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My Funny Valentine - the Miles Davis album


skeith

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I have been comparing this one (which is taken from the Seven Steps box) to my japanese 9000 series Mastersound edition and have some comments. They both sound good and both sound different:

These are my initial impressions:

1) at the same or similar volumes the japanese version has a larger image and wider too and it gives me the impression or more depth as opposed to a flatter image on the american. This may be created however by the width of the image - not sureI feel like I'm in the first row with the japanese version but further back with the american.

2) Less surface noise or hiss on the american version.

3) american version is leaner perhaps but more focused of an image than the japanese.

Haven't decided which I like better yet.

I know Lon has said a few words on this. Any reaction to my comments here, Lon? Others?

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I have been comparing this one (which is taken from the Seven Steps box) to my japanese 9000 series Mastersound edition and have some comments.  They both sound good and both sound different:

These are my initial impressions:

1) at the same or similar volumes the japanese version has a larger image and wider too and it gives me the impression or more depth as opposed to a flatter image on the american.  This may be created however by the width of the image - not sureI feel like I'm in the first row with the japanese version but further back with the american.

2) Less surface noise or hiss on the american version.

3) american version is leaner perhaps but more focused of an image than the japanese.

Haven't decided which I like better yet.

I know Lon has said a few words on this.  Any reaction to my comments here, Lon? Others?

Haven't seen Lon's comments, and I'm no expert on this recording and it's various incarnations. Don't have another version besides an old LP copy...however. Bought it yesterday, and lOVE it...maybe it's just the music, but I thought the whole thing sounded wonderfully fresh and alive.

Edited by Soul Stream
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I haven't really done a lot of direct comparison, and I may not for a while. I don't remember commenting on this specific album before, I may have! I think that the box set sounds incredibly good in so many ways. . . .There are aspects of the Japanese that are a little better, and I really like the minilp copies I have because I had those 12" albums for so long, it's sort of like a bit of personal history for me, and I'll probably be keeping these lp facimile Sony versions unless I really need money at some point. . . .

I have found that Sony versions, even if there are Americans like Seth Foster and Mark Wilder credited, often have little things done to them that make them sound different from their American counterparts. .. . It can make you made dealing with all this. . . I don't know if I've been able to pull back before the damage was done! :wacko:

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Kill me if you want to.

I like the group better with George Coleman. Wayne Shorter never floated my boat the way George did/does. Sometimes I wonder if Miles had eyes on Wayne more for his writing, something Coleman isn't known for. We all know Miles needed writers.

Sorry dude, gotta part ways with you. Though I do think George's contributions to this band were outstanding (definitely better than Mobley's in '61), Wayne did so much mind-boggling stuff in his 5 1/2 years with Miles that it's not even in the same ballpark.

Guy

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Despite a tensile sophistication, George Coleman was, and still is, a more accessible and melodically generous player than Wayne Shorter. Wayne's playing was more abstract, his tone dark and knotty, his lyricism elliptical. That can be a real turn off for some people.

I agree with Guy Berger that Wayne is in another league - another universe. And like John Coltrane, in his compositions Shorter was able to distill a lyrical essence into an otherworldy beauty - like Infant Eyes. That's so melodic David Sanborn and others have covered it. And don't forget Wayne's soprano on "The Peacocks" - a truly spinetingling display of restive balladry.

Miles had been after Shorter even before he knew the full extent of his compositional brilliance - he'd been after him for many years. He knew what he needed, and when he got it, his music finally started to move forward.

Coleman was a brilliant player. Too conventional. Sam Rivers is a genius. Bad Fit. Wayne - perfect.

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I'm not understanding why Columbia has not been candid or forthcoming with consumers on this Miles Davis 1964 material.

In April 1992, Sony issued on CD "The Complete Concert 1964: My Funny Valentine + Four and More."

But it wasn't the complete concert. The CD set didn't include "Autumn Leaves," which was first issued on the Seven Steps box set in 2004.

