BFT #24 - Discussion (Disc 1)

[Tom Storer]

Before jumping in with my guesses for CD1, let me say this is one of the best BFTs yet! Flurin, I have to congratulate you on your excellent taste. Definitely a keeper, both discs. Now here goes:

1. Ahhh... Ben Webster, 1950's or 60's. Pure lyricism--so sensual and yet so emotionally pure. In his ballad playing, Webster was always wistfully and romantically tender, but it sounds like it came from experience rather than idealism. (All the raunchy sex he expressed when he was swinging out.) Beautiful start!

2, 3 & 4. Early tenors. Good, spunky stuff. Great playing, especially 3 & 4. If I were you, I'd certainly have put Coleman Hawkins in a series of early tenor players... I think it's him on 4. But he changed so much in his early years that that could also be him on 2 or 3! Or both! Or maybe I'm just getting too clever for my own good.

5. The vibes and era made me think inevitably of Hamp but I'm not convinced of it. The tune is very familiar but I can't place it. Love the screamy tenor sax, the muted trumpet. The rhythm section is very heavy-handed; perhaps this was recorded in Europe? <= typical anti-European prejudice, shocking

6. Moving up the time line. Nice hard bop quintet. Now here's how to do that relentless rhythm thing that the guy in number 5 was doing so badly--this drummer varies it nicely and when he's pushing, he still has that soft touch. Not sure if this is a bunch of originals or later adepts of the style, but they've got real savoir-faire. A Rolls Royce engine here. Love it!

7. I always get Helen Merrill and Anita O'Day mixed up, and differentiate them by thinking of the thing Anita O'Day did with Gene Krupa and Roy Eldridge, "Drop Me Off Uptown." That's not this one, so this one must be Helen Merrill. Serious trio, and she's not flinching, always the sign of a fine jazz singer. This tune has opened my ears--I've got to check out Helen Merrill! Short but sweet, a superb performance.

8. Can't think of the name of this well-known composition. I must say this guy does a more than honorable job of playing jazz on the squeeze-box. This is the Toots Thielemans of the accordion. No idea who it is. I could just about get over my lack of enthusiasm for the accordion if it were played like this all the time. Bravo to whoever it is!

9. An Ornette tune, couldn't tell you the title, played like a straight bop piece. Some don't like that approach, but I think Ornette's tunes are strong enough to be given a variety of treatments. Nicely done here - the tenor has a sound of his own, with a particular little yippy thing he does, which I haven't heard before. Love the drum part, too.

10. I have an idea I have inside knowledge on what this is, so I'm keeping mum.

11. Kind of cheesy, but in a sympathetic way. What a weird sax sound! Some electric treatment--didn't Sonny Stitt and Eddie Harris dabble in that? Good time music, kind of corny but fun.

12. Can't say I really like this. The alto closely approaches some kind of double-reed, Middle Eastern sound, to the extent that I wondered if it really was one. Not a bad sound, but the performance drags on without every moving anywhere. A good and serious attempt at something different but I think it fell kind of flat.

13. A little too po-faced for my taste. Virtuosically played but I hear it as entirely

cerebral, and lacking in the playfulness that can redeem entirely cerebral music. The Haden-like bass gives it some body and center when it comes in, but even so, I found the whole exercise rather sterile.

14. I get the idea this trio probably did other things I would like better. They sound very familiar but I can't place them. Despite their simpatico cohesion as a trio, this particular piece is a tad plodding for me. A brighter tempo might have made me like it more. Very nice players, but the vehicle doesn't do it for me.

15. Gorgeously played but for me it doesn't often get beyond the glossy beauty of a high-class photo shoot. They're all handsome and beautiful, real pros, striking poses that seem sincerely felt and spontaneous but are really just terribly well-practiced. Could this be Tom Varner? It's nice to hear such a good french horn player - his solo is the high point, and the others, in my humble opinion, are just being articulate and saying nothing. Top musicians but I feel they're navel-gazing here.

16. Just last week on TV I saw Meshell Ndegeocello's band, and it was an awful lot like this: "free" horn players allowed to do their thing in sections when the rhythm dropped out, then solos over simple, insistent bass guitar lines. For the hell of it, I'll guess that's who this is.

17. Someone in the Frisell school. Maybe a Frisell precursor? Not my cup of tea, but they're quite good at what they do. If this is Frisell, maybe I'll have to give him some more listens.

18. Ha! Very good closer to CD1! What a charmer that man was. Can you imagine him delivering lines like that night after night around the world, no matter what bunch of philistines or crowned heads was listening?

