What 78 are you spinning right now ?

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

hey jeff, welcome to the board (saw u only have a few posts) and sure, ill list: here it is!

Trovatore- Miserere / duet with orchestra in italian

act 4

Frances Alda- E. Caruso

s8042A

S

__

8

[upside down]-> "2"

so u have a book that decodes these?

Edited March 7, 2009 by chewy

[jeffcrom]

hey jeff, welcome to the board (saw u only have a few posts) and sure, ill list: here it is!

Trovatore- Miserere / duet with orchestra in italian

act 4

Frances Alda- E. Caruso

s8042A

S

__

8

[upside down]-> "2"

so u have a book that decodes these?

Thanks, chewy - yeah, I just discovered this forum, and I'm already hooked.

I'm not a Caruso expert, but a while back I found the BMG/Victor 1990 Complete Caruso CD set at a great price and snatched it up. I didn't have any context to process all that music with, so I got the Bolig Caruso Records: A History and Discography and photocopied the hard-to-find Caruso On Records by Aida Favia-Artsay, which a local university library had. These helped me get a grip on this huge body of music. I also have a few Caruso 78s.

Okay, your Caruso record is a later "transcription," or copy, of the original masters - probably from the early to mid 1920s. To quote Bolig: "Nobody knows what the symbol "S/8" represents, but the records are transcriptions of the original recordings." All that means is that hard-core Caruso collectors aren't going to want your record, but who cares - just enjoy it.

[jeffcrom]

pppfft! i dont believe u for a second on that!!! A Paul Bley 78 exists as much as an Anna-Nicole Smith 8mm "film-loop!

I wouldn't have believed it myself, except that I have the record. I bet that makes Paul feel really old!

[Big Beat Steve]

And why not, Chewy?? That record by Paul Bley was recorded in Feb. 1954, and 78s were commonly made and released until 1958.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

wow, that is interesting info: no one knows what that symbol represents?!?!?! too bad they BLEW UP all the clues! thanks for your insight man.....

and senor big beat: if you say so, but thats really something id have to see to believe-- paul bley on 78?!? r u sure youre not confusing paul whiteman

[Clunky]

Next up on my newly refurbished 40 yr old Lenco

Red Norvo- Congo Blues/ Get happy Comet, a bit of distortion on the first side but way better sound overall compared to the Dial CD of the same material

[jeffcrom]

Just traded for a new box of 78s. The favorites so far:

Sarah Vaughan: My Kinda Love/I Could Make You Love Me (Musicraft) The second side has a Freddie Webster trumpet intro, sounds like.

Slam Stewart Quartet: Coppin' Out/Blues Collins (Musicraft)

McKinney's Cotton Pickers: Milenberg Joys/Shim-Me-Sha-Wabble (Victor) Never heard the second side before now, and my CD take of "Milenberg" is different, so this was a real find. Really vibrant sound from Victor on this one, too.

Chris Kenner - Sick and Tired (Imperial) Tough New Orleans R & B - just jumps out of the speakers.

[jeffcrom]

Well, not right now, since I'm at work, but last night:

Memphis Slim: Treat Me Like I Treat You/Country Girl (on the Money label)

B. B. King: Whole Lotta Lovin'/You Upset Me Baby (RPM)

Roosevelt Sykes: The Honeydripper (Victor)

and the real find (last week in a junk store):

Sir Lancelot: Scandal in the Family/Young Girls Today (Mercury) - Killer calypso, with a smoking hot clarinet player - sounds like Evan Christopher 40 years too soon.

[jeffcrom]

I realize that probably very few people are interested in this thread, but I'm having a great time with my new-found 78 RPM fascination.

Johnny Hodges - Let the Zoomers Drool/Searsy's Blues (Mercer)

Don Byas - They Didn't Believe Me/Ted Nash - Wick's Kicks (Mercury)

Mary Lou Williams/Mary Osborne - D.D.T/He's Funny That Way (Continental)

It's an interesting experience - hearing this music the way the artists expected it to be heard at the time. I'm glad better technology came along, but it's interesting.

[Chuck Nessa]

I agree.

[Big Beat Steve]

I realize that probably very few people are interested in this thread, but I'm having a great time with my new-found 78 RPM fascination.

