Paypal problem

[Shrdlu]

You might appreciate a warning about Paypal, which is normally a breeze to use.

I just landed a CD on eBay, and when I paid with Paypal, the payment was refused, as the dude "does not want credit cards". I did not understand the nature of the problem when I bidded and paid, as I thought that when I paid, the funds would go to Paypal, and then to the seller. So, surely, it would not matter HOW I paid Paypal. Not so, apparently. When you use Paypal, you are virtually dealing directly with the seller.

I now wish that I had not made a bid.

To get out of this mess, I have had to link my checking account directly to Paypal. Though I have no evidence to suggest that Paypal's security could be brought into question, I nevertheless feel kinda uneasy about this.

I feel this way because recently a hacker got into my eBay account and also the email address that I was using for eBay. I lost my eBay account for a few weeks. eBay reinstated my account, but I lost the email address. Also, last year, someone started charging bogus items to my VISA debit card, and I had to get the bank to change the card number. Shrdlu says "cwmf"!

So, you have been warned.

[Dan Gould]

For what its worth, paypal members who accept credit cards have to agree to be "preferred merchants" or something like that, i.e., to allow Paypal to get a chunk of the credit card charge. I got suckered into doing this when I sold something on ebay, said I would accept paypal in order to simplify payment and then discovered that I'd have to "upgrade" or else tell the guy I couldn't accept his credit card. I felt that since I hadn't told him I wouldn't accept credit card payments, that I ought to bite the bullet and let paypal get their pound of flesh.

What sucks now is, paypal gets a small percentage of all payments that come my way, whether its credit or bank transfer. Guess I'm lucky that I use it more for payments than for receiving.

[Jim Alfredson]

Paypal is a scam. I've never delt with it and never will based on what I've read about it. They bilked a buddy of mine out of $500.

When we decided to sell our CD online, a lot of people said to use Paypal. I researched it and decided against it.

[Dan Gould]

How exactly did they 'bilk" him? I've used it for several years and while the horror stories give me pause, I have no reason (other than the situation described above) to complain.

[connoisseur series500]

Paypal is a pain in the ass.

I registered years ago with a different email address than I have now, and I've never been able to purge it from their system. As a result, I am unable to use paypal today. I just say "fuck em," and run out to gas stations to buy money orders. If a seller demands paypal only then I don't bid. Simple as that.

[Claude]

Sellers that don't accept credit cards through Paypal should clearly state it in their auction, as this is a serious restriction especially for foreign bidders. Non-US bank accounts cannot be used with Paypal, as far as I know.

I know the problems that exist with Paypal, but those are mostly difficulties for sellers who receive money. I've made almost 50 Paypal payments and never had a problem. In fact I couldn't use ebay without Paypal, as money orders or bank transfers cost $8-15 and would make buying a single CD too expensive.

I have also noticed that CD auctions from sellers that don't accept Paypal have lower end prices. Probably because this almost excludes bids from foreign countries.

Today I received great news from my bank: International money transfers to EU countries will cost only 0.75€ from July on. It was 10€ before. Now I can finally bid on CDs on Ebay Germany, where very few sellers accept Paypal.

Edited June 24, 2003 by Claude

[Use3D]

I only used paypal once and it never gave me a problem, but I have no reason to use it ever again.

[Shrdlu]

So, your card had to be changed, too, ghost of miles! My card, which was used with Paypal coincidentally, was used for some bogus purchases last year, and I, too, had to change my card number.

There is a way to change your email address, connoisseur series500. I had the same problem. You add a new email address, which could be a fake one that you make up on the spot. Then, set the newly added address as your "main" email address. Then, delete the one that you really want to remove.

I am certainly going to sever the contact with my checking account after this annoying eBay transaction is over. I just hope that my bank does not want me to have a new account #, as that would force me to get a new set of checks.

I may even quit with eBay. Recent problems have taken all the fun out of it, thanks to all the hackers. I am a "cash on the valvehead" man at heart, anyway.

[Jazzmoose]

Sellers that don't accept credit cards through Paypal should clearly state it in their auction, as this is a serious restriction especially for foreign bidders. Non-US bank accounts cannot be used with Paypal, as far as I know.

