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Mingus at Birdland 1961-62

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Hey Big Wheel. What format are the Mingus files on easytree? Are they MP3s or MP3 sourced?

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They are in FLAC format. Here is the verbatim description:

Source: FM > acetates > reels [2-track, 7½ ips] > Soundforge [eq] > CDR > CDR > EAC > FLAC(7)

Notes: Master (all 7 broadcasts), FM announcements, some loud hiss, A-/B+

Time: 185:19

FLAC: 1.19 GB

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There's a delightful Mingus "flood" going on the past few days on easytree - it's worth a look. ;)

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i'm bit-torrent challenged. are there any kind souls out there willing to send the flood my way? i have much to offer in return via trade. please pm me.

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I recently bought the Solar 3-CD collection of these recordings.  Pure listening pleasure.  Fidelity is great, considering the source, and the music is amazing: think of live versions of Oh Yeah, Tijuana Moods, and others of that era.  The band is on fire.  I consider this music more vital than the stuff recorded on the European tours.

https://mingus.onttonen.info/birdland.html

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5 minutes ago, mjzee said:

I recently bought the Solar 3-CD collection of these recordings.  Pure listening pleasure.  Fidelity is great, considering the source, and the music is amazing: think of live versions of Oh Yeah, Tijuana Moods, and others of that era.  The band is on fire.  I consider this music more vital than the stuff recorded on the European tours.

https://mingus.onttonen.info/birdland.html

Isn’t Solar Records one of those needle drop labels?

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12 minutes ago, Brad said:

Isn’t Solar Records one of those needle drop labels?

Let's put it this way: I didn't link to it.

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46 minutes ago, Brad said:

Isn’t Solar Records one of those needle drop labels?

They're Andorran PD, but pretty high quality for that sort of thing.  I like them.  I have a half dozen of their releases, and none are needle drops.  And this MIngus is a great set.

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Do they add value to the packaging, or is it one of their usual oh, here's the stuff on CDs that we sold you, and a picture or three and a few generic words? I bought their Rollins Village Gate thing just because, and let's just say...I got nothing that I didn't already have except a little bit of cardboard.

This would be a great set to do the old Uptown way, if anybody today is going to do things that way. Although, after what Sue Mingus did to Uptown, good luck on that. But geez, just the roster of piano players, that's all kinds of an essay right there!

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2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Do they add value to the packaging, or is it one of their usual oh, here's the stuff on CDs that we sold you, and a picture or three and a few generic words? I bought their Rollins Village Gate thing just because, and let's just say...I got nothing that I didn't already have except a little bit of cardboard.

Reading the booklet was an interesting experience.  The writing (by Art Masarini) wasn't horrible.  The writer seemed to have a command of the English language; perhaps that's a low bar, but he cleared it.  He also seemed to be familiar with Mingus's music; again, an unexceptional trait, except that many of these booklets sound like they were written by a bot.  But I was struck by how much more a good writer brings: not just facts strung in an intelligible way, but verve, drive...a good writer makes the reading experience interesting.  Masarini doesn't have that.  But he said some things that did add to my perspective, by showing where the Birdland performances fit into the Mingus timeline.  For example, he points out that the first performance here of Ecclusiastics (from October 21, 1961) was before it was recorded for Oh Yeah on November 6, with almost the same band (Booker Ervin replaced Yusef Lateef on the studio date).  Another example: the performance here of "Oh Lord, Don't Let Them Drop That Atomic Bomb On Me" is the only other recording of that tune.  Of course, I don't have 100% confidence that what he's reporting is correct, but it sounds plausible.

All the discographical data in the booklet can be found at the link https://mingus.onttonen.info/birdland.html; the odds are good that this is the source for the booklet's data.  The odds, IMHO, are also good that the easytree reference earlier in this thread is the source for this music.  There are some good photos in the booklet, especially the cover shot, but many of the inside photos of the musicians are very generic, and could range from anywhere in their careers.

Having said all that, the music is the reason this package, again IMHO, is essential.  It's fascinating to hear Mingus's introduction to Ysabel's Table Dance (recorded May 12, 1962): "This piece was recorded on Victor Records seven years ago, but it's been released this June."  So he's playing this older tune to promote the newly-released album!

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3 hours ago, mjzee said:

There are some good photos in the booklet, especially the cover shot, but many of the inside photos of the musicians are very generic, and could range from anywhere in their careers.

Something that the above-mentioned Uptown label (said to set standards) can be faulted for too. On the occasional release by them the booklet (including the texts) is a HUGE letdown compared to their usual (excellent) standard. Not to mention that even the "big ones" don't always go overboard in their pictorial efforts for their reissues either.