It's an interesting experience - hearing this music the way the artists expected it to be heard at the time. I'm glad better technology came along, but it's interesting.

I believe you are right (especially for what you said about the music being played the way it was meant to be heard way back then, why is why BTW I dont always believe in reissues doctored beyond all limits; I can live quite well with a measure of surface noise) and I AM interested in this thread. In fact it has prompted me to give some of my c. 1000 78s a spin again every now and then, but I don't really believe in listing individual tracks here.

But maybe I'll change my mind, even though I don't (yet?) see the point of rattling off playlists as apparently there is hardly ever a substantial discussion of the tracks mentioned.

[jazztrain]

jeffcrom:

The clarinetist on your Sir Lancelot 78 is most likely by a musician known by various names but who generally recorded on Calypso records as Gregory Felix. I've heard him as a sideman on some Gerald Clark recordings, and your description of his playing is consistent with his sound.

Here's some more background information:

Sir Lancelot often performed with bands let by Gerald Clark.

I found a reference on line linking Sir Lancelot to a recording on Keynote (#548) of "Scandal in the Family" where he is backed by Gerald Clark's Carribean Serenaders. Sir Lancelot earlier sang the tune in the 1943 movie "I Walked With A Zombie."

Link to some information on Sir Lancelot: http://www.calypsoworld.org/noflash/songs-10.htm#1

Link to picture of Keynote 78: http://www.calypsoworld.org/songs/scandal.htm

Other information on line suggests a 1946 recording date.

See, for example, the following from: http://www.robomod.net/pipermail/madness/2...uly/000294.html

>>>

[5] - SHAME AND SCANDAL'S FAMILY TREE

The earliest known version of the song "Shame and Scandal" features in

the RKO-film "I Walked With A Zombie." (Black and white 1943).

Actor Lancelot Pinard Sings "Shame and sorrow for the family" in this

film in a Calypso style version of the tune with differing lyrics to

the new Madness single.

This song tells the story of a woman doing it with her husband's

brother and then she gets cursed and turns into a zombie. It is sung

in a cameo spot in the film, to stir the plot by letting the cat out

of bag on certain family issues and to embarrass the films lead

characters.

In the film script for I Walked With A Zombie this song is mentioned

as "The Fort Holland Calypso Song" after the place of the scene. Co

author Ardel Wray was involved in the script writing, so at first the

song may well have been written for the film exclusively.

This version was released on record by "Sir Lancelot with Gerald

Clark's Calypso Serenaders" (1946) on Keynote as "Scandal In The

Family" again he sings "Shame and sorrow" instead.

It was reissued on Mercury in 1953 and it then triggered covers by the

dozen.

>>>

The quote above appears to mistakenly refer to "Calypso Serenaders" rather than "Carribean Serenaders" unless it was also issued as such (but the picture of the 78 clearly indicates "Carribean."

They Keynote label was sold to Mercury, so there's another clear connection here to your Mercury 78.

Clark's clarinet player was usually Gregory Felix.

Pages 105-106 of the following provide more information on Gregory Felix: http://redalyc.uaemex.mx/redalyc/pdf/377/37719206.pdf

Felix (real name Gregorio Felix Delgado) performed earlier with notable groups including James Reese Europe's Hell-Fighters and Fess Williams and his Royal Flush Orchestra. Although his early recordings were in a jazz vein, he later switched to calypso music, a genre in which he became well known. As explained in the prior link, Gregory recorded at various times under the following names:

- Gregorio Felix Delgado

- Gregorio Felix

- Gregory Felix

- Felix Gregory

Well, not right now, since I'm at work, but last night:

Memphis Slim: Treat Me Like I Treat You/Country Girl (on the Money label)

B. B. King: Whole Lotta Lovin'/You Upset Me Baby (RPM)

Roosevelt Sykes: The Honeydripper (Victor)

and the real find (last week in a junk store):

Sir Lancelot: Scandal in the Family/Young Girls Today (Mercury) - Killer calypso, with a smoking hot clarinet player - sounds like Evan Christopher 40 years too soon.