I completely agree, Claude. In fact, if I had experienced what Shrdlu went through, I'd probably report the seller to eBay as a Non-Performing Seller. They set the terms; they can't change them after the auction ends.

I don't know; I don't mind having a low-limit credit card tied to PayPal, but I wouldn't want them having access to my bank account.

[Brad]

I've used it for a long time and never had a problem. Changing emails is pretty easy. I sell although not that much and frankly it's easier to take it. Don't have to worry about checks or worrying if I'll get payment. I don't like paying for the fees but hey, nothing is for free. And I'm quite happy that Hiroshi takes it. It's a hassle to go the post office and have to get one of those m.o.s. I remember Tod (Out to Lunch) telling me a few years ago that he had to troop to a few offices before he could find one of those money orders.

It's a great system. Wish I'd bought some of their stock when it first came out.

[chris olivarez]

Glad it worked for you Brad.I used Paypal to buy a shirt once and I went through hell and back in order to complete the purchase and after that I haven't used it since. I concluded that Paypal wasn't my pal.

[JohnS]

I use PayPal for my ebay for international sales. It's always worked for me and I don't mind them taking their pound of flesh for the convenience. When you've had money extracted from a letter as I had recently it's worth it for safety and security.

[Rooster_Ties]

I don't know; I don't mind having a low-limit credit card tied to PayPal, but I wouldn't want them having access to my bank account.

I've used Paypal for probably 50+ transactions over the past two years, with no problems. I've never been able to accept credit card payments from them, because I refuse to give them my bank account numbers.

Little trick that might be good to know. When you first sign-up with their basic "free" account, they give you only a $1,000 spending limit on your credit card. Then, when you get down around $200 or so, they start bombarding you with e-mail saying that you gotta upgrade your account in order to raise your spending limit. Well, I kept spending and got all the way down to a spending limit of less than $100. Shortly after that, my spending limit suddenly was reset back to $1,000 - through no effort on my part. To this day, I still haven't upgraded my account, but I haven't burned through the 2nd "$1,000" credit limit yet, so I don't know if it will happen again. But my guess is that when you get down to less than $100, they bump it back up again - so they don't loose you as a customer.

Anybody have a similar experience, by any chance???

[Shrdlu]

It sounds like several have had problems with Paypal. It's sad, as, in theory, Paypal should be a very convenient way to buy or sell.

Anyway, my CD is now paid for (by the direct deduction from my checking account), and I was also successful in deleting that account from Paypal. I just hope that the details are not stored in their computer, now that I've heard that Paypal was hacked.

One thing that I've noticed since I started buying through eBay in 1999 is that few sellers will now take a check. Back then, I could usually pay with a check, even though my eBay score was very low. I used to offer to let the seller wait until the check cleared if they were worried. Now, I have a score well over 100, with not even any "neutrals", let alone any "negatives", and nobody wants my checks. Why bother with feedback at all? Paypal has effectively neutralized it.

[connoisseur series500]

There is a way to change your email address, connoisseur series500. I had the same problem. You add a new email address, which could be a fake one that you make up on the spot. Then, set the newly added address as your "main" email address. Then, delete the one that you really want to remove.

Tried something similar last year to correct things, but I was unable to do it. If I remember correctly, one problem was that I had no idea what the old email address was! I cannot delete it when I don't know the address. The paypal techies tried to help me via email, but I just found the whole affair a good exercise in raising my blood pressure.

Life is too short to enter the paypal labyrinth. I prefer to be happy and healthy.

[Shrdlu]

Paypal really outdid themselves for being a pain in the neck today!

I am helping a friend who is about to move to a city near to me. This help includes looking at a house that he found to rent, and making the deposit and initial payment to the real estate agent that is handling the rental. My friend decided to send the deposit to me through Paypal - about $1900, to be specific. It arrived at Paypal, and I told them to put the money into my checking account.

Today, I received a very nasty pair of messages from Paypal, pretty well threatening to close my account. The wording was very high-handed and patronizing. They have frozen my account, pending my faxing to them some photo ID and three other forms of verification. In a way, this is reasonable, but the emails were written in lousy English and give a very bad impression. Their stupid website does not give a phone number or email address - all you get is a "round the mulberry bush" of FAQs and similar junk. I have a saying: "Frequently asked questions never are".

