Gilad Atzmon

[Guest che]

Hi.

I have been listening this evening to the album 'Exile' by Gilad Atzmon & The Orient House Ensemble. Now this is one of my fave albums of the past few years. It combines great jazz, with traditional Middle Eastern music and a strong political message.

I have seen Atzmon in concert twice, and I enjoyed the concert both times, and he has some strong views on things which he articulates during the performance. The music is fantastic.

Anyone have this album or are familier with Atzmon's music?

Che.

[couw]

the guy may indeed need an own topic. If you do a search, there's some lively discussion on his music and his political stand.

[Guest che]

the guy may indeed need an own topic. If you do a search, there's some lively discussion on his music and his political stand.

Sorry when I did an artist serach I could not find him.

Anyway what do you think?

Che.

[SEK]

Gilad Atzmon has been a favorite since I heard and recorded his group's marvelous November 19, 2004 concert that was on the BBC website for about a week (Thank you, Bev Stapleton!). I find Atzmon's mastery and integration of so many musics and styles stimulating and compelling. He and the rest of his Oriental House Ensemble must be one of the tightest and most flexible bands around. Also I think that I sympathise with most of his political perspectives, though that's not necessary to connect with his wonderful music.

I recently bought "Exile", the only Gilad Atzmon recording currently available here in the states. I think that it's quite beautiful, and I've played it several times over the past month.

[Guest che]

Gilad Atzmon has been a favorite since I heard and recorded his group's marvelous November 19, 2004 concert that was on the BBC website for about a week (Thank you, Bev Stapleton!). I find Atzmon's mastery and integration of so many musics and styles stimulating and compelling. He and the rest of his Oriental House Ensemble must be one of the tightest and most flexible bands around. Also I think that I sympathise with most of his political perspectives, though that's not necessary to connect with his wonderful music.

I recently bought "Exile", the only Gilad Atzmon recording currently available here in the states. I think that it's quite beautiful, and I've played it several times over the past month.

Thanks for the post and I agree with what you say, the album is very good. To me ot has a great deal to offer. I enjoyed the vocals, not usually something I like and as you suggest Atzmon's playing is both stimulating and controlled.

Che.

[Dan Gould]

I'm glad we're not talking about this Gilad:

He scares me.

[Guest che]

I wonder does his political and social ideas make his music more or less interesting, or more or less relevant?

Che.

[Tony Pusey]

Che, Depends, do you find that Hegel helps to illuminate and increase the relvance and enjoyment of Jazz? Do Adornos writings make Jazz more or less interesting?

In a recent Jazz Review interview he does say that people tend to take his comments too seriously, an understandable error I would say having read his earnest contributions! And he rubbishes Zorns Radical Jewish Music imprint. Must say however that I have enjoyed what I have heard of him so far,(Tho not yet sure if he is the cats pyjamas...)

[Guest che]

Che, Depends, do you find that Hegel helps to illuminate and increase the relvance and enjoyment of Jazz? Do Adornos writings make Jazz more or less interesting?

In a recent Jazz Review interview he does say that people tend to take his comments too seriously, an understandable error I would say having read his earnest contributions! And he rubbishes Zorns Radical Jewish Music imprint. Must say however that I have enjoyed what I have heard of him so far,(Tho not yet sure if he is the cats pyjamas...)

Well not to sure about Hegal, since I am not aware that he played Jazz Atzmon does of course, and his politics are interesting to many people. I like people like Billy Bragg and Bob Dylan, because they have or had a political position that I agree with.

Is it possible that people are drawn to Atzmon's music because of his politics?

Che.

[A Lark Ascending]

I suspect some people who are very political might learn of him and be drawn to him by his ideas and then come to like the music (in the same way as Dick Gaughan or Leon Rosselson can attract politicos who then come to like the music).

But Atzmon (to his great credit) tours constantly and makes a point of playing the smaller clubs in the UK. I know his politics are not welcome by some members of those clubs who have right of centre views.

Personally I like the music primarily; I don't agree with everything he says politically but he does give me something to think about.

All power to him. Jazz is a wide and varied music - there's room for political polemics alongside everything else.

Anyway, anyone who is a mate of Robert Wyatt has to have something good about him!

