Question for the non-American board members

[TheMusicalMarine]

I know that a fair number of you are from countries where English is not a first language, but I've yet to read a post where the English isn't impeccable, or close to it. Did you learn English in school, or did you take it upon yourselves to become proficient in it? I find it all very impressive.

Disclaimer: I realize that many of you Americans, Canadians, Australians, UKers might be fluent in another language. Myself, I am not so enterprising.

Edited to add: SINCE ARIC WAS BANNED

Edited April 16, 2005 by TheMusicalMarine

[Jazzmoose]

I know that a fair number of you are from countries where English is not a first language, but I've yet to read a post where the English isn't impeccable, or close to it.

I assume you mean 'since Aric was banned'....

[Epithet]

Think of how much more conversational his posts were as a result.

[BERIGAN]

I know that a fair number of you are from countries where English is not a first language, but I've yet to read a post where the English isn't impeccable, or close to it. Did you learn English in school, or did you take it upon yourselves to become proficient in it? I find it all very impressive.

Disclaimer: I realize that many of you Americans, Canadians, Australians, UKers might be fluent in another language. Myself, I am not so enterprising.

Edited to add: SINCE ARIC WAS BANNED

No joke, I have thought about posting something like this on and off for quite some time, but never could word it quite the way I wanted to. I wanted to praise, and slap them all at the same time!

Seriously though, it is one thing to write pretty good English (better than many of us here) but to "get" American humor, to be funny in something that is not your native tongue, to say something like you feel "stoopid" well dammit, bravo!

[BERIGAN]

Nothing but American board members responding so far! (Well, Epithet is from not given, not sure what side of the pond that is)

[kenny weir]

having struggled to make myself understood in the US - mainly New Orleans - I'm not sure about the accuracy of assertions that Kiwis and Aussies speak the same language as Americans.

But we are just as lazy when it comes to being multi-lingual.

[tjobbe]

working for US company's since years, but BERIGAN.. Humor is exactly what America needs more of.. maybe of Old European Humor...

Cheers, Tjobbe

[A Lark Ascending]

having struggled to make myself understood in the US - mainly New Orleans - I'm not sure about the accuracy of assertions that Kiwis and Aussies speak the same language as Americans.

Ditto Limeys

[king ubu]

Uh, well, being half a descendant of British convicts sent to the Pacific ("Aussies" being another name applied to these...)

I'll be 13 tomorrow, and I have always been like this. I was seven when I was born, and spoke english fluently as long as I can remember, that is, since two years before I was born.

[brownie]

I studied english in high school. My parents were wise enough to get me to Summer studies in England in my teenage. The idea was to learn english. Spent most of the time chasing girls, watching movies (no subtitles) and exploring record stores. Did me a lot of good, on all points.

Also started reading american and english books (Mailer, Salinger, Perelman, Nabokov, etc...). Then The New York Times had the excellent idea of launching a same-day edition in Europe (eight pages each if I remember well). Also I subscribed to The New Yorker. All this was in the late fifties.

This got me the journalist bug.

I must have been passing as a poseur when I was in the French Army helping to lose the war in Algeria and getting weekly shipments from home with the latest issues of the New Yorker and the NY Herald Tribune.

I was ready to join an American news agency soon after I came back to civilian life. English was soon a second language... well, almost!

Edited April 16, 2005 by brownie

[king ubu]

To add a serious post now: I've first started learning *some* english when I was 9 or 10, in some sort of private evening course for kids, which was fun, since my parents have friends from all over the world, and it was fun being a kid being able to at least try and talk to them... this helped me having a very very easy start with english at high school. Now studying history at University, I have to read English papers quite often, and usually don't have much of a problem dealing with them. However, I guess participating in discussions here is also helping me quite a bit, too.

[tjobbe]

just to add this, I leaned english in school but that was a rather dry exercise and you do not really speak and train it there. Since 10years or so, I'm working for US companies (or internationally else) so that currently about 80% of all daily verbal and written comms is in english, sometimes even more and it ends up in finding myself prefering to read books in english before they get translated into german or -benefit of the DVD age- can watch my favourite films in orginals score... have you ever listened to Seinfeld in the german synchro.. UGLY

as I'm currently pretty often dealing with french customers and find myself traveling to Paris frequently I'm currently feel a little bit sad haven't had more french lessons in school or finding any other way to practice an add-on language....

Cheers, Tjobbe

[king ubu]

To add to what tjobbe said: indeed, relying on what english one can learn at school (assuming Switzerland and Germany are more or less comparable in this regard), you would not get that far. I've also started reading English books back when I was at school, and I suppose that helped a lot.

As far as films are concerned, I'm very happy to live in Switzerland, or rather: in Zürich, as you can see each and every film in it's original version, with german subtitles. I'd *hate* having to see films in synchronised version! (I love the cinema far too much to even consider surviving with synchronized films, I *need* the originals, no matter if French, English, or Japanese...)

[B. Goren.]

