bill. What I'd like to know is, was KD ever so dismissive in any other review?

I do wonder if he'd have been more gentle with a better guitarist in the group.

#53 Soul Stream

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 01:27 AM

So did he dig "Song for the Universe?" Couldn't tell with all the hipster-isms going down. Hope so, cause it's one of the best organ cuts ever put down on wax.

KD seems pretty square.

#54 JSngry

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 01:56 AM

KD probably thought that Baby Face was the square one!

What that review brings into focus is how dismissive many of the more progressive beboppers were of the notion of "Soul Jazz". They found it regressive, tasteless, pandering, and simplistic, a step backwards, only one step above rock & roll, and, maybe, a step-and-a-have above R&B.

This is a reality that that we in the present are in danger of overlooking - all those organ sides that we love today were not universally loved by the entire jazz community in their time. But scratch the surface of today's jazz community and I think you'll find some of that sentiment still lingering, if only subconsciously.

#55 Harold_Z

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 07:25 AM

Yeah...I remember a Downbeat review of an organ group that summarized organ groups as "urban R&B".

I know several older organ group veterans who are largely dismissive of many organists as too loud and overbearing...and dismissive of players who seldom venture beyond 3 or 4 chords. From what I've heard of Baby Face he pretty much DID stick to 3 or change tunes. That's why a player like Larry Young is pretty much universally admired and more respected. He could play changes.

I'm not saying this to put down R&B or Baby Face Willette. I Love R&B and Baby Face is cool with me in small doses.

#56 marcello

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 10:01 AM

Jim and Harold have hit the nail on the head.

I grew up hearing a lot of organ groups; both on record and live. I own more than a few records by many of the organists that are always mentioned in this forum. For the most part, I have to REALLY be in mood to listen to a whole cd ( the one other great tink about a LP is you only had on side to play at a time ) unless it is harmonicaly interesting. It has to MOVE.
I used to only be able to listen to Groove Holmes and Larry Young for any length of time because a lot of organ records are, in fact when you get down to it, pretty boring unless your'e partying!

#57 Dan Gould

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 11:28 AM

I used to only be able to listen to Groove Holmes and Larry Young for any length of time because a lot of organ records are, in fact when you get down to it, pretty boring unless your'e partying!

Well I for one do NOT need to have a party to have, or want to have, some fun.

:tdown

#58 connoisseur series500

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Posted 10 April 2005 - 03:03 PM

because a lot of organ records are, in fact when you get down to it, pretty boring unless your'e partying!

Can't quite agree with you on this.

Organ tunes are good pick-me-uppers as well.

#59 marcello

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Posted 10 April 2005 - 04:08 PM

A little too much generalization on my part. I can agree with you both a be a little more festive in the future.

We were discussing from Dorham's view of the genre, correct? Again, I agree with Jim and at the same time won't rain on your parade.

#60 JSngry

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Posted 10 April 2005 - 04:28 PM

FWIW, I was just trying to explain KD's antipathy towards the Baby Face side.

Myself, I dig KD & BF both. Different bags, obviously, but there's a place for all of it in my world.




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