It's just as well that a street address is not given, or I would be there with my pickup with the whiplash aerial, "toolbox" and 12 gauge pump.

Once this mess is over, it will be "NEVER AGAIN".

You have been warned.

Oh, and by the way, I was in the middle of an eBay transaction with Paypal when this happened, so now I can't pay that person either.

[shrugs]

How did you tell them to put it in your bank account? I never ask them to do anything. I just click on the button that says Withdraw. I then enter the amount and it takes around 3 working days to get there. Never a problem and if my wife saw how much I have transferred she would kill me.

Some guy at Audio Asylum claimed to have a lot of trouble. He seemed legit and was a manuafacturer or dealer of hi-fi. So I am not saying they are completely trouble-free.

FWIW, changing an e-mail there is pretty simple IMO.

From the website:

Customer Service Center

PayPal Customer Service Agents are available to help you 7 days a week, from 6 A.M. to midnight CST.

Call us toll-free at: 1.888.221.1161

We may only discuss an account with the account-holder. Please have the following information available when you call:

Your telephone number

Your email address

The last 4 digits of your credit card or bank account registered with PayPal

For security reasons, we must verify the above details before discussing any account-specific information.

Edited July 22, 2003 by shrugs

[Shrdlu]

Thanks a lot, Shrugs, especially for the phone number. I could not find that on their website.

I did use the "Withdraw" tab to try to get the funds, and they have the details of my checking account. The problem has been the size of the amount of money. But they did not mind receiving it.

I phoned the number that you gave, and it was rather like their website. A long verbal menu came up, with no suitable options (how often does that happen), but when I get that I just keep punching 0 until I get free of the menu. After about 6 minutes of muzak, I got a lady who courteously told me that there was diddly that they will do until I fax in about five pages of stuff to prove who I am.

I think that all this is a legacy of 9/11. Today, the teller at my bank, who knows me personally, said that there is now a rule that customers must provide a passport as ID for all withdrawals! "But you know me", I said. "Yes", she replied, "but we still require a passport from now on." Next, it will be an ID card with a rectal scan.

Here's a big hole in their argument at the bank. I took my son in to open an account for him. We were told that he could not open an account unless he showed them a passport. So we applied for a passport. The photo had to be witnessed - by the bank lady!! She did not have the IQ to see that this is a circular argument.

Time to play some music, to bring the blood pressure down!

[shrugs]

I think the guy at Audio Asylum had a similar dilemma.

re: 9/11 legacy

Be careful of what you mail. I would not suggest mailing electronics USPS air mail to other countries. If Customs has any doubt, they may deem it dangerous. This equals fines and a trip to where the item is store to pick it up. Or you can abandon it.

[Dmitry]

How do I stop being a PREFERRED MEMBER?

I don't want to take cradit cards any longer. That fee thing is bogus plus I just got scammed out of $25 by them. Sold a cd to a guy who used a stolen card.

Get this - they deducted the money from MY paypal account, like I was an accomplice of his.

Why should I pay for someone who used a stolen card?!!! It's a total rip-off.

Obviously their site is a maze. I couldn't find how to drop the "preferred" status. Preferred by PayPal, it should say...

[shrugs]

I'm not sure how to do that.

There are definitely some ways to get screwed on e-bay. Not only by people using stolen cards. Apparently it's not too hard for someone to reverse charges either. Even if they were told insurance was their responsibility and they chose not to accept. I know that is a different discussion altogether but I know someone who had the charges reversed and it was on an item where the buyer flat out refused insurance and also had the seller mark "broken - for parts only" on the customs form. He had deleted the e-mail where the buyer requested this but was not even sure it would have helped.

I know I am no longer altering customs forms for anything that I wouldn't be able to suck up.

Also, I think Pay Pal's rules state you must have some way to track the package ie Delivery Confirmation or a tracking #.

[Shrdlu]

Here's something nice, after all this.

I mentioned that my PayEnemy problem had interfered with a separate eBay purchase. I emailed the seller, to let him know that I would now have to send a check (remember what those were, anyone?), and he emailed me back and said not to worry and that he had already mailed the item. (Shrugs, you will be pleased to know that it was an LP!)

A breath of fresh air.