Edited March 18, 2009 by jazztrain

[jeffcrom]

The clarinetist on your Sir Lancelot 78 is most likely by a musician known by various names but who generally recorded on Calypso records as Gregory Felix. I've heard him as a sideman on some Gerald Clark recordings, and your description of his playing is consistent with his sound.

Thanks so much for this information - it's great to have a name to put with this suberb clarinet playing. And yes, Gerald Clark is credited as the bandleader on the label of my record. I'll be on the lookout for more stuff Felix played on.

I believe you are right (especially for what you said about the music being played the way it was meant to be heard way back then, why is why BTW I dont always believe in reissues doctored beyond all limits; I can live quite well with a measure of surface noise)

I'm with you on that. Since I'm a newbie, pardon me if this has been discussed - I did a quick keyword search and couldn't find anything - but the 2007 Off the Record/Archeophone reissue of the King Oliver Creole Jazz Band sides was a revelation to me. I had been listening to that music for over 30 years, but this has to be the finest reissue of this material ever. And it's such a simple approach - they found the best available 78 sources, determined the correct speed for each record, and found the most favorable needle size for each side. From what I can tell, they did very little filtering or equalizing. Even the Paramounts sound better than I've ever heard. It's like listening to a bunch of excellent 78s on good equipment.

[jeffcrom]

Last night's favorites (with semi-substantial discussion):

Don Byas - Stardust/Slam, Don't Shake Like That (American Record) Nice, but "Stardust" is pretty well worked out in advance - a lot of what he plays here showed up earlier in Jerry Newman's Minton's recordings. Still effective, though, even if it's not really improvising.

Slim Gaillard Trio - Ding Dong Oreenie/Ya Ha Ha (4 Star) Slim's four-piece "trio" is worth hearing both for Zutty Singleton's drumming and for the excellent Dodo Marmarosa solos. I was struck by the variety of note values Dodo uses - his playing wasn't just a string of bebop eighth notes; it had lots of rhythmic variety.

Eddie South - No More Blues/Mama Mockingbird (Bluebird) The real find. Side B is a 1933 recording of a nice Hoagy Carmichael song that I had never even heard of. Some excellent Everett Barksdale guitar - maybe the best I've heard by him, although I haven't heard that much. In the few weeks since I have rediscovered 78s, I've noticed that Victor (and the Bluebird subsidiary) records have the best sound - vibrant and natural. This record is in excellent condition, and you can hear South's bow against the strings, and young Milt Hinton's bass really pops out - and he does a great slapped-triplet break. A very cool little record.

Edited March 20, 2009 by jeffcrom

[jeffcrom]

78s broke my heart twice yesterday. A long-awaited package arrived - Dodo Marmarosa on the Atomic label, playing "Mellow Mood" and "How High the Moon." Unfortunately, it was not packaged well and was broken right down the middle. It just killed me - the surface of the record looked pristine. Sigh....

But then I opened another package, which contained a one-sided 12" Victor Sed Seal: Amelita Galli-Curci singing the Bell Song from Lakme. Jeez, it just broke my heart all over again. Just beautiful.

[Clunky]

Today I got a small number of R&B titles and a few jazz sides by the likes of Ruth Brown (Atlantic) , Ivory Joe Hunter (King), Jazz Gillum (RCA), Cousin Joe (Savoy) all in near mint condition and sounding very nice. Fascinating slice of American music, these 40s indie labels did great work.

Oh the jazz sides were a Hank D'Amico (National) - one side chamber jazz the the other a basic blues vocal and a lovely Fletcher Henderson/ Louis Armstrong side ( a 40's Decca reissue- very quiet for a 78 ).

[Clunky]

78s broke my heart twice yesterday. A long-awaited package arrived - Dodo Marmarosa on the Atomic label, playing "Mellow Mood" and "How High the Moon." Unfortunately, it was not packaged well and was broken right down the middle. It just killed me - the surface of the record looked pristine. Sigh....

But then I opened another package, which contained a one-sided 12" Victor Sed Seal: Amelita Galli-Curci singing the Bell Song from Lakme. Jeez, it just broke my heart all over again. Just beautiful.

The only Atomic sides I've come across have been well worn, not sure how good these were in first place

[Big Beat Steve]

I don't know ...

