Copy protection question

[bertrand]

It has come to my attention (thanks to tonym) that European copy-protected RVGs cannot be uploaded to iPods, at least not through iTunes. Apparently, this can only be done with some complicated software.

Has anyone else experienced this? I have yet to buy any copy-protected CDs (that I know of), so I have not had to face this problem. I do remember a past thread where people were not able to play a Jimmy Smith Verve reissue on their computers. Since no other titles were mentioned, I thought this might be a fluke related to just this one title. So my questions are:

1. Are there other copy-protected Verves that can't be played on a PC?

2. Can these titles be uploaded to iPods?

3. Have others experienced the same problem as tonym in uploading European copy-protected RVGs to iPods?

If the answer is yes to 3 , I will start an open letter to Blue Note in another thread. Once I get enough signatures, I will send this to Michael Cuscuna (and later, some Jazz mags) to complain, and ask him to forward this letter to the bigwigs at Blue Note/EMI. If the answer to 1 and 2 is yes, I'll also send it to Verve. Apple will not be too thrilled either. It's not like these titles could be re-purchased through iTunes. Most Blue Note CDs only have some tracks available.

Bottom line: PCs and iPods are legal means of playback with the same status as regular CD players. Their product should play on these media with no problems. If not. their products are defective and should be returned.

If anything, this will encourage stealing. For example, a dishonest person would send tonym a burn of the U.S. CD so he can upload it to his iPod. The copy protection will just encourage such illegal activity, which of course no one here on this forum condones.

Bertrand.

Edited March 29, 2005 by bertrand

[Noj]

If what you say is true Bertrand, it is really silly that they made the copy protected

discs incompatable with iPod. It isn't like one can share iPod files with anyone else--I heard if you try to share your files it erases everything on the iPod.

[mikeos]

It has come to my attention (thanks to tonym) that European copy-protected RVGs cannot be uploaded to iPods, at least not through iTunes. Apparently, this can only be done with some complicated software.

Has anyone else experienced this? I have yet to buy any copy-protected CDs (that I know of), so I have not had to face this problem. I do remember a past thread where people were not able to play a Jimmy Smith Verve reissue on their computers. Since no other titles were mentioned, I thought this might be a fluke related to just this one title. So my questions are:

1. Are there other copy-protected Verves that can't be played on a PC?

2. Can these titles be uploaded to iPods?

3. Have others experienced the same problem as tonym in uploading European copy-protected RVGs to iPods?

If the answer is yes to 3 , I will start an open letter to Blue Note in another thread. Once I get enough signatures, I will send this to Michael Cuscuna (and later, some Jazz mags) to complain, and ask him to forward this letter to the bigwigs at Blue Note/EMI. If the answer to 1 and 2 is yes, I'll also send it to Verve. Apple will not be too thrilled either. It's not like these titles could be re-purchased through iTunes. Most Blue Note CDs only have some tracks available.

Bottom line: PCs and iPods are legal means of playback with the same status as regular CD players. Their product should play on these media with no problems. If not. their products are defective and should be returned.

If anything, this will encourage stealing. For example, a dishonest person would send tonym a burn of the U.S. CD so he can upload it to his iPod. The copy protection will just encourage such illegal activity, which of course no one here on this forum condones.

Bertrand.

Just download some software called CDEX, rip the CD tracks, then you can do what you want with them.

http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/

[Claude]

Your question is a bit confusing, because copyprotection on CDs means the audio data on the disc cannot be extracted ("ripped") on the PC, independently of what is intended with the extracted data (CD copy, MP3 files, AAC files for the Ipod).

Those discs are meant to be played in CD players. On the PC, only some compressed files from a data section of the CD can be played.

Some CD drives are immune to copy protection, they simply ignore it. Some CD ripping software is also better in doing that. But there is no software that can extract copyprotected CDs with any drive.

A legal argument to say the discs should be copyable will inevitably fail, because copyprotected CD can always be copied through the analog chain: connect your CD player to the sound card of your PC, record the music and burn the file as an audio CD (or convert it to the Ipod format). The copy will not sound as good as a digital one (depends on the quality of the sound card), and this is much more unconfortable and timeconsuming , but it is wrong to say that these discs cannot be legally copied.

The objective of the music industry is to have the consumers pay for a copyprotected CD and then again for music downloads.

My advice is to boycott copyprotected CDs altogether. This is the only way music labels will learn.

