The Francis Davis Appreciation Thread

[Jazzmoose]

For that matter, what's so wrong with Oprah?

I'm no fan, (I don't even watch TV), but she's far from the nadir of the medium with the likes of Pat O'Brien, etc., sullying our airwaves.

Damn, she gets people to read.

Read books.

Exactly what I thought while glancing over this thread yesterday.

to anybody who inspires a habitual afternoon-TV-watcher to check One Hundred Years of Solitude out of the library...

I hear that! You ought to see the stuff my wife reads now; I have to hide my lighter stuff out of embarrassment...

[epistrophy]

Aside from getting hung up on certain tangents, I think Davis is a fine, insightful writer. I was bothered by his near-obsession with the sexual tendencies of various musicians in Outcats. After a while he seemed to be hinting that the book's title was a double entendre. But he's had massive shoes to fill at the Village Voice, and thus far I think he's done a most admirable job.

- Todd

[Chuck Nessa]

But he's had massive shoes to fill at the Village Voice, and thus far I think he's done a most admirable job.

- Todd

Boy, I hope to come back (no time now) but MASSIVE SHOES is beyond my ability to comprehend.

[JSngry]

Clown shoes are pretty massive, maybe that's what is meant?

[Kalo]

I met Gary Giddins a month or so back and he's a very small guy.

Didn't notice his shoes.

[BruceH]

Well, I don't care if anybody else wants to post here, but Francis has had more shit dumped on him on this site recently than just about anybody else. But, in reality, Francis is

1) one of the best and most knowledgeable writers on music and culture in the US of A

2) A nice guy, approachable and open, unlike a lot of other critics

in addition:

1) no animals were harmed in the publication of his latest book, and

2) the hell with Clementine

Here here!!!

I agree.

[BruceH]

I find him to be an excellent writer on the whole--I just think that the mingy amount of space he gets in the Voice is not his best forum. I read that rag less and less as they shrink down ALL of their reviewers' space. Has anyone noticed that they now banner an "Essay" in every issue, when it used to be that almost every article could be considered an essay?

Yes, I've noticed. Personally, the Voice has given me less and less reason to read them as they've given their contributers less and less space. A damn shame, really.

[epistrophy]

Boy, I hope to come back (no time now) but MASSIVE SHOES is beyond my ability to comprehend.

Oh, come on. You guys aren't going to bang on Giddens, too, are you?

[JSngry]

Just the size of his shoes.

[Kalo]

Actually, I'm a fan of Giddins, too. I learned a lot from his writing over the years, especially when I was first getting into jazz. He's seemed to be less interesting to me in recent years, which could be because I know more and have more formed opinions now, or that he's lost some steam. Still, I plan to buy his latest book.

The point I was making in my post was that he's rather diminutive physically, which surprised me, I suppose because he looks kind of patriarchal in his photos and I just expected him to be, ya know, larger.

He was quite funny in person, too, though not in a clownish way.

Still no comment on his shoes.

[JSngry]

Actually, I'm a fan of Giddins, too. I learned a lot from his writing over the years, especially when I was first getting into jazz. He's seemed to be less interesting to me in recent years, which could be because I know more and have more formed opinions now...

That's true of me and a lot of "major" jazz writers, past and present. The list of people I once read religiously and still do have dwindled down to but a few. The rest just don't tell me anything anymore, at least not anything that engages me in terms of opinion and/or information.

C'est la vie.

[AllenLowe]

I think Giddins is a brilliant critic and writer - I have two problems with him, however:

1) he has been asleep on much of the jazz of the last 20 years, and

2) worst of all, he was quite mean to me once...and hurt my feelings...and libeled me in print...

aside from that, he's ok -

[Kalo]

The first book I read about Jazz, way back in 1979, was James Lincoln Collier's The Making of Jazz. Unbelievably opinionated, dubiously delving into various musician's psychologies (most famously, he called Bird a sociopath), and very anal about what is and isn't really jazz (as I recall, he pretty much writes off most Ellington after the '40s.) I basically disagree with most of this book now, but it gave me a roadmap and got me started. Though, as I recall, his discussion of swing (the musical quality, not the genre), a notoriously difficult nut to crack, was pretty good.

We all have to start somewhere.

Nowadays I learn more from this forum than just about anywhere else.

