Soulstation1 Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 i wish he'd just go away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Not that I condone illegal activities, but I'd never rat out fellow ball players. Canseco is a tool bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Did anyone see ESPN.com's fact checking analysis of his tome? There actually aren't a lot of facts to check, but they had about half a dozen which were easily demonstrated to be completely false. One of them related to his claim that he got to second base in an exhibition game in 2001, took one look at Brett Boone and knew he had been juicing, and claimed that Boone all but acknowledged that "fact." Yet the fact is that in the entire exhibition season, Canseco never reached second base and never even passed second base when Boone was in the game. It was a complet fabrication. Canseco is a joke ... but that doesn't mean that there weren't other steroid users. Its just impossible to believe anything he says because its so obvious he's got another agenda: making money, and to the greatest extent possible, crapping on Mark McGuire's reputation. But if you want to talk about another joke, I nominate Barry Bonds and particularly that press conference he gave on Tuesday. What a gigantic, juiced up pile of crap that man is. I don't think it will happen, but I hope that Hank Aaron takes a stand against cheaters and refuses to attend when Bonds is equalling and breaking his record. As far as I am concerned, the home run champ will always be Hank Aaron ... unless A-Rod or Pujols or someone honest breaks it. But Barry Bonds is a lying pile of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 But if you want to talk about another joke, I nominate Barry Bonds and particularly that press conference he gave on Tuesday. What a gigantic, juiced up pile of crap that man is. I don't think it will happen, but I hope that Hank Aaron takes a stand against cheaters and refuses to attend when Bonds is equalling and breaking his record. As far as I am concerned, the home run champ will always be Hank Aaron ... unless A-Rod or Pujols or someone honest breaks it. But Barry Bonds is a lying pile of shit. A-frickin'-men! Him and Canseco both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 But if you want to talk about another joke, I nominate Barry Bonds and particularly that press conference he gave on Tuesday. What a gigantic, juiced up pile of crap that man is. I don't think it will happen, but I hope that Hank Aaron takes a stand against cheaters and refuses to attend when Bonds is equalling and breaking his record. As far as I am concerned, the home run champ will always be Hank Aaron ... unless A-Rod or Pujols or someone honest breaks it. But Barry Bonds is a lying pile of shit. A-frickin'-men! Him and Canseco both. ...I'll third it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Did anyone see the 60 Minutes interview? His eyes were all bloodshot. It looked like he was high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Did anyone see the 60 Minutes interview? His eyes were all bloodshot. It looked like he was high. My thoughts exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 I agree 100%. Conseco has always been a dumbass, Bonds is not too far behind. That Bonds press conference yesterday was a complete joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 I agree 100%. Conseco has always been a dumbass, Bonds is not too far behind. That Bonds press conference yesterday was a complete joke. As well as an insult to the game.....which is what Bonds is, now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgraham333 Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Professional athletes (any sport) will never get my respect until the players associations agree to a permanent ban for any player who tests positive for illegal substances. Until that happens and it is legitimately enforced there will be drug problems. Of course it will never happen because there is no economic incentive to make it happen. In fact, there is quite the opposite force at work here. Teams and players alike are at risk at losing serious amounts of cash. So I guess I'll just sit here and let the shockwaves ripple throughout the sports world that my withholding of respect will undoubtedly cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 I see where you're coming from, Matt, but I think the testing process that's now in place is strict enough. And over time, the changes that MLB put into the minor leagues (with much more stringent testing and much closer to a zero-tolerance policy) is going, admittedly after probably another ten years or more, a clean game. No one will make it through the minors as a steroid user, and the testing is strict enough in MLB that I don't think players could adopt to using it too readily. Granted, there are masking agents and all that, so someone driven to cheat may get away with it for a while. But I do think MLB is headed in the right direction. It will be real interesting to see how many positive results there are in the coming season, because it does now result in an immediate penalty. Meanwhile, did anyone catch Sports Center this morning? I saw the tail end of a report about a boxer who abused steroids in order to bulk up, and ultimately lost both legs due to blood clots caused by the steroid use. God how I wish that would happen to Canseco. That right there would be the end of his "steroids are great, used properly" spiel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted February 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 i think espn showed the boxer's story instead of a piece on canseco, by mistake after coming back on air, they apologized for the error... how could they make a mistake like that???? is my boy in the espn control room ss1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlitweiler Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 On the other hand, for half a season at the end of his playing career Canseco came out of nowhere and became a useful DH for the Chicago White Sox. gratefully, JL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 