mikeweil Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Thanks for linking this - beautiful playing, and a nice video, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Glad you got this, LK... I assume you got Gaillaird II-- http://www.amazon.com/J--S-Bach-Suites-violoncelle-1007-1012/dp/B004NWHV6W/ Gaillard I, issued as two separate-- and beautifully packaged-- Ambrosie label CDs was excellent too, though the label could be elusive. I think her's is by far best of the 'period' performances; the rest, even Byslma I-- are pretty po' faced and though I have affection for Fournier and Tortelier, NONE of the traditional recordings would rank in my top 5; (and if one did, Starker it definitely wouldn't be, nor absurdly hyped-on-release Isserlis The Rostropovich is a bad and not-tasteless-enough joke.) Caals we gotta deal with vis a vis history of performance practice but its musical interest is otherwise slight. May I never hear Ron Carter (or William Parker) play arco again-- Got the Gaillard the other day after doing a lot of listening on Spotify. Here's what I wrote to a friend: 'That Ophelie Gaillard recording of the Bach cello suites arrived; one of the best pieces of music-making I've heard in a good while. Every phrase seems to almost literally speak. Her approach is probably more lower-register oriented than most any other; notes seem to vibrate from down there. Also, a tremendous sense of "grain" and angle as phrases ascend or descend, as though each note were being carved into a stick.' Yes, I got Gaillard II. Am now digging her disc of the Britten Cello Sonata and his Cello Suites 2 &3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 hope it doesn't rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Does anyone here actually own the RCA Starker? Chuck? It's going cheap, so I ordered the new version of this from amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Does anyone here actually own the RCA Starker? Chuck? It's going cheap, so I ordered the new version of this from amazon. Yes, it is! And the Mercury isn't - please do report! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Does anyone here actually own the RCA Starker? Chuck? It's going cheap, so I ordered the new version of this from amazon. Yes, it is! And the Mercury isn't - please do report! Mercury Starker is a part of the Mercury Living Presence box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Skip it. Starker is a wholly ersatz grail, not even in the top 10 of his basic style in Bach and only 'vaunted' because of the Wilma Cozart Fine cult; not an uninteresting story to be sure but not one important enough to put production over performance. Heinrich Schiff >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Tortelier-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXAqiDzu2PQ Starker doesn't even breathe the same air. Note there are two EMI Tortelier/Bach recordings; I prefer the first, 1960 recording, though the 1983 has its merits and advocates also. Does anyone here actually own the RCA Starker? Chuck? Edited August 1, 2012 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Skip it. Starker is a wholly ersatz grail, not even in the top 10 of his basic style in Bach and only 'vaunted' because of the Wilma Cozart Fine cult; not an uninteresting story to be sure but not one important enough to put production over performance. Heinrich Schiff >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Tortelier-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXAqiDzu2PQ Starker doesn't even breathe the same air. Note there are two EMI Tortelier/Bach recordings; I prefer the first, 1960 recording, though the 1983 has its merits and advocates also. Does anyone here actually own the RCA Starker? Chuck? Can't stand Schiff in these works. The way he hustles through the Prelude in Suite 1 strikes me as absurd, after which he moons about/pulls limb from limb in the Allemande. Tortelier's first EMI recording is a gem, don't know the second. Gaillard says she admires Tortelier, and it shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) ah but there are SIX suites LK... true, Schiff is very Gould-ian but I'll take his fleetness and caresses over the drone of flat-flooted schmoes all day every day. i'm having trouble posting youtube this moment but, after Tortelier, I ** think ** I'll still plump for Fournier on Arkiv as best in the old style. http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Suiten-für-Violoncello-solo/dp/B000001GRZ Can't stand Schiff in these works. The way he hustles through the Prelude in Suite 1 strikes me as absurd, after which he moons about/pulls limb from limb in the Allemande. Tortelier's first EMI recording is a gem, don't know the second. Gaillard says she admires Tortelier, and it shows. Edited August 1, 2012 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Good, I wanted to check out more Tortelier anyway - seems this might be an option then! However, a quick search seems to tell me that all available EMI releases contain the second recording (and the comments sound not too great on those). Would this here be the early recording? http://www.emiclassics.com/release/551604,5099964829821/tortelier-paul-sonaten-und-partiten-suiten I've just bought the big Menuhin box, not sure if his Sonatas & Partitas are in there in that - I can just about read that on the back cover on amazon - are his second recording and seem to be previously unissued on CD, so I guess they won't be in the box... but I wonder which version of Tortelier's is in there. The Big Tortelier box also has the 1982 versions, as is stated in a comment here: http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Tortelier-Great-Recordings-Coffret/dp/B0031IHBDC/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Putting the "cult of mercury" aside, ain't nothing wrong with Starker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 re: Tortelier - sorry, didn't look close enough. The early recording is here: http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1713529 And as far as I can read then, it's the same as on the EMI 4CD set: http://www.amazon.com/Bach-violoncelle-Sonates-Partitas-Coffret/dp/B0040UEI5Y/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Putting the "cult of mercury" aside, ain't nothing wrong with Starker. Elsewhere, yes, but in the Bach Suites, as Moms says, he hasn't a clue. ah but there are SIX suites LK... true, Schiff is very Gould-ian but I'll take his fleetness and caresses over the drone of flat-flooted schmoes all day every day. i'm having trouble posting youtube this moment but, after Tortelier, I ** think ** I'll still plump for Fournier on Arkiv as best in the old style. http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Suiten-für-Violoncello-solo/dp/B000001GRZ Can't stand Schiff in these works. The way he hustles through the Prelude in Suite 1 strikes me as absurd, after which he moons about/pulls limb from limb in the Allemande. Tortelier's first EMI recording is a gem, don't know the second. Gaillard says she admires Tortelier, and it shows. But if Schiff screws up (IMO) the first two movements of Suite 1, why should I persist? I used to like Fournier, but after Gaillard he sounded quite stiff and stodgy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Yeah, I take exception to the Starker comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I like it. Sound is great. I'm really enjoying the playing as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Thanks Lon! A friend let me have what I think is an EMI recording (Jellinek/Legge, Abbey Road, 1957-59) - haven't yet listened to it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I had a more detailed listen into Ophelie Gaillard's recording, and put it on top of my wish list. She has a great, almost virile tone, excellent intonation, lost of expression, thanks a lot for the recommendation. This, btw, was released on Aparte, an new, dedicated French label which has some fine French harpsichord recordings in their catalogue. I had a listen to part of Hidemi Suzuki's last evening and was disappointed, I have to withdraw my recommendation. His intonation leaves to be desired in the 5th and 6th suites, and compared to Gaillard he is almost bland. What a pity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy T. Frog Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Any thoughts on Tanya Tomkins? I picked this up after missing her performance of the complete suites at the Library of Congress. It's only the first recoding of the complete suites I've heard, so I have no basis for comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) Aparte, an new, dedicated French label which has some fine French harpsichord recordings in their catalogue. Mike, Could you recommend a few? I know they released a 2CD-set with François Couperin harpsichord works by Blandine Verlet and also a 2CD-set with Louis Couperin harpsichord works by Christophe Rousset, but I've never heard them. Rousset's interpretations of François Couperin's Livres de clavecin on Harmonia Mundi are interesting, but the CDs are OOP and insanely expensive. I must admit that I've neglected CDs with solo harpsichord baroque pieces in general. Any recommendations anyone? Absolutely no piano, please Edited August 4, 2012 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I must admit that I've neglected CDs with solo harpsichord baroque pieces in general. Any recommendations anyone? Absolutely no piano, please This is off-topic here of course, but I've recently been recommended by D.D. to check out Blandine Rannou's Rameau and it's wonderful. Go to www.discplus.ch and put in "ZZT-010301" into the full text search field and get it for 10€ (plus shipping, which of course might make that a less attractive offer than others you might find). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I'll post a new, dedicated topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) ** EVERYTHING IS WRONG WITH STARKER ** tone, rhythm, articulation, the works! the guy had zero clue when he started and had no better ideas three dreary recordings later. just because it was well-marketed in an era of few choices doesn't mean it's worth hearing today. I hope the 'audophiles' who have the 'cherished' SACD of the Living Presence recording at least put on the proper 'interconnects'; ridiculous that some alleged 'golden ears' don't realize the importance of having the proper interconnects for particular types of music: chamber, orchestral, keyboard, vocal etc. There are no youtube clips but Amazon has samples of the superb & superbly individual Bruno Cocset set-- http://www.amazon.com/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Suites-Violoncello/dp/B00006L7TD Edited August 4, 2012 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I'll post a new, dedicated topic. Hans, I'll be out of town for a week, until then you can have a look at my German language Ancient Music forum: Prospero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) I'll post a new, dedicated topic. Hans, I'll be out of town for a week, until then you can have a look at my German language Ancient Music forum: Prospero Thanks Mike. Edited August 4, 2012 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) ** EVERYTHING IS WRONG WITH STARKER ** tone, rhythm, articulation, the works! the guy had zero clue when he started and had no better ideas three dreary recordings later. just because it was well-marketed in an era of few choices doesn't mean it's worth hearing today. I hope the 'audophiles' who have the 'cherished' SACD of the Living Presence recording at least put on the proper 'interconnects'; ridiculous that some alleged 'golden ears' don't realize the importance of having the proper interconnects for particular types of music: chamber, orchestral, keyboard, vocal etc. There are no youtube clips but Amazon has samples of the superb & superbly individual Bruno Cocset set-- http://www.amazon.com/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Suites-Violoncello/dp/B00006L7TD Whatever Brian. Your opinion is duly noted. I can't share it. Hope you listen with the proper quiver of insults handy. Edited August 4, 2012 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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