Alon Marcus

David Murray

224 posts in this topic

"How could a list of inside/outside tenor greats not include George Adams and Roland Kirk? "

good point, but these guys are insisting on only the living -

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How could a list of inside/outside tenor greats not include George Adams and Roland Kirk?

I don't think any list of anything can be complete such that it satisfies everyones' individual tastes and preferences. There are no absolute truths.

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next thing you know, they'll insist it can only be tenor players who can see and breathe -

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Found Woyzeck's Death on Amazon and ordered it.

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great - there are certain cuts in which the solos are based on changes -

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I'm sure there are many contemporaries that I have not named -

well, than, let's add another: Marty Krystal

:tup

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Who's Marty Krystal?

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Check out his playing with Buell Neidlinger (K2B2, Soul Note, Antilles).

Edited by paul secor

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I liked relyles long post

Paul Dunmall might be a bit more out - but he belongs on the list

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Also, Frank Lowe.

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Marty Krystal lives on the West Coast, has recorded frequently with Buell Nieldlinger, and is, in my opinion, one of the truly great saxophonists -

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Marty Krystal lives on the West Coast, has recorded frequently with Buell Nieldlinger, and is, in my opinion, one of the truly great saxophonists -

I will check him out.

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Nonetheless I have heard nothing that has diminished my overall appreciation of Murray’s music and in fact everything I have heard has only enhanced my opinion that David Murray is one of the most compelling voices of his generation in the music.

Great post, relyles. Couldn't have said it better.

Luca

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Not that sure where the line between "inside" and "outside" can or should be drawn (I can see that some might feel that a player like, say, Ernie Krivda never really goes "outside," while others might feel that he's never really quite "in"), but I'd add:

Ab Baars

Tobias Delius

(both of the above are Dutch)

Ernie Krivda

Rich Perry

Mark Shim

Walt Weiskopf

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Also, without any doubt, the two-tenor frontline of Quartet Out: Pete Gallio and Jim Sangrey. If they're still available, check out the band's "Welcome to the Party" and "Live at the Meat House."

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One of the really great inside/outside recording I have is by Scottish tenor/soprano player Tommy Smith.

His "Christmas Concert" cd is like he is chaneling Trane at Yuletide.

Santa Trane!

It's on his own label, Spartacus RecordsLINK

I can just imagine what the audience was thinking when they went to this concert, expecting some nice, pleasant,peaceful Xmas songs on a snowy Scotland evening!

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Also, without any doubt, the two-tenor frontline of Quartet Out: Pete Gallio and Jim Sangrey. If they're still available

Last I looked, I was still alive. Pete will never die, in spite of his numerous efforts.

It's a blessing and a curse, I tell ya...

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Jim,

This is the perfect time to ask what your son thinks of your performances? In one of your previous posts I found it very interesting how he'd share music with you that he'd been listening to..... and how happy you were when you liked it too. Very cool! Great father/son dynamics.

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Charlie genuinely digs Quartet Out & Captain Sambeaux (the EAI thing I sometimes participate in). His friends do too, which is a real surprise. Too bad they're all under 21 and can't come into a club.

Like most fathers & sons, we have our share of rocky times, but music is one thing that inevitable smooths things out. Or, as when he wants to play that Screaming Rock shit at full volume in the car, roughs things up again. :g

Hey - whatcha' goona do? ;)

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Hey Allen, how about adding Dewey Redman to your list?

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got it - Dewey Redman is added -

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When I first heard David Murray, back in the late 70's/early 80's, I found it terribly exciting music - passionate, full of feeling and movement and verve, both challenging in its "free" aspects and reassuringly earthly in its gospel roots. He has an unmistakable personal sound, too. That heated spectacle and personal commitment is still what I admire in Murray. It's a very positive, soulful vibe.

However, over the years I became less taken with him. I guess it's because I was continuing to listen to lots more music, coming into contact with most of the players on Allen Lowe's list, and the shortcomings that have been mentioned started to be noticeable to me. When he began playing with his more straight-ahead quartet, I remember listening to him play "Impressions" and thinking, "he's just not on top of it." Compared to so many "inside" players whom he was explicitly placing himself beside, his playing seemed imprecise in both its phrasing and its melodic flow. I'm not a musician, so these remained (and remain) impressions I have of a lack of focus on the detailed level in favor of just wailing over the top in what came to seem a predictable routine. Therefore when I read musicians' critiques of his grasp of harmony and meter, it made sense to me. (I do dig his compositions, though.)

Ten or more years ago I had the opportunity to see Murray's octet and Wynton's septet within the same week. Compared to Murray's crew, Wynton and his boys seemed tight-assed and smug, but compared to Wynton's group, Murray and co. seemed sloppy and almost unprofessional. Murray had most of the joy and the self-indulgence; Wynton's band had most of the craft and the inhibition. I remember being glad jazz had both extremes and, especially, plenty in the middle. Joy and craft together, that's where you want the music to be.

I'm happy to hear Jim S's estimation that Murray continues to work on his craft. I don't listen to him as much as I used to, but I still recognize all he has to offer. And if you're going to be a crowd-pleaser, better to do it with all his warmth and generosity than with sterile mastery of convention.

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very good points and, indeed, part of the whole point of certain post-modern players is an edge-of-the seat imprecision meant as commentary on certain kinds of slicker-played jazz. With Murray, however, it does appear to cross the line into sloppines; that's why I mention Marty Krystal, who does it so much better. Get some of the Neidlinger stuff,which is great. Also, some years ago they did a great LP of Monk tributes -

Edited by AllenLowe

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got it - Dewey Redman is added -

:tup

I wasn't sure if you might come in with "he hasn't really got his changes together" or something, but from recent evidence (I heard him live a few years ago and also heard a recent concert broadcast) I think he's got his bag together pretty well - although he seems to have weak days/nights more often than one would wish...

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