The reissue of "My Funny Valentine" as a single disc would have been a great place to include "Autumn Leaves" as a bonus track for those who don't want to pay big bucks for the box set.

The stench increases when one notes that Sony is issuing a single CD in March "The best of the Seven Steps Box" which includes a version of Autumn Leaves.

But maybe Sony will include "Autumn Leaves" as a bonus track on the reissued "Four and More" due out in March?

Totally confusing.

Edited by monkboughtlunch
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I guess after hearing so much bashing of Coleman as a bad fit for the Davis band before I ever heard him....well, when I did hear those sides, I really loved them. To me, Coleman grounded that unit. With Wayne they were off into outer space, which is cool too. I just like it here on earth a little more than Miles did. :D

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I'm not understanding why Columbia has not been candid or forthcoming with consumers on this Miles Davis 1964 material.

In April 1992, Sony issued on CD "The Complete Concert 1964: My Funny Valentine + Four and More."

But it wasn't the complete concert. The CD set didn't include "Autumn Leaves," which was first issued on the Seven Steps box set in 2004.

The reissue of "My Funny Valentine" as a single disc would have been a great place to include "Autumn Leaves" as a bonus track for those who don't want to pay big bucks for the box set.

The stench increases when one notes that Sony is issuing a single CD in March "The best of the Seven Steps Box" which includes a version of Autumn Leaves.

But maybe Sony will include "Autumn Leaves" as a bonus track on the reissued "Four and More" due out in March?

Totally confusing.

It's not the easiest of positions for Sony either.

You could make a case that My Funny Valentine and Four & More should not have been reissued at all, and instead release a 2 disc complete (this time) show with the songs in order (as on the box.) But that would have angered people who grew up with the single albums.

They could release all of the above I suppose, but then they would catch people who don't pay enough attention to dates who'd and end up buying the same show twice (not that that doesn't happen with reissue programs anyway. :rolleyes: )

Regarding Jack Johnson and In A Silent Way, I think it's the right thing not to include bonus tracks. Yeah, usually I prefer to give the listener an option to decide whether or not to listen to bonus material, but this isn't like adding a 5 minute alternate "Two Bass Hit" at the end. When issued each album was one long side (discounting the "/" in the titles of the In A Silent Way titles.) To add bonus tracks to these to albums just musses 'em up in my opinion.

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Regarding Jack Johnson and In A Silent Way, I think it's the right thing not to include bonus tracks. Yeah, usually I prefer to give the listener an option to decide whether or not to listen to bonus material, but this isn't like adding a 5 minute alternate "Two Bass Hit" at the end. When issued each album was one long side (discounting the "/" in the titles of the In A Silent Way titles.) To add bonus tracks to these to albums just musses 'em up in my opinion.

I'm expecting a 2-disc "Legacy Edition" with the original album on disc 1 and some of the extra material on disc 2, in 5-10 years

Edited by GregK
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Regarding Jack Johnson and In A Silent Way, I think it's the right thing not to include bonus tracks. Yeah, usually I prefer to give the listener an option to decide whether or not to listen to bonus material, but this isn't like adding a 5 minute alternate "Two Bass Hit" at the end. When issued each album was one long side (discounting the "/" in the titles of the In A Silent Way titles.) To add bonus tracks to these to albums just musses 'em up in my opinion.

I'm expecting a 2-disc "Legacy Edition" with the original album on disc 1 and some of the extra material on disc 2, in 5-10 years

Sounds about right. :P

And let's not forget all of the opportunities with the ever happening format changes!

Personally I think they've blown it by not issuing music that came after the age of 78s onto that format. Just think of how cool the packaging would be for an all 78 Miles Smiles, etc.! (Interrupting the songs with a flip would just add to the hipness factor.)

