AllenLowe Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 wait - Von Freeman is a lesbian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Remember the "In a Coffee House" routine from the Mel Brooks-Carl Reiner "2,000-Year-Old Man" album, where Reiner's roving reporter approaches one of the more flamboyant coffee house denizens: Reiner: "Are you an actor?" Brooks: "Yes, I'm lesbian." (Laughter) Reiner: "I think you mean 'thesbian.'" Brooks: "Oh -- I'll never make that mistake again." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlitweiler Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I've heard Von play Avalon. Sorry I couldn't hear him play it again on Sunday. / Kalaparush and the Light tonight at the Cultural Center. Re Dave Douglas last night, see tomorrow's Sun-Times. Usually I just admire his playing, this was one of the times I quite liked it. Lester Bowie would have approved of everything except maybe the Bowie tribute piece. / Henry Grimes w/Marshall Allen, Fred Anderson, Avreeayl Ra at Hot House on March 11-12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Great stories, guys - wish I could have been there with you too. I've only recently been "into" Mr. Freeman - care to some of you on this board - so I can only hope for a west coast gig one of these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Skid Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 What a wonderful evening, I'll never forget it! I now have a terrific signed photo of Von -- big thanks to Mark (sheldonm) for giving me one of his awesome photographs! One story that wasn't mentioned yet was the 11-year old kid sitting next to me, who Von talked with quite a bit during the show. Von gave him a kind of "jazz-101" talk about the evolution of jazz saxophone playing: the styles and contributions of Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins, and Charlie Parker, and what they did that made them each so special. He explained how it's all about "telling a story" (giving musical examples), and not just running the chords. And oh, what stories did he tell! What Von may have not realized is that he was educating many of us "older" folks in the audience, too. While guys like Chuck and Larry have lived and loved this music for many years, I suspect that many of us learned some new things that evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 What Von may have not realized is that he was educating many of us "older" folks in the audience, too. While guys like Chuck and Larry have lived and loved this music for many years, I suspect that many of us learned some new things that evening. Thanks for bringing this up. I'm sure all us old farts relearned a few lessons from Von's demonstrations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzkrow Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 GREAT SHOTS-as usual, Mark! I'm so itchin' to get a chance to visit the Jazz Record Mart/Dem Bastards at the Groove..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedR Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 This thread is another great example of how invaluable this board is. I have yet to hear Mr. Freeman.....but, when I do, I'll be better for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Von's brief (maybe two bars each) demonstration of the difference between "running the chords" and "making a statement" was so vivid that the "statement" part almost brought tears to my eyes. It was kind of mysterious too, because there are moments in a good Von solo where you'll hear passages that sound pretty much like his "running the chords" demo, but they don't sound at all like filler in that context (because they aren't...there). Likewise, the ease with which Von came up with that storytelling "statement" demo might raise doubts, just because of that ease, about Von's and the listener's relationship to those statements -- that is, are we being manipulated a bit by the ready presence of what are in effect "shapes of feeling" that might not really be inhabited by their maker to the degree we (or at least I) feel they are? Again, I don't think so -- when Von handles/finds/refinds those shapes in the course of a solo, it's an entirely different matter. An analogy that comes to mind: Someone asks you what the corner of 63rd St. and Cottage Grove Ave. is like and you haul out a map and some photos, maybe a sociological study of that part of Chicago's South Side. Second answer: You remember all the times you yourself have been there, all the things you've done there and seen there, and you sum that up. Final answer: You add answer one to answer two, but you're also at the corner of 63rd St. and Cottage Grove Ave. right now -- alive, moving, and feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Damn, Larry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachel Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Ditto what B3-er said.... what a picture you've painted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 What's at the corner of 63rd St. and Cottage Grove Ave, anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 McKie's Disc Jockey Lounge? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Double ditto to what Jim and Rachel just said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted March 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Von's brief (maybe two bars each) demonstration of the difference between "running the chords" and "making a statement" was so vivid that the "statement" part almost brought tears to my eyes. It was kind of mysterious too, because there are moments in a good Von solo where you'll hear passages that sound pretty much like his "running the chords" demo, but they don't sound at all like filler in that context (because they aren't...there). Likewise, the ease with which Von came up with that storytelling "statement" demo might raise doubts, just because of that ease, about Von's and the listener's relationship to those statements -- that is, are we being manipulated a bit by the ready presence of what are in effect "shapes of feeling" that might not really be inhabited by their maker to the degree we (or at least I) feel they are? Again, I don't think so -- when Von handles/finds/refinds those shapes in the course of a solo, it's an entirely different matter. An analogy that comes to mind: Someone asks you what the corner of 63rd St. and Cottage Grove Ave. is like and you haul out a map and some photos, maybe a sociological study of that part of Chicago's South Side. Second answer: You remember all the times you yourself have been there, all the things you've done there and seen there, and you sum that up. Final answer: You add answer one to answer two, but you're also at the corner of 63rd St. and Cottage Grove Ave. right now -- alive, moving, and feeling. ....what he said! B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 (edited) I heard Freeman only once in person, sometime in the 1980s at the CHicago jazz fest - wow - I think of him in Tatumesque terms. Such a complete command of harmony and, for all the idea of storytelling, told in such an unconventional way. Of course, his pitch is another thing that adds tonal ambiguity (in much the same way that latter day Jackie MacLean's does). It's a very brilliant adaptation of bebop, as I see it - beboppers had a way of circling the basic harmony and a few saxophonists (like Freeman and, in a much different way, Eric Dolphy) found a method of using the chords as particularly oblique signposts - I'm not surprised at Gitler's lack of understanding but am a bit by Dan Morgenstern's - Edited March 2, 2005 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted March 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 An analogy that comes to mind: Someone asks you what the corner of 63rd St. and Cottage Grove Ave. is like and you haul out a map and some photos, maybe a sociological study of that part of Chicago's South Side. Second answer: You remember all the times you yourself have been there, all the things you've done there and seen there, and you sum that up. Final answer: You add answer one to answer two, but you're also at the corner of 63rd St. and Cottage Grove Ave. right now -- alive, moving, and feeling. Larry, I'd have answer #1; I'd be the guy whipping out the maps and photos!!! Thank god we have the guys like you that can provide answer #2! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted March 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 GREAT SHOTS-as usual, Mark! I'm so itchin' to get a chance to visit the Jazz Record Mart/Dem Bastards at the Groove..... Jeff, Good to see you back on-line; hope all is well! I hope you can get out this way this summer also! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Yes, McKie's was a few doors south on Cottage Grove, but that corner was a teeming urban hum in general -- the Trianon Ballroom was one block north on Cottage Grove, and I can only imagine how intense the scene was around there in its heyday. (I knew it some in the mid-1960s, when it was still intense but intense in other ways too -- Blackstone Rangers time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 I kind of like "urban hum" but meant to type "urban hub." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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