[Worth watching out for the Urban Jazz Ensemble on tour where he can be heard in a superb front line alongside Michael Buckley (from Ireland) and the great Peter King.]

Edited February 23, 2005 by Bev Stapleton

[Guest che]

I suspect some people who are very political might learn of him and be drawn to him by his ideas and then come to like the music (in the same way as Dick Gaughan or Leon Rosselson can attract politicos who then come to like the music).

But Atzmon (to his great credit) tours constantly and makes a point of playing the smaller clubs in the UK. I know his politics are not welcome by some members of those clubs who have right of centre views.

Personally I like the music primarily; I don't agree with everything he says politically but he does give me something to think about.

All power to him. Jazz is a wide and varied music - there's room for political polemics alongside everything else.

Bev.

Thanks for the post, and you articulated what I was trying to say very well. I agree that he travels well and plays many small venues, and in this respect is prepared to put both his politics and his music were his mouth is B-)

Che.

[mikeweil]

I wonder does his political and social ideas make his music more or less interesting, or more or less relevant?

I had no idea about his political opinions when a friend gave me a copy of EXILE, and I found the music to be very interesting and accomplished, but that some of the elements are more or less confronted than really integrated, which of course can be viewed as a mirror of the social situation in Israel or the exile he lives in. When I learned more about him in the thread couw linked above, it seemed logical to me. Methinks a radical attitude in life will show in a radical attitude in music - his music is not easy, a little disjointed, it seems to me. But I also think it is no criterion for its relevance.

[Guest che]

I wonder does his political and social ideas make his music more or less interesting, or more or less relevant?

I had no idea about his political opinions when a friend gave me a copy of EXILE, and I found the music to be very interesting and accomplished, but that some of the elements are more or less confronted than really integrated, which of course can be viewed as a mirror of the social situation in Israel or the exile he lives in. When I learned more about him in the thread couw linked above, it seemed logical to me. Methinks a radical attitude in life will show in a radical attitude in music - his music is not easy, a little disjointed, it seems to me. But I also think it is no criterion for its relevance.

Mike.

I enjoyed reading your post.

I also find his music interesting, a mixture of the traditional, folk and jazz and he brings this together into a strong political message.

To my way of thinking Atzmon, who is Jewish takes a position that many Jewish people take, but who are 'drowned' out by the majority. He makes the voices heard through the music he creates.

To many music should partly reflect 'social, economic and politcal reality', the real skill and art, is to make it sound good. I think he does this very well.

Che.

[Guy Berger]

Is it possible that people are drawn to Atzmon's music because of his politics?

I hope not -- he's an anti-Semite and apparently a nut in general (he claimed that the recent tsunami was human-caused).

Guy

[Guest che]

Is it possible that people are drawn to Atzmon's music because of his politics?

I hope not -- he's an anti-Semite and apparently a nut in general (he claimed that the recent tsunami was human-caused).

Guy

Could you let me know the reference or context of the comments he made? I would be very interested in this.

Che.

[Guy Berger]

Is it possible that people are drawn to Atzmon's music because of his politics?

I hope not -- he's an anti-Semite and apparently a nut in general (he claimed that the recent tsunami was human-caused).

Guy

Could you let me know the reference or context of the comments he made? I would be very interested in this.

Che.

For the tsunami comments, look through the Miles-L archives. Someone went to one of his shows in the past month and heard him say something along the lines of "since a tsunami this bad hasn't happened in 25 generations, it must have been caused by humans".

As far as anti-Semitism, in the man's own words:

Since America currently enjoys the status of the world's only super power and since all the Jews listed above declare themselves as devoted Zionists, we must begin to take the accusation that the Jewish people are trying to control the world very seriously. It is beyond doubt that Zionists, the most radical, racist and nationalistic Jews around, have already managed to turn America into an Israeli mission force. The world's number one super power is there to support the Jewish state's wealth and security matters. The one-sided pro-Zionist take on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the American veto against every 'anti-Israeli' UN resolution, the war against Iraq and now the militant intentions against Syria, all prove beyond doubt that it is Zionist interests that America is serving. American Jewry makes any debate on whether the 'Protocols of the elder of Zion' are an authentic document or rather a forgery irrelevant. American Jews do try to control the world, by proxy. So far they are doing pretty well for themselves at least. Whether the Americans enjoy the deterioration of their state's affairs will no doubt be revealed soon.