I am sad to say back in the day, Canseco was my favorite player!!! I loved the speed/power combo....That homer in the playoffs against Toronto was incredible, I remember Tony Kubek saying how he was in awe of it. Just steroid power. Asswipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 On the other hand, for half a season at the end of his playing career Canseco came out of nowhere and became a useful DH for the Chicago White Sox. gratefully, JL How does this South Side baseballic affiliation affect your relationship with the other members of the mafia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave James Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 While I strongly believe that Canseco is only out for himself and that he should be ashamed for ratting people out or, worse, making up stories, I still think that anything, including his book, that puts baseball under the scope with regard to drug abuse is not entirely a bad thing. These guys have been in denial for so long that it's become a way of life. And even with the new testing program, my understanding is that its not inclusive of human growth hormone. That right there tells me the door is still open to what amounts to sanctioned abuse. I'm just wondering how baseball is going to handle Bonds when he breaks Aaron's record. Given their head-in-the-sand history, Selig and his crew will probably act like steriods never entered into the equation. That would be a shame, but on the other hand, I'm not sure if there's a good way to do this. You can't ignore it and you ought not celebrate it. Talk about a rock and a hard place. At the end of the day, though, I hold with those who hope that Aaron chooses to ignore this event in its entirety. His absence alone would speak volumes. Up over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 I wouldn't mind seeing that myself, but I can't see Aaron doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 I think professional sports are the modern equivalent of gladiatorial events, with supersized freaks of nature performing bizarre unnatural acts to entertain the masses. They also (unlike gladiators) get paid a hell of a lot to do so. But given how unnatural professional sports is, what does it really matter if they use steroids? People want to see bigger and faster and stronger. It's hypocritical to give the money to people who fulfill those needs but then cry out "oh, but you have to be natural while doing it." And really, any enjoyment comes from the individual game. There is too much fascination with records and championships. But I'm a freak when it comes to this stuff. That said, I still like pro baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 It's hypocritical to give the money to people who fulfill those needs but then cry out "oh, but you have to be natural while doing it." Why is that hypocritical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Because implicit in the large salaries is that they are in compensation for these athletes being the biggest, strongest, fastest. Giambi is perhaps the easiest example. He made big big money after pumping up his body & his stats. then he stopped suing and became a mortal. The fans now complain about him, and the Yankees are looking for ways to get out of their contract with him. In other words, his popularity and rewards came as a direct result for his taking steroids. If the Yankees or their fans were to now complain about Giambi's steroid taking, or the fact that his stats have dropped since he stopped, then I believe that is a hypocritical response, especially if they also condemn the steroid taking. I don't hold Giambi innocent either. he was essentially duplicitous, if there is a provision in his contract that he wouldn't use steroids. If there is no such clause, then I bet they all had a "wink wink nudge nudge" understanding. I could be excessively cynical, and it is a topic worth discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceW Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Questions for the great philosophers.... How do you measure what part of a home run is natural power and what part is steroid power???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 I think Plato wrote to that point, but I can't remember in which book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajerzy Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 I believe Aaron said he will not attend a game if and when Bonds breaks his record. Conseco's book is not 100% lies...there's shreds of truth in there.....I don't like the guy personally, but he was a talent....I know someone in the Braves organization who knows minor leaguers who were suspended for steroids........and I believe there are lots of players in MLB who did use them- and still do. Lenny Dykstra c.1993- look at him compared to 1992 and 1991. Brady Anderson hitting 50 home runs?? Remember when 50 home runs was a great achievement? George Foster in the 70s and Cecil Fielder? No one blinks anymore when someone hits 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Remember when 50 home runs was a great achievement? George Foster in the 70s and Cecil Fielder? No one blinks anymore when someone hits 50. No one hit fifty in the last two years. As to the philosophical question asked above, it can be measured by the players who used to hit long outs and then suddenly hit loads of dingers. Those loads of dingers is the exact measurement of how much more is steroids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajerzy Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Dan- That's correct- I believe public awareness within the last 2 years has increased the scrutiny and players are aware of that. Now Jon Miller had an interesting comment in that overall, more home runs have been hit within the last few years but the league leaders numbers have decreased. I'm not sure if this is correct. Those bloated numbers a few years ago are probably a thing of the past. Correct- steroids doesn't help a darn if you can't make contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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