[king ubu]

Tom & Nate, thanks a lot for some interesting posts! Nate, glad the discs finally arrived (have heard you had problems with disc 2, but I'm still only catching up with this thread first.

2, 3 & 4. Early tenors. Good, spunky stuff. Great playing, especially 3 & 4. If I were you, I'd certainly have put Coleman Hawkins in a series of early tenor players... I think it's him on 4. But he changed so much in his early years that that could also be him on 2 or 3! Or both! Or maybe I'm just getting too clever for my own good.

Not too clever, no sir! Your ears don't betray you!

... perhaps this was recorded in Europe? <= typical anti-European prejudice, shocking

6. Moving up the time line. Nice hard bop quintet. Now here's how to do that relentless rhythm thing that the guy in number 5 was doing so badly--this drummer varies it nicely and when he's pushing, he still has that soft touch. Not sure if this is a bunch of originals or later adepts of the style, but they've got real savoir-faire. A Rolls Royce engine here. Love it!

I like that Rolls Royce engine metaphor! The drummer is the biggest name in here, I still wonder no one has tried to drop some names... mikeweil? Care to give a shot?

10. I have an idea I have inside knowledge on what this is, so I'm keeping mum.

You have? But not from me, I think! The tune and the pianist have been nailed, but the leader not yet...

12. Can't say I really like this. The alto closely approaches some kind of double-reed, Middle Eastern sound, to the extent that I wondered if it really was one. Not a bad sound, but the performance drags on without every moving anywhere. A good and serious attempt at something different but I think it fell kind of flat.

13. A little too po-faced for my taste. Virtuosically played but I hear it as entirely

cerebral, and lacking in the playfulness that can redeem entirely cerebral music. The Haden-like bass gives it some body and center when it comes in, but even so, I found the whole exercise rather sterile.

The two tracks that got the most flac...

14. I get the idea this trio probably did other things I would like better. They sound very familiar but I can't place them. Despite their simpatico cohesion as a trio, this particular piece is a tad plodding for me. A brighter tempo might have made me like it more. Very nice players, but the vehicle doesn't do it for me.

Dig Sangrey's post on this one... he's right on the money B-)

15. Gorgeously played but for me it doesn't often get beyond the glossy beauty of a high-class photo shoot. They're all handsome and beautiful, real pros, striking poses that seem sincerely felt and spontaneous but are really just terribly well-practiced. Could this be Tom Varner? It's nice to hear such a good french horn player - his solo is the high point, and the others, in my humble opinion, are just being articulate and saying nothing. Top musicians but I feel they're navel-gazing here.

As I said before: yes, these are all pros, indeed, and the band is a mix of working group (or at least project) and "stars" added for the occasion, so... the french horn player is not Tom Varner

16. Just last week on TV I saw Meshell Ndegeocello's band, and it was an awful lot like this: "free" horn players allowed to do their thing in sections when the rhythm dropped out, then solos over simple, insistent bass guitar lines. For the hell of it, I'll guess that's who this is.

Nope, and no free horn players here... all arranged, except for the solos.

Thanks again, Tom!

[king ubu]

5: Oh good, some decent sound. 1940s swing-to-bop tune over rhythm changes, reminds me of “Knockout” on George Wallington’s Savoy disc. Somehow I’m not getting a lot out of this one though it’s probably historically interesting. Nice suspension at the end of the vibes solo, & wow, some snapping-turtle electric guitar. Some harmonically nice things in the piano solo. Not a great track, but an interesting track.

I guess all you guys listened to this one more attentively than I ever did... it just had to be placed here, for thematic reasons...

6: OK, modern times. Demure call & reponse bluesy tune. The altoist knows his Jackie McLean & James Spaulding & other Blue Note altoists, otherwise I haven’t a clue who it is. & the trumpeter has also listened to a stack of Blue Notes.  I’d be surprised if this was actually old veterans, it sounds like young guys playing old to me. The pianist maybe a little more interesting than the horns. Gimme the old surface crackle.....

No youngsters, though they came a wee bit later than the original... today they're all old veterans. That alto I think is quite better than some of the rather weak altoists BN hired in the Fifties (those one-session guys..., not Jackie Mac or Spaulding).

7: This is a little livelier. Aha, Helen Merrill. Not typical of her work, at least the stuff I’ve heard! Hm, early Bill Evans on the piano. The drummer I should know too, but can’t quite put my finger on it. Must be one of the Mercury dates.