[Guest che]

Since America currently enjoys the status of the world's only super power and since all the Jews listed above declare themselves as devoted Zionists, we must begin to take the accusation that the Jewish people are trying to control the world very seriously. It is beyond doubt that Zionists, the most radical, racist and nationalistic Jews around, have already managed to turn America into an Israeli mission force. The world's number one super power is there to support the Jewish state's wealth and security matters. The one-sided pro-Zionist take on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the American veto against every 'anti-Israeli' UN resolution, the war against Iraq and now the militant intentions against Syria, all prove beyond doubt that it is Zionist interests that America is serving. American Jewry makes any debate on whether the 'Protocols of the elder of Zion' are an authentic document or rather a forgery irrelevant. American Jews do try to control the world, by proxy. So far they are doing pretty well for themselves at least. Whether the Americans enjoy the deterioration of their state's affairs will no doubt be revealed soon.

Ok depends on which side of the fence you sit?

People like Noam Chomsky have been articulating a similar position for years. Some of what he says is factual, the US has vetoed just about every anti-Israeli resolution for years.

What he writes is not that far away from some of the ideas that Norman Finkelstein writes about in his seminal book "The Holocaust Industry". Now what Finkelstein, Chomsky and Atzmon have in commen is that they are jewish.

What they would all argue is that once we get into talking about the State of Israel, in any other terms than the death of so many at the hands of the Nazis, or a race of people that the Arabs wabt to destroy then we are all Zionists B-)

Che.

[Guy Berger]

Ok depends on which side of the fence you sit?

People like Noam Chomsky have been articulating a similar position for years. Some of what he says is factual, the US has vetoed just about every anti-Israeli resolution for years.

What he writes is not that far away from some of the ideas that Norman Finkelstein writes about in his seminal book "The Holocaust Industry". Now what Finkelstein, Chomsky and Atzmon have in commen is that they are jewish.

What they would all argue is that once we get into talking about the State of Israel, in any other terms than the death of so many at the hands of the Nazis, or a race of people that the Arabs wabt to destroy then we are all Zionists B-)

Nope. Some of the stuff he's saying isn't anti-Semitic. But along with that, he repeats one of the major anti-Semitic claims ("the Jews are trying to take over the world") and follows it up by speculating that the most notorious anti-Semitic tract in history (The Protocols of the Elders of Zion) might actually not be a forgery. I disagree with Chomsky and Finkelstein on many issues, but I'm not aware of either one making any such statements.

He's an Anti-Semite.

Guy

[Guest che]

Ok depends on which side of the fence you sit?

People like Noam Chomsky have been articulating a similar position for years. Some of  what he says is factual, the US has vetoed just about every anti-Israeli resolution for years.

What he writes is not that far away from some of the ideas that Norman Finkelstein writes about in his seminal book "The Holocaust Industry". Now what Finkelstein, Chomsky and Atzmon have in commen is that they are jewish.

What they would all argue is that once we get into talking about the State of Israel, in any other terms than the death of so many at the hands of the Nazis, or a race of people that the Arabs wabt to destroy then we are all Zionists  B-)

Nope. Some of the stuff he's saying isn't anti-Semitic. But along with that, he repeats one of the major anti-Semitic claims ("the Jews are trying to take over the world") and follows it up by speculating that the most notorious anti-Semitic tract in history (The Protocols of the Elders of Zion) might actually not be a forgery. I disagree with Chomsky and Finkelstein on many issues, but I'm not aware of either one making any such statements.

He's an Anti-Semite.

Guy

Ok I suggest we move this to the politics section.

See you there B-)

Che.

[Alexander Hawkins]

[Worth watching out for the Urban Jazz Ensemble on tour where he can be heard in a superb front line alongside Michael Buckley (from Ireland) and the great Peter King.]

I'd love to hear this front line. I don't know Michael Buckley, but Peter King...What can I say? Kenny Clarke and Bud Powell can't have been wrong, for starters...

[Guest che]

Here is a BBC World Music review of his last album

Gilad Atzmon

Exile

(Tiptoe)

The first bars of 'Dal'ouna', an ominous bowed double bass, an incantatory vocal in Arabic from the Palestinian singer Reem Kelani and soprano saxophone from Gilad Atzmon himself, usher you into Exile with a striking introduction.