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Track listing of incomplete 1964 Philharmonic Concerts from CD entitled: "Complete Concert 1964: My Funny Valentine + Four & More" (tracks out of sequence like original LPs, Autumn Leaves is missing) CD release date: Apr 21, 1992

DISC 1:

1. Introduction By Mort Fega

2. My Funny Valentine

3. All Of You

4. Go-Go (Theme And Re-Introduction)

5. Stella By Starlight

6. All Blues

7. I Thought About You

DISC 2:

1. So What

2. Walkin'

3. Joshua

4. Go-Go (Theme And Announcement)

5. Four

6. Seven Steps To Heaven

7. There Is No Greater Love

8. Go-Go (Theme And Announcement)

Track listing of 1964 Philharmonic concert (complete: note Autumn Leaves, and correct linear sequencing) from the Seven Steps to Heaven box, release date: Sep 28, 2004

DISC 4:

1. Introduction By Mort Fega

2. Autumn Leaves - (previously unreleased)

3. So What

4. Stella By Starlight

5. Walkin'

6. All Of You

7. Go-Go (Theme & Announcement)

DISC 5:

1. Introduction By Billy Taylor

2. All Blues

3. My Funny Valentine

4. Joshua

5. I Thought About You

6. Four

7. Seven Steps To Heaven

8. There Is No Greater Love

9. Go-Go (Theme & Re-introduction)

Track listing of 2005 My Funny Valentine reissue, release date Feb. 1, 2005 (why didn't they add "Autumn Leaves" to this as a bonus track?)

1. My Funny Valentine

2. All Of You

3. Stella By Starlight

4. All Blues

5. I Thought About You

Track listing of 2005 Four and More reissue, release date: March 15, 2005

1.So What

2. Walkin'

3. Joshua

4. Go Go (Theme And Announcement)

5. Four

6. Seven Steps To Heaven

7. There Is No Greater Love

8. Go Go (Theme And Announcement)

Track listing of 2005 sampler "Best Of Seven Steps: The Complete Recordings 1963-1964" release date March 15, 2005 (is the version of Autumn Leaves included here the from the 64 Philharmonic gig?)

1. Seven Steps To Heaven

2. I Fall In Love Too Easily

3. Autumn Leaves

4. Stella By Starlight

5. All Blues

6. If I Were A Bell

7. Walkin

----------------------

Maybe Kevin Bresnahan would consider asking Cuscuna why fans have to shell out big $$$ for the Seven Steps boxset to get the previously unissued Autumn Leaves from the 64 Philharmonic gig...

This smells.

--------------

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I don't know what "melodically generous" means, but Wayne was a whole lot more melodic than George.

I personally agree that Shorter was more melodic, in his own idiosyncratic way. However, as you discover if you make the effort to talk to people who prefer more conventional jazz, or who can't stand jazz at all, and if you pick their brains about what they consider melodic, you discover that people "hear" very differently. For many people, it comes down to a case of "where's the melody?"

Well, you cannot teach people where the melody is, they have to hear it. The people that get most offended by increasing "abstraction" are those whose identity and self-esteem rests upon the fact that they consider themselves artistically and intellectually sophisticated, yet when they have free jazz thrown at them, for example, it sounds like white noise, and they feel resentful because they feel locked out. How do people respond to these feelings? Simple. Condemnation.

Now, I'll listen to my Sam Rivers, Julius Hemphill, Cecil Taylor, etc et al, and to me it's perfectly lucid and melodic and beautiful, but to a lot of folks who consider themselves highly sophisticated in musical terms, it's self-indulgent wanking.

I think what people who have more advanced hearing forget is that, whatever the neurological peculiarities are that allow us to hear at a higher level, most people don't possess that faculty.

I once asked a friend of mine, who is a very intellectually and artistically sophisticated individual, but with real depth of understanding, why he hated jazz. The answer? Because it sounded like they were all randomly playing abitrary, unmelodic scales, all together but in their own worlds, not listening to each other.

Now, if that was quoted to the average jazzsnob, they would assume that person was a complete moron. Not so. They just could not "hear" beyond a certain level.