Edited May 18, 2005 by Kalo

[Kalo]

AllenLowe Posted on May 17 2005, 07:17 PM

  I think Giddins is a brilliant critic and writer - I have two problems with him, however:

1) he has been asleep on much of the jazz of the last 20 years, and

2) worst of all, he was quite mean to me once...and hurt my feelings...and libeled me in print...

aside from that, he's ok -

I agree that he is a very good prose stylist, which is part of what keeps me reading.

Jazz of the last 20 years has been such a centrifugal explosion that I'd be surprised if anyone has a handle on it.

I can't say he seemed like an extra-nice guy when I met him. Mostly he talked about himself.

Edited May 18, 2005 by Kalo

[Kalo]

JSngry Posted: May 17 2005, 07:04 PM

The list of people I once read religiously and still do have dwindled down to but a few.

Just curious, Jim, but which critics still float your boat? I ask because, as I said above, I learn more from this forum nowadays than just about anywhere else. And you're one of the main guys LEARNIN' me.

[JSngry]

Just curious, Jim, but which critics still float your boat? I ask because, as I said above, I learn more from this forum nowadays than just about anywhere else. And you're one of the main guys LEARNIN' me.

Of the "name brands":

Stanley Dance, Larry Kart, Dan Morgenstern, & John Litwieler for thier shrewd and insightful critical acumen (even when I disagree with their conclusions); Chris Albertson, Lewis Porter, & Mike Fitzgerald for their comprehensive biographical skills; Whitney Balliet & Joe Goldberg for thier writing style(s), and early Amiri Baraka for his ability to vividly (and accurately, I believe) capture a moment in time. Probably a few others, but those are the ones who spring readily to mind.

I find nowadays that most everybody else has it either "wrong", incomplete, or has an agenda that is not relevant to my lifestyle, if you get my drift. I have my own experiences in the music and my own perspectives and opinions as a result. Sue me.

I'm flattered that I be LEARNIN' ya', but if you learn anything from me, I hope that it's there's always more to the music than anybody says, including me.

ESPECIALLY including me!

[Kalo]

Thanks, Jim.

Time to get reading. Will start with the recent books from Kart and Morgenstern(always love his liner notes).

[Kalo]

I've had many a dally at Balliet, and my go at Goldberg (frustratingly, my copy of his Jazz Masters of the 50s has no index, meaning that I don't return to it as often as I should).

And you've convinced me to get back to Baraka.

By the way, how IS "Balliet" pronounced? With a hard "T" or in the French manner?

Actually, looking back, my rhyme above works OK either way.

Don't ask me WHY I rhymed.

Guess it's the musician in me.

(So, if my prose is musical, I wonder if my music is prosaic?)

[Jazzmoose]

(So, if my prose is musical, I wonder if my music is prosaic?)

Look, buster, around here our prose is morose and our music is Mosaic!

[Kalo]

On the nose, 'Moose.

I couldn't have but it putter myself.

[AllenLowe]

I find Balliet's descriptions and event reviews generally difficult to wade through - but his profiles are priceless -

[Dr. Rat]

Actually, I'm a fan of Giddins, too. I learned a lot from his writing over the years, especially when I was first getting into jazz. He's seemed to be less interesting to me in recent years, which could be because I know more and have more formed opinions now, or that he's lost some steam. Still, I plan to buy his latest book.

The point I was making in my post was that he's rather diminutive physically, which surprised me, I suppose because he looks kind of patriarchal in his photos and I just expected him to be, ya know, larger.

He was quite funny in person, too, though not in a clownish way.

Still no comment on his shoes.

I kinda like Giddens because he did stuff like write complimentary articles about Bobby Hackett at a time when it was completely uncool to do so. Back in the day when you spun the Gleason records with an audible smirk. You remeber the cocktail music craze, right?

To be the uncool contrarian and not even to get much attention for it. That's cool.

--eric

[jazztrain]

By the way, how IS "Balliet" pronounced? With a hard "T" or in the French manner?

Hard T.

Balli (like rally, sally, or tally) - et (like in "bet").

Accent on first syllable of name.

[JSngry]

(So, if my prose is musical, I wonder if my music is prosaic?)

As long as it's not prozac, I'd not sweat it.

[BruceH]

Actually, I'm a fan of Giddins, too. I learned a lot from his writing over the years, especially when I was first getting into jazz. He's seemed to be less interesting to me in recent years, which could be because I know more and have more formed opinions now, or that he's lost some steam.

←

Probably a bit of both.