Not Evans, and nope, I guess none of those among you who said they should know the drummer do actually know him

8: I recently reviewed a rather nice hardbop accordian disc by Pino di Modugno, tell me if you'd like my copy Flurin.  No idea who this is.  The studio acoustic seems a little old-fashioned, I'd thoguht this was a recent track originally but just the studio sound makes me think 1960s.  Other than the instrsumentation there's nothing especially remarkable about the track. Curious drop in volume at the end.

You're right on the money as far as the time of recording is concerned!

I have never heard of Pino di Modugno, though I'd certainly be interested! I'm growing to be more and more of an accordion buff!

9: Icky sound, which is a pity. Ornette tune, "When Will the Blues Leave?" West Coast vibe, maybe following the lead of Art Pepper's reading of the tune for Contemporary. The trumpeter sounds terribly familiar, the tenor less so.

That sound is on my source, it's indeed a pity...

10: Aha, a Cecil Taylor tune off The World of Cecil Taylor, I think it's "E.B.". Not so often you hear Cecil covered. The big difference here of course is that the rhythm section plays just as freely here as the pianist whereas on the original Denis Charles mostly keeps time. A good band performance with a nicely unpredictable development (obvously carefully worked-out, with the pianist reaching a vehement climax & then the mood immediately getting calmer for the bass solo). Nice idea for the fadeout with the dancing treble figures too.

As I said, rhythmically I prefer this quite some over C.T.'s version! I think this drummer is incredibly good here!

11: no idea! Fun, if nothing else. The trumpeter sounds familiar, the rest I dunno.

Funny that again the trumpet player sounds familiar (hint hint), I guess you, Nate, would be the only person accross the pond that I think could indeed know him!

12: Nice dramatic opening with the acerbic alto jumping out of the bass drone. Reminds me a bit once the percussion kicks in of Sonny Fortune’s work with Glen Velez, but I really don’t know this: the guy’s tone is so distinctive that I think I would know who it is if I already knew his work. Good track.

Well, you know this guy now! One of the goals of my BFT.

16: hm, I initially thought Carla Bley, but the writing doesn't quite seem like her. I don't get a lot out of this one.  I think on balance I'll still plump for Carla Bley though it does seem awfully cluttered for her.

Not Carla, not at all...

Again introducing some new guy here!

Thanks Nate for some interesting comments!

[mikeweil]

6. Moving up the time line. Nice hard bop quintet. Now here's how to do that relentless rhythm thing that the guy in number 5 was doing so badly--this drummer varies it nicely and when he's pushing, he still has that soft touch. Not sure if this is a bunch of originals or later adepts of the style, but they've got real savoir-faire. A Rolls Royce engine here. Love it!

I like that Rolls Royce engine metaphor! The drummer is the biggest name in here, I still wonder no one has tried to drop some names... mikeweil? Care to give a shot?

After re-listening: The only really BIG name I can relate this to is Kenny Clarke. If it is him, he's not using his own drumset (his snare and bass drum normally sounded fatter) and he's not too inspired. Sounds like he just played along. But those rimshots and hitting the left stick resting on the snare head with the right stick sounds like him, some ride cymbal patterns, and the way he synchronizes bass drum, snare and ride.

Is this mono? Klook sometimes sounded like that on some 1970's recordings outside the CBBB, where he always was on fire, just to show Kenny Clare where the hammer hung.

[king ubu]

Kenny who?

[mmilovan]

Disc 01

Hello to all and many many thanks to Flurin, really enjoyed this one - it covers my tastes as well - now you can imagine how New Orleans can be side by side with free. Well, it's all music, no categories.

I didn't peek at other's people answers, AMG discographies or anything similar, only played those CDs and try to recognize anyone. It's hard task to do. Well at least I can recognize:

1) It's Frog, of course, playing "Old Folks" (the title clicked in my mind early this morning) but in some unusual context. Maybe something from Denmark, but piano does not sounds like Kenny Drew to me. I can hear great loud pulse on bass drum, so it can suggest some of the old school drummers. I like the enthusiasm of the audience, and Ben is always nice choice for me;

2) Well, from what I can hear, this can be Hawk. Traditional jazz lines behind him can be from some of his European records, they are not perfect, and they are not certainly from Fletcher's band, a little chaos compared it to Fletcher. Hell, who knows? The tune is the flag-wavy oriented. Somewhat showcase for Bean, right?

3) Can it be the same ensemble as for previous one?