[Bluerein]

Michael Cuscuna has nothing to do with the CC programme EMI Europe has so mailing or writing his is of no use. You should write to the EMI Europe head office (in London I believe) and complain there. EMI US is not using the CC at all so don't bother them with it. I agree it's a crappy way of doing business but I guess they had to invent something (which is useless after all).

[trane_fanatic]

Some CD drives are immune to copy protection, they simply ignore it. Some CD ripping software is also better in doing that. But there is no software that can extract copyprotected CDs with any drive.

If CDex doesn't work, there is also poikosoft, which has a 30-day trial.

poikosoft

Edited March 29, 2005 by trane_fanatic

[Claude]

I use Easy CD Extractor from Poikosoft. It was unable to read a copyprotected Blue Note CD in my DVD drive, just as alll the other softwares. But on my CD burner drive, the CD could be played and copied without a problem.

[tonym]

I did indeed mention on another thread that my pile of recent RVGs weren't able to be uploaded onto the iPod. I did in fact, try CDeX, but found it very confusing, more due to the fact that I'm no wizard on the PC.

The software that Claude recommends may be worth a try but if what he says applies to my laptop too, then it may be redundant; I have a DVD drive but no CD writer...

So, if anyone can offer advice about CDeX etc., we'd be more than grateful

Cheers all.

[couw]

So, if anyone can offer advice about CDeX etc., we'd be more than grateful

http://www.users.on.net/~alexanderino/cdex/

the current version of CDex looks a bit spiffier, but it is basically the same.

someone mentioned that during installation he was prompted to pay for some LAME codec. Haven't found out the details behind that, but LAME is free, just like CDex so don't pay anything anywhere.

I recommend you get the 3.90.3 LAME encoder.

[tonym]

As per usual, John comes up with the priceless techie low down

Thanks all.

[chuckyd4]

I don't know if I'm in the minority on this one, but I have quite a few of the EMI/Blue Note copy protected CDs (hey! most of them were free!!!), and I have yet to have a problem ripping them to my computer with iTunes (or therefore transferring them to my iPod). FWIW, I have a Macintosh Powerbook G4, the latest model, and have listened to them all after being ripped and detect no problems.

Other people have really had problems with this?

[tonym]

So, if anyone can offer advice about CDeX etc., we'd be more than grateful

http://www.users.on.net/~alexanderino/cdex/

the current version of CDex looks a bit spiffier, but it is basically the same.

someone mentioned that during installation he was prompted to pay for some LAME codec. Haven't found out the details behind that, but LAME is free, just like CDex so don't pay anything anywhere.

I recommend you get the 3.90.3 LAME encoder.

My computer is not allowing the LAME download to install files. I have turned off all my popup blocker settings

[couw]

So, if anyone can offer advice about CDeX etc., we'd be more than grateful

http://www.users.on.net/~alexanderino/cdex/

the current version of CDex looks a bit spiffier, but it is basically the same.

someone mentioned that during installation he was prompted to pay for some LAME codec. Haven't found out the details behind that, but LAME is free, just like CDex so don't pay anything anywhere.

I recommend you get the 3.90.3 LAME encoder.

My computer is not allowing the LAME download to install files. I have turned off all my popup blocker settings

did you get the zip file?

http://www.rarewares.org/files/mp3/lame-3.90.3.zip

[bertrand]

Idiot that I am, I thought that copy protection mean you couldn't burn copies of the CDs, not that you couldn't upload them to a PC. That sucks even more.

1. Blue Note: well, Blue Note U.S. isn't doing it so I'll just forget about that (I was going to send my letter to MC so he could forward it to the people at EMI, but since EMI U.S. has nothing to do with it, forget it). I'm sorry for our European friends.

2. Other labels: what jazz labels are using copy protection in the U.S. Did we decide that Jimmy Smith Verve (The Boss, I think) was protected? What other Verve titles are protected? I have Snap Your Fingers, 'S Make It, Gloria Coleman and Billy Mitchell in this series. Are the protected? (I think I played the Coleman on my PC). Is it written on the CD case? Any other jazz labels doing this? If it's not written on the back, and it can't play on a PC, then it's defective.

Thanks,

Bertrand.

Edited March 29, 2005 by bertrand

[AfricaBrass]

2. Other labels: what jazz labels are using copy protection in the U.S. Did we decide that Jimmy Smith Verve (The Boss, I think) was protected? What other Verve titles are protected? I have Snap Your Fingers, 'S Make It, Gloria Coleman and Billy Mitchell in this series. Are the protected? (I think I played the Coleman on my PC). Is it written on the CD case? Any other jazz labels doing this? If it's not written on the back, and it can't play on a PC, then it's defective.