For a lot of people, including jazz fans, Wayne Shorter is not melodic. They consider that some of his compositions are, some of his work from the seventies onwards are (though they would be pretty confused by the back-to-acoustic work he's doing now) but he's not considered primarily as a melodic player at all.

I consider him melodic, because, however elliptical he gets, there's an exquisite lyrical coherence to his playing, a very logical and sublime poise. But that's how I hear him, and others with big ears (although, with their own particular interpretation).

The fact is, I've spoken directly to people who thought Miles should have kept George Coleman, people who found him more generous in his lyrical ideas, although I personally find Coleman more of a harmonic player. But however you slice it, his playing invites a lot of people in, whereas they feel shut out by Wayne Shorter. Yeah I find that weird too, but I've had that feedback.

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Maybe Kevin Bresnahan would consider asking Cuscuna why fans have to shell out big $$$ for the Seven Steps boxset to get the previously unissued Autumn Leaves from the 64 Philharmonic gig...

This smells.

Definitely a case where I wholeheartedly endorse piracy. :angry:

Edited by Guy Berger
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Kill me if you want to.

I like the group better with George Coleman.  Wayne Shorter never floated my boat the way George did/does.  Sometimes I wonder if Miles had eyes on Wayne more for his writing, something Coleman isn't known for.  We all know Miles needed writers.

Sorry dude, gotta part ways with you. Though I do think George's contributions to this band were outstanding (definitely better than Mobley's in '61), Wayne did so much mind-boggling stuff in his 5 1/2 years with Miles that it's not even in the same ballpark.

Guy

Gotta go with the Berger on this one. I was listening to the box in sequence the other day and just dropped my jaw when I put on the disc with the Shorter lineup. That unit was so tight from the very beginning. Amazing. I thought the diffference was remarkable. To these ears I think this was an easy choice for Miles. The box is great do not get me wrong. I really enjoy all the lineups. Really talking very small "improvements" here. Its just to these ears the second classic quintet was defintely the way to go.IMHO

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Some of the other upcoming Miles Davis reissues do list bonus tracks.

Here's what I've seen on the March 15th releases (all listed for $8.39 at CD Universe):

Miles Davis - Seven Steps to Heaven (Columbia/Legacy)

— Miles Davis (trumpet); George Coleman (tenor saxophone); Victor Feldman, Herbie Hancock (piano); Ron Carter (bass); Tony Williams, Frank Butler (drums); recorded in LA & NYC, April-May, 1963; includes two bonus tracks; remastered; with new liner notes by Bob Belden

Miles Davis - Miles Davis in Europe (Columbia/Legacy)

— Miles Davis (trumpet); George Coleman (tenor saxophone); Herbie Hancock (piano); Ron Carter (bass); Tony Williams (drums); recorded at Festival Mondial Du Jazz Antibes, Juan Les-Pin, France (7/27/1963); remastered; one bonus track; with new liner notes by Harvey Pekar

Miles Davis - Four and More: Recorded Live in Concert (Columbia/Legacy)

— Miles Davis (trumpet); George Coleman (tenor saxophone); Herbie Hancock (piano); Ron Carter (acoustic bass); Tony Williams (drums); Philharmonic Hall, New York, New York (2/12/1964); remastered; with new liner notes by John Ephland

Miles Davis - Miles in Tokyo (Columbia/Legacy)

— Miles Davis (trumpet); Sam Rivers (tenor saxophone); Herbie Hancock (piano); Ron Carter (acoustic bass); Tony Williams (drums); Kohseinenkin Hall, Tokyo, Japan (7/14/1964); remastered; with new liner notes by Takao Ogawa discussing Sam Rivers's role

Miles Davis - Miles in Berlin (Columbia/Legacy)

— Miles Davis (trumpet); Wayne Shorter (tenor saxophone); Herbie Hancock (piano); Ron Carter (bass); Tony Williams (drums); Berlin Philharmonie, Germany (9/25/1964); remastered; includes one bonus track; with new liner notes by Michelle Mercer

Edited by alankin
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