4) Well, this is somebody who can emulate Hawk until some limitations. It can be Chu Berry, but he is smoother than Chu. "I'm In a Mood For Love" is the standard here. I must say I like the execution, but can not recognize any particular tenor star, they sounded similar;

5) Now, that's the hard one. What band it could be? What soloist? Illinois Jacquett? The trumpet player copied phrases from Cootie Williams when he played with Benny Goodman. Now piano sounds more like Eroll Gardner, but never heard him played with big-band. And that percussive guitar...

6) That saxophone solo sounds like Jerome Richardson or early Trane, but, don't know, probably - it is someone else.

7) Great Helen, "What Is This Thing...". It is very nice to hear Helen Merrill in various contexts. She never get into things I dislike with Sarah - Merrill is always very straight forward oriented while improvising the tune, no timbre distortions, glissandos and other devices, just smooth and nice voice to enjoy to. Piano sounds silveresque...

8) Now, there is another take of the same standard on other disc, I know. I forgot the right name, first notes always sounds like "Speak Low", but it's not "Speak Low". Shame on me, I've heard it thousand times. This is very interesting harmonica playing, I can't wait to hear the right answer. Harmonica is not always best connected with swing and jazz tradition, so it's pleasure to hear someone who can really play it well.

From this moment till the end, don't ask me. Only short clumsy words to describe what I've heard, and it was pleasure to listen to those.

9) Haven't got the clue, interesting tenor;

10) Some free oriented piano;

11) Well, the tune is form "Boogalloo" kind of tunes. I don't like the bass, so thin and electrical to my taste;

12) Don't know;

13) I must say I like this one very much. It has inner strength although it's free, but it's very unusual one - first it begins quiet, climax is where it should be, and then again quiet. Nice performers, two tenor men, but...

14) Don't have an idea for piano player

15) Can it be Trane?

16) Don't know;

17) -

18) Well, it's very tricky ending to hear Duke doing off announcement!

Anyway, thanks Flurin, again, some of the tunes inspired me so well, especially from disc 2, and here that free number (13). You did great job, and tunes are very well programmed. I know for yours passion for saxophone, and surely it is included in your choice.

It was pleasure.

Edited March 26, 2005 by mmilovan

[Noj]

Thanks to his royal highness King Ubu for the well-varied selections, quite the eclectic mix! I dig the funny quotes mixed in, too.

Blindfold Test #24 Disc One

1. Somewhat of a tearjerker. I could see myself getting all emotional listening to this.

2. I feel as if a train just roared by!

3. Express rail three! I'd have little luck guessing as my listening of music from this era is very limited.

4. I'm sensing a theme! I like this better than the previous two. A shame about the noise in all three, but it doesn't bug me too much. I dig these old sub-three-minute tracks. Hit it and quit it.

5. This cooks! Would I be wrong to suggest this is...funky even? Funk before there was funk. That muted trumpet is having a blast! Is this Hamp on the vibes? Nice solos all around.

6. Blue Note? Top notch.

7. Don't know the vocalist, but she's cool. Drummer's band? I like the trades with the piano. Good stuff!

8. Is that an accordion? That's unexpected. Rufus Harley? No, he's bagpipes. Anyway, this isn't your average accordionist. Great track! I love those quirky, seldom-used instruments: harps, bass clarinets, accordions, and what not.

9. I feel as if I should know who is playing. I dig it, especially the piano! Wynton Kelly?

10. Now things have gone off-kilter, and not necessarily to my liking. Too fast, and I'm not sure if they stay together the whole time. It creates an uncomfortable mood, lost sounding and desperate. The cut to a bass solo was unexpected. Yet again, it is searching for something, frantically; nearly dropping into a beat then trailing off. It tells a story, but in a disturbed voice. I don't think I would listen to this repeatedly.

11. Switching gears again, this sounds a bit cheesey to me. There's something in the overall theme that I don't like, it's too happy or something.

12. A drone and we're elsewhere. I like this quite a bit, the way the droning bowed bass and the congas get the pace going. It reminds me of a Jack Costanzo track I have with a latin theme, but this one is more Middle Eastern-sounding. Nice!

13. More droning, sounds a bit spooky. Ghostly whines. Like #10, this is somewhat uncomfortable to listen to for me. Unnerving.

14. Les McCann? I love this sort of track, really my kind of stuff!

15. Beautiful. No guess, no complaints.

16. Weather Report-ish, but I wouldn't make that my guess. An odd synthesis of styles. Fun, but not something I'd consider a favorite. I like the electric bass here better than #11.

17. Sonny Sharrock?

18. Nice outro!

Thanks again, King Ubu! On to read the responses!

[king ubu]

Thanks for chiming in, Noj! Enjoyed the read! Now you please enjoy the asnwers threads!