I had no problem ripping my copy of The Boss by Jimmy Smith.

I hate copy protection. I can't see me ever buying a copy protected cd. Things like this make me glad that I don't have an iPod. I would never use the iTunes. I don't want ANYONE controlling my music except ME.

[Cali]

I don't know if I'm in the minority on this one, but I have quite a few of the EMI/Blue Note copy protected CDs (hey! most of them were free!!!), and I have yet to have a problem ripping them to my computer with iTunes (or therefore transferring them to my iPod).  FWIW, I have a Macintosh Powerbook G4, the latest model, and have listened to them all after being ripped and detect no problems.

Other people have really had problems with this?

I have a Mac G4 and the RVG of JACKIE'S BAG and Larry Young's CONN, MOTHERSHIP cannot be read by my machine. The cd icon doesn't even appear on the desktop and therefore cannot play on my Mac at all.

[tonym]

I don't know if I'm in the minority on this one, but I have quite a few of the EMI/Blue Note copy protected CDs (hey! most of them were free!!!), and I have yet to have a problem ripping them to my computer with iTunes (or therefore transferring them to my iPod).  FWIW, I have a Macintosh Powerbook G4, the latest model, and have listened to them all after being ripped and detect no problems.

Other people have really had problems with this?

I have a Mac G4 and the RVG of JACKIE'S BAG and Larry Young's CONN, MOTHERSHIP cannot be read by my machine. The cd icon doesn't even appear on the desktop and therefore cannot play on my Mac at all.

Yeah Cali, when I search 'My Computer' for the audio file in the E Drive, it's almost as if it doesn't exist. The only way to play it uses some media player I din't even know my laptop had.

BTW. My friend got a gold over in the velodrome. Did you get chance to go?

[Claude]

The only way to play it uses some media player I din't even know my laptop had.

The software is on the CD itself, if I remember correctly, and it plays compressed files from the data section of the disc, not the audio CD data themselves, which are inaccessible for the PC if the copyprotection works correctly. That's the way the CDs are meant to be played on a PC.

[wolff]

Claude, your knowledge in these matters is second to none. Why/how? It would drive me nuts keeping up with this shit. I avoid it by stickng to analog.

[DatDere]

My portable cd player refuses to play any of the copy protected Blue Note RVG's so I'm practically forced to rip and copy them, in order to listen to these albums while traveling. I've had plenty of success with CDex and a HP CD-R drive to read the discs and convert to WAV. Just convert all audio tracks and skip the last data track, then reburn. Unfortunately, this method doesn't seem to work with various DVD-R drives.

I'm pretty new to jazz, so I don't have any older non-protected editions of these albums. The only alternative available to me is to order the US RVG editions online.

[Claude]

Claude, your knowledge in these matters is second to none. Why/how? It would drive me nuts keeping up with this shit. I avoid it by stickng to analog.

Thanks, but my knowledge is actually quite basic. Information on these things can usually be found on computer-related websites, not on music sites.

[Cali]

BTW. My friend got a gold over in the velodrome. Did you get chance to go?

Glad to see your friend got the gold. I was on my way to the velodrome when a last minute situation occurred. Very disappointed. Happy for you and your bud.

[Cali]

I have a Mac G4 and the RVG of JACKIE'S BAG and Larry Young's CONN, MOTHERSHIP cannot be read by my machine. The cd icon doesn't even appear on the desktop and therefore cannot play on my Mac at all.   

Does anyone know a solution to my situation? My BN cds were U.S. versions. How can I burn them?

[couw]

I have a Mac G4 and the RVG of JACKIE'S BAG and Larry Young's CONN, MOTHERSHIP cannot be read by my machine. The cd icon doesn't even appear on the desktop and therefore cannot play on my Mac at all.    

Does anyone know a solution to my situation? My BN cds were U.S. versions. How can I burn them?

If the drive does not recognise the disks, the drive will not recognise the disks. Sad, but simple like that. I assume your drive is clean and that it involves only these two disks. Try them on another drive.

[Bluerein]

I have the same problem with 3 of the 9 (I believe) discs of the Dexter Gordon Complete Prestige box (German pressing, not CC'ed). The drive just doesn't read them. I even tried another copy of the set (yes working in a Jazz record store does help....) and the same problem was there too. So that's not a CC problem but a factory defect which "corrupts" the drive. PS just tried my US Mothership and it works fine on my iMac.

Edited March 30, 2005 by Bluerein