ghost of miles Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 It's funny how easy it is to side with the usually vilified record label when they want to put something out that we're all eager to hear, even if it goes against the wishes of the artist or the artist's estate. I'm just sayin'... ← Except that in this case the folks involved (Cuscuna, Belden, etc.) strike me as being more-than-sensitive to such wishes, and (in my reading, anyway) it seems clear that there are some underlying issues with the "aggrieved" party. Why did Wilburn wait this long (five years) to suddenly scotch the release? It's one thing if he were saying, "Miles would never want this released, he told me so," etc.... but we're getting borderline-insane nitpicking instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Word has it that Wilburn has "social" issues involving race and "other things"... Word also has it that he's being egged on in his antagonistical endeavors by another drummer who was fired by Miles, an "Astral Pirate" of sorts... That's just Word. No claims of absolute truth or exclusive knowledge are being made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp626 Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 It's funny how easy it is to side with the usually vilified record label when they want to put something out that we're all eager to hear, even if it goes against the wishes of the artist or the artist's estate. I'm just sayin'... ← Except that in this case the folks involved (Cuscuna, Belden, etc.) strike me as being more-than-sensitive to such wishes, and (in my reading, anyway) it seems clear that there are some underlying issues with the "aggrieved" party. Why did Wilburn wait this long (five years) to suddenly scotch the release? It's one thing if he were saying, "Miles would never want this released, he told me so," etc.... but we're getting borderline-insane nitpicking instead. ← Both good points. I suspect that as fans, we care more about getting the music than anything else, or Lonehill, Proper and others wouldn't be quite so successful. As a secondary consideration, most of us feel that musicians should be compensated fairly. And a few far-sighted souls remember that the music companies need some financial incentives to keep this going. What is so upsetting from a fan's perspective is an estate that goes off the rails and doesn't seem to really be representing the interests of the departed musician (and cutting off their own nose financially). Surely Miles wouldn't have waited 5 years to throw a spanner into this project. Either he would have approved it and gotten things to his satisfaction or he would have cancelled it. I suppose we only really hear about the horror stories. Most estates appear to be far more reasonable (and even helpful) about getting unissued music out. Motivations are always different, and some estates perhaps err more on the side of he/she would have wanted this music out there and some are more on the side that the record label/the world didn't treat him/her with respect and now I'm going to insist on doing things my way. And unless it is an extremely valuable assett, record companies quickly pass on doing business with the difficult estates. From my limited perspective, I certainly prefer the Monk/Coltrane type of estates where they make a concerted effort to get the music out, but clearly I don't know the inside story on any of this. I do know that I wish for long and prosperous careers for our remaining jazz masters, and that estates don't come into the picture until much later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave9199 Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 (edited) Did Wilburn have any say over previous sets that were released? And if so, why were those not a problem (or were they)? Oh, and Wilburn can also suck my dick. Edited November 18, 2005 by dave9199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ornette Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 News from HMV. Sorry! Should be 06/02/06. February, that is - not June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 News from HMV. Sorry! Should be 06/02/06. February, that is - not June. ← Well, not yet, anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Oh, and Wilburn can also suck my dick. ← Be careful what you ask for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 I would like to know what right an estate has to influence a project. The contract signed by the artist should spell out the terms of how the estate gets paid, and it's not clear to me why any estate would have a right of approval over anything recorded and owned by a record company. Maybe Chuck can enlighten me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Seems to me they have to keep a good relationship with the estate for future projects. If this were a "one-off," this would have been put out already with the lawsuits and pay-offs coming afterwards. However, Wilbur's making those guys do the dance, which is a drag. I think Columbia would be better off just to put it out and show Wilbur they aren't going to placate him to this degree. Sometimes you have to hit a bad dog with a wet newspaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Man, I hope Wilburn doesn't show up at my door and threaten to beat me up for calling him a crummy drummer. What the hell has he done since Miles canned him 18 years ago? Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Oh, and Wilburn can also suck my dick. ← Be careful what you ask for... ← LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Seems to me they have to keep a good relationship with the estate for future projects. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 (edited) Seems to me they have to keep a good relationship with the estate for future projects.Why?← No shit. Why? It's like Wilburn is holding this material hostage. (And before Chuck chimes in, no - it's not like we (the public) has any right to hear this material.) But if everything is legal, and the record company has a contract that fairly compensates the artist and/or his estate, then why put up with this "I want a fucking sticker that says I'm a nice guy on it" - or whatever it is that Wilburn thinks it is that he wants this week. God, I hope this doesn't put the kibosh on an 8th Miles studio box (it is 8, right?), with the complete ON THE CORNER sessions. I hope it doesn't, but it probably will. (And how is it that Columbia managed to get out sets #1-#7, from Miles and Trane through Jack Johnson?? Why wasn't Wilburn a total dick about them too??) Edited November 18, 2005 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md655321 Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 I think we should let out Mark David Chapman and tell him Vince Wilburn is the real John Lennon. Really though, once Vince kicks it, do you think the music can get released? I want an on the corner box set! And again, this music is out there, so if this never gets released, you will definitely be able to still hear pristine versions of it. Its the stuff sitll in the vault that im worried about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Once Wilburn goes to that great jam session in the sky, his most direct heir will be in place to make trouble, i.e. his third cousin's wife's dog's groomer. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Seems to me they have to keep a good relationship with the estate for future projects. Why? ← Well, Cuscuna and Beldon are nice dudes, but not that nice. With all the dough piled into this project, promotion, ect...SOMETHING is going on. Miles' estate, no matter how misguided, is holding some cards that we may not know about. Otherwise, this stuff would have been out. I'm no attorney, but the estate must have control/say over something Columbia has/wants in the future. Columbia wouldn't withhold the release just because of stickers, packaging to please some dude who doesn't affect them one way or another. Like it or not, Miles' estate has SOMETHING to do with what's going on with future releases. There's no other explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Seems to me they have to keep a good relationship with the estate for future projects. Why? ← Well, Cuscuna and Beldon are nice dudes, but not that nice. With all the dough piled into this project, promotion, ect...SOMETHING is going on. Miles' estate, no matter how misguided, is holding some cards that we may not know about. Otherwise, this stuff would have been out. I'm no attorney, but the estate must have control/say over something Columbia has/wants in the future. Columbia wouldn't withhold the release just because of stickers, packaging to please some dude who doesn't affect them one way or another. Like it or not, Miles' estate has SOMETHING to do with what's going on with future releases. There's no other explanation. ← Seems to make sense ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Don't know the details but Miles left Columbia for Warners for the advance money. Miles had a habit of calling Columbia and asking for a $###,### advance on royalties and they sent bunches. At the end of the last contract Miles was into Columbia for something over 2 million. Warner's offered $XXXXXXX to sign. It was a "no brainer" for Miles and also a "no brainer" for Columbia to let him go. Most deals for issuing new material involves the artist or estate. For example my Art Ensemble box entailed a payment to them of $xx,xxx for the unissued material. On the other hand, with an artist like Miles and the bucks they were constantly throwing his way, the company probably has the upper hand but is reluctant to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 FWIW I just received an e-mail from Amazon France giving a Dec 5 release date and offering it for EUR 62.19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Amazon.fr has had this Dec. 5 release date and that price for several weeks now. Hope it proves to be correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Wonder why they sent the message today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) Wonder why they sent the message today. Word on the street is that Wilburn didn't like the wording of the email from Amazon France, and help up its original release to you, Chuck. He demanded an edit to the email stating "This email compiled and typed (but contents not produced) by Amazon France". Edited November 21, 2005 by Aggie87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) Aggie87 Edited November 21, 2005 by Chaney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 FWIW I just received an e-mail from Amazon France giving a Dec 5 release date and offering it for EUR 62.19. ← Really? They told me it would e available ##/## for $xx.xx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Amazon.fr has had this Dec. 5 release date and that price for several weeks now. Hope it proves to be correct! The website now says 30 january 2006 http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000AP2Z6C/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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