In Israel everybody learns English in school. To be honest, when I finished high school, I couldn’t even by an ice-cream with my poor English. Later on I spent one year in the US. In many aspects, this year gave me much more than many years in school. When I came back I could think in English and I think that's what makes the difference. Unfortunately, this is something that even the best teacher can't teach you.

[rostasi]

... have you ever listened to Seinfeld in the german synchro.. UGLY

The Simpson's, too, is soooooooooo wrong

Lisa's voice is the only one that seems to fit,

but of course, one is dealing with familiarities.

Maybe tjobbe can explain the German use of the English word "since"?

I hear (and see) statements like, "I've had this CD since two years."

instead of "...for two years." I noticed it twice just in this thread.

Is this just habit that is spread among the German/English speakers

or is this taught in "die Schulen?"

Traveling often in Germany, I first thought that it was a curious mistake

made only by a few people in certain geographical areas,

but it appears to be used by many German/English speakers.

Edited April 16, 2005 by rostasi

[couw]

The German "seit" is used both when referring to a specific point in time (cf. "since") and when referring to a time period (cf. "for"). Similarly "sinds" in Dutch, wich goes to show that actually the English language has it wrong.

[rostasi]

The German "seit" is used both when referring to a specific point in time (cf. "since") and when referring to a time period (cf. "for"). Similarly "sinds" in Dutch, wich goes to show that actually the English language has it wrong. 

This is the case too often really!

Rod (who's, at this very moment, looking at "die Bahn" train schedules)

[Swinging Swede]

Interesting. The Swedish "sedan" only refers to a specific point in time, just like in English (just as in English?). So perhaps English has it right after all!

It's very common that a word in one's native language only corresponds to a word in a foreign language in certain instances and not in other, as in this case. I think it is particularly confusing when the words are related as they often are in the Germanic languages. The similarity often gives a false sense of security.

[tjobbe]

Thanks couw for the Dutch explanation of the german language and it seems that sometimes the german language is much simpler when compared to the English one

Rod, there are cases where -in that case the german one- does not know the difference between period and point in time (and I beleive there are others too) so as I'm an intutive speaker (as else in my day-to-day work, it takes simply to long to formulate thoughts) my intuition sometimes fails or fools me.

My wife ones told me after a three week trip to Singapore that I was talking while sleeping...in ENGLISH.. and I often recognize that I re-translate (specially when its about my work) phrases from english into german and fail to find an appropriate word for my thoughts in my native language (which causes some friends to take me for being arrogant or what ever else... )

cheers, Tjobbe

[couw]

Interesting. The Swedish "sedan" only refers to a specific point in time

Come to think of it, this is also the case in Dutch, sorry for the mistake. Apparantly, I have been in Germany for too long! The use of "sinds" when referring to a time period is used in colloquial Dutch, though and certainly also in the dialect I speak at home.

[rostasi]

Thanks couw for the Dutch explanation of the german language  and it seems that sometimes the german language is much simpler when compared to the English one

Rod, there are cases where -in that case the german one- does not know the difference between period and point in time (and I beleive there are others too) so as I'm an intutive speaker (as else in my day-to-day work, it takes simply to long to formulate thoughts) my intuition sometimes fails    or fools me.

My wife ones told me after a three week trip to Singapore that I was talking while sleeping...in ENGLISH.. and I often recognize that I re-translate (specially when its about my work) phrases from english into german and fail to find an appropriate word for my thoughts in my native language (which causes some friends to take me for being arrogant or what ever else... )

cheers, Tjobbe

Yes, there are other examples.

I'm not sure why I noticed just that one in particular.

I think it just may "stick out" in conversation with German folks

who speak better English than I do!

I understand what you mean when you speak of talking in English in your sleep.

German friends tell me that they sometimes have English-speaking dreams

especially after a lengthy period of contact with English speakers (conferences, seminars, etc).

German, for me, comes back quickly while in Germany of course, but,

also, the mannerisms - even adopting the German form of English rhythm, etc

i.e. that quick "yeah-yeah" that's spoken after a strong agreement. I don't know

if German speakers pick up various English language based mannerisms.

Oh, one other thing... a German composer friend of mine decided to use English only for his website,

because he complained that it takes too many words in German to say the same thing in English!

Edited April 16, 2005 by rostasi

[maren]

Now -- what about the English word "meant" ???

I have a friend from Australia who, when she's heard good reviews about a restaurant or a movie that we're thinking of going to, says

"It's meant to be quite nice."

As a U.S. speaker, when I first heard that, I had to "translate" to myself. I would only say "It's meant to be nice" if I meant "Someone INTENDED for it to be nice."

If I were trying to say "people say it's nice" -- I'd say that! Or, "it's SAID to be quite nice" or "it's thought to be nice" or "it's supposed to be nice."

Now, I know that the German verb "meinen" is a cognate for "to mean" that incorporates both the usual meaning of "meant" ("I said what I meant and I meant what I said") AND the usage of my Australian friend.

My question is: does everyone in Australia (and England?) use "meant" to refer to "the general public opinion" -- or is this a quirk of my friend's owing to the fact that her mother's native tongue is German?

Edited April 16, 2005 by maren