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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Is this you are referencing really a Solar Records release? I haven't seen any information on that. There's the 1990 very limited LP release on the Not On Label, then the Rare Recordings Live (RRL) label 3 cd release, and then the HiHat label release (which is purported to be a clone of the RRL). That's all I've ever seen as physical releases. 

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Rightly or wrongly, I lump Solar & Hi-Hat together as partners working the same game in the same alley.

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11 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Rightly or wrongly, I lump Solar & Hi-Hat together as partners working the same game in the same alley.

Same country, same genre, but different approaches.  Solar does some very thorough and sensible collating of historical material.  

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My question is and still is, what is the source of their recordings?

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1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

Is this you are referencing really a Solar Records release? I haven't seen any information on that. There's the 1990 very limited LP release on the Not On Label, then the Rare Recordings Live (RRL) label 3 cd release, and then the HiHat label release (which is purported to be a clone of the RRL). That's all I've ever seen as physical releases. 

Here is info on the Solar release, but it may be the same as the others.

https://www.jazzweekly.com/2017/04/historical-album-of-the-year-charles-mingus-the-jazz-workshop-all-stars-the-complete-1961-1962-birdland-broadcasts/

https://www.jazzmessengers.com/en/72140/charles-mingus/the-complete-1961-62-birdland-broadcasts

 

 

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2 minutes ago, felser said:

Solar does some very thorough and sensible collating of historical material.  

Well, so do I, and so do other collectors. And we do it without their "help".

Just sayin'...

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Here’s a previous discussion on Solar.

 

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Well, so do I, and so do other collectors. And we do it without their "help".

Just sayin'...

I hear ya.  I think the philosophy on the Andorran releases has been briefly discussed once or twice in the past on the Forum...  

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3 hours ago, jazzbo said:

Is this you are referencing really a Solar Records release? I haven't seen any information on that. There's the 1990 very limited LP release on the Not On Label, then the Rare Recordings Live (RRL) label 3 cd release, and then the HiHat label release (which is purported to be a clone of the RRL). That's all I've ever seen as physical releases. 

61-kP0879LL.jpg81bcMG6p1xL._SL1200_.jpg

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Well, so do I, and so do other collectors. And we do it without their "help".

Just sayin'...

It helped me; I would not have located this music otherwise.  Also, it's hard to debate the ethics of this release considering that the original source was Boris Rose recording them off the air.  Mingus and his estate never received a dime from either Rose or Solar.  Neither has Sonny Rollins received royalties from that Village Gate box (which is also fascinating and essential).

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Okay this is the same cover as the RLR which is supposedly the source for the HiHat, and I suspect the source for the RLR is the LP set from 1990. Thanks for the links on the Solar.

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On 1/17/2020 at 10:08 AM, mjzee said:

61-kP0879LL.jpg81bcMG6p1xL._SL1200_.jpg

It helped me; I would not have located this music otherwise.  Also, it's hard to debate the ethics of this release considering that the original source was Boris Rose recording them off the air.  Mingus and his estate never received a dime from either Rose or Solar.  Neither has Sonny Rollins received royalties from that Village Gate box (which is also fascinating and essential).

I recall that Sonny Rollins was selling downloads of some Harkit bootlegs.

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28 minutes ago, Ken Dryden said:

I recall that Sonny Rollins was selling downloads of some Harkit bootlegs.

At one point he had downloads available on his website.  I bought quite a few of them, and thought it was an elegant solution.

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I have collected broadcasts of live shows for a long time and have frequently offered copies to artists whom I have interviewed. Dick Hyman enjoyed a BBC show of his 1998 Brecon Jazz Festival concert enough that he has been trying to find the source tape. Sadly I only had one of the two broadcasts and one song was joined in progress.

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On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 9:08 AM, mjzee said:

...it's hard to debate the ethics of this release considering that the original source was Boris Rose recording them off the air.  Mingus and his estate never received a dime from either Rose or Solar.  Neither has Sonny Rollins received royalties from that Village Gate box (which is also fascinating and essential).

I don't see anything "hard" about it at all. The facts speak for themselves. There is no argument, no debate to be had, just decisions that each consumer will make on a case-by-case basis.

I do think that the Rollins/Gate thing is perhaps more odious than anything Boris Rose-related though. Those tapes were actually stolen property, stolen from whatever clueless idiots currently run what used to be RCA. It was a noble theft, no doubt, but people should be aware that the stolen material was being shared - for free - in certain collectors' circles before being brought to market, at which point the only value added was having the files burnt to CD and then by having some kind of paper/cardboard to put them in.

Make no mistake - these are not noble enterprises, these Solar/Harkit/Etc outfits. Useful in a certain cheap kind of way for certain situations where laziness implores its demands to be met, but never noble.

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