This gives way to a song driven by a repetitive bass figure, jumpy Israeli riffs, syncopated accordion and subtle drums. Somewhere between jazz and the music of the Middle East, and exploiting the similarities between the music and the experiences of the Jewish and Palestinian peoples.

The song perfectly states Gilad Atzmon's aim: similarity should outweigh difference; difference should be celebrated.

Atzmon explicitly makes the point that modern Israel was founded on a notion of 'return' and asks: "How can modern Zionists ... be so blind when it comes to a very similar Palestinian desire?" To make his point, he's taken traditional Jewish songs, the anthem of the '67 War, a melody from the film Salach Shabati and Palestinian songs, 'Dal'ouna', 'Ramallah', 'Imhaaha', and reinterpreted them in a jazz context.

Middle Eastern basslines and and harmonies pass through jazz chord voicings and arrangements, a chorus will give way to a synchronised Middle Eastern riff; Hebrew lyrics about longing for homeland are sung in Arabic, an Eastern European ballad about a town burnt in a pogrom is re-christened 'Jenin'.

Much of the album's success has to be down to Gilad Atzmon's splendid command of the idioms of jazz and Middle Eastern music. His soprano and alto sax slips between the two with a stinging melancholy ('Jenin'), hopeful insistence ('Al-quds') and something like joy ('La Côte'), while Frank Harrison on piano and Yaron Stavi (bass) and Asaf Sirkis (drums and percussion) all play with a wonderful collective touch which is subtle, energetic and unconventional.

While some may find Exile's premise provocative, it's satisfying music that reaffirms the essentially constructive nature of collaboration.

Reviewer: Neil Bennun

Che.

[Guest che]

I mean of course last but one

Che.

[Guest che]

This is a review of his last album from the Guardian ( UK Newspaper)

Gilad Atzmon, Musik - Rearranging the 20th Century

(Enja)

John Fordham

Friday October 8, 2004

The Guardian

Buy Gilad Atzmon now

With last year's Exile album, expatriate Israeli reed virtuoso Gilad Atzmon cemented his reputation as a dominant figure in European and Middle Eastern-influenced world-music. The disc was an evocative flight across the music of Palestine, Romania, Israel, Britain and Italy, with American jazz still powering its engine. It also featured the spine-tingling sound of the Palestinian singer Reem Kelani.

This set similarly draws on many cultures, and is fired by Atzmon's campaigning urge to resist the globalisation of musical taste. Kelani is absent, but Argentinian singer Guillermo Rozenthuler opens a different window on Latin-American sounds for Atzmon, and Robert Wyatt makes a memorable guest appearance to furnish an idiosyncratic link to jazz in explaining how the devil got the best tunes: "In the beginning there was the bird and the bird was bop/ That's bebop, short for Beelzebop."

Rozenthuler's sad-cafe song draws you into something like an Almodóvar soundtrack, bursts of frantic tango open with Atzmon in wedding-party mood, but turning ever more Coltrane-like on soprano. Forlornly romantic slow dances against sighing string ensembles are elbowed aside by diversions into Roll Out the Barrel (full of cop-siren sounds from Atzmon's sax, and roaring abstract street-noise), Mac the Knife, a collective New Orleans-like jam, slow and spookily atmospheric clarinet against reverberating low drones, and a whooping account of Lili Marlene against edgily metronomic drums. Jumpier, a little more indulgent of Atzmon's literary side, and a little less resolved in shape than Exile, but the work of an independent and unruly spirit still in turbulent evolution.

Che.

[SEK]

I don't know why "Exile" is the only Gilad Atzmon CD sold in the USA. I also liked very much the music from his most recent CD, "Musik, ...", that he played in his London concert that was on the BBC website for a short time.

[Guest che]

I don't know why "Exile" is the only Gilad Atzmon CD sold in the USA. I also liked very much the music from his most recent CD, "Musik, ...", that he played in his London concert that was on the BBC website for a short time.

Hi.

Sometimes there seem to be distribution issues.

The album is as good as 'Exile' and I would recommend that you try and listen to it. Atzmon is a very talented musician,

Che.