My copies of Atomic 202 (Strictly For Kicks/Wolf Song by Lyle Griffin's Strictly For Kicks Music including a.o. Herbie Haymer on ts) and Atomic 230 (David Allyn singing Snowbound/Penthouse Serenade, with Lucky Thompson a.o. in the backing band) have fairly little wear and pretty decent shine (maybe a visual VG+) and play with only a moderate amount of background hiss and crackle. I've heard 78s on major labels that sounded worse with the same amount of visual wear.

So I guess they probably were not the very best and most silent indie pressings but a lot better than many of those "recycling shellac" noise platters often mentioned in connection with 40s indie labels.

But a lot depends on the equipment you play those 78s on today. I've played them on two different Dual turntables (none of them high-end) and the background hiss is much more pronounced on one (the older one) of them. But that's not specific to those Atomic records.

[jeffcrom]

The Complete Bluebird Recordings of Les Hite and his Orchestra. Not exactly a box set - two 78s from 1941. Although Lionel Hampton, Lawrence Brown, Dizzy Gillespie, and T-Bone Walker all passed through this band, the biggest name on these four sides is Britt Woodman. But I sure am enjoying them. No geniuses here, just solid, swinging arranging and playing. I'm thankful for the great big bands like Ellington, Basie, Gil Evans, but I just love these journeyman bands that fought it out in the trenches year after year, swinging their butts off.

[kh1958]

Back in the early days of the Mingus Big Band performing at the Time Cafe (early to mid-1990s), I had occasion to see and hear Britt Woodman a few times in the trombone section--it was quite a thrill--he had a beautiful sound.

[jeffcrom]

Back in the early days of the Mingus Big Band performing at the Time Cafe (early to mid-1990s), I had occasion to see and hear Britt Woodman a few times in the trombone section--it was quite a thrill--he had a beautiful sound.

The best solo on the four Les Hite Bluebird sides is eight measures of Britt's trombone on "Board Meeting." He plays the bridge of what is otherwise a tenor sax chorus. I swear that the tenorman (Que Martin, maybe?) plays more thoughtfully when he comes back in after Britt's interlude.

[jeffcrom]

I brought back a stack of 78s from my recent trip to New Orleans. Three I keep going back to are mid-to-late 40's issues on the Jump label: one by Joe Rushton's California Ramblers and two by a trio of Eddie Miller, George Van Eps, and pianist Stan Wrightsman. Rushton's bass sax sounds great - something like Adrian Rollini, maybe fierier but not quite as thoughtful. The trio sides are wonderful. I've always liked Eddie Miller, and on three of the sides Van Eps plays unaccompanied solos that are jaw-dropping to a non-guitarist like me.

[jeffcrom]

On the "music vs. sound quality" issue, I definitely think the music is more important. But... in recent years I've come to appreciate fine sounding records more and more. I recently picked up three 78s that I already had on LP or CD: "Before Long" by Louis Armstrong, "Ghost of a Chance" by Cab Calloway/Chu Berry, and "Mama's Gone, Goodbye" by Piron's New Orleans Orchestra. All are in excellent condition, and on all of these, the sound just leaped out of the speakers. There was a directness that I just don't get from the CDs - the music just breathes. Beautiful.

[jazztrain]

It's hard to explain how the music sounds from 78s if you haven't experienced it. There's a certain presence and fullness as well as a "you are there" quality to it. And, in many cases, there are fine details that just don't seem to make it to LP or CD reissues.

On the "music vs. sound quality" issue, I definitely think the music is more important. But... in recent years I've come to appreciate fine sounding records more and more. I recently picked up three 78s that I already had on LP or CD: "Before Long" by Louis Armstrong, "Ghost of a Chance" by Cab Calloway/Chu Berry, and "Mama's Gone, Goodbye" by Piron's New Orleans Orchestra. All are in excellent condition, and on all of these, the sound just leaped out of the speakers. There was a directness that I just don't get from the CDs - the music just breathes. Beautiful.

[jeffcrom]

It's hard to explain how the music sounds from 78s if you haven't experienced it. There's a certain presence and fullness as well as a "you are there" quality to it. And, in many cases, there are fine details that just don't seem to make it to LP or CD reissues.

You put it better than I could. I can hear Louis Armstrong's breath and the sound of Eddie South's bow against the strings.