chris Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Until this article, I'd never heard of Red Nichols. Can anyone suggest recordings to hear this person who Louis Armstrong said could "blow them all away?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 If you can find it, this one is great! This one is very good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Three great cds! With Red I think you really have to like the music of the twenties and early thirties and be able to cope with the different sonics these present. To my ears his stuff from the forties on up just wasn't quite as exciting to listen to. . . there are a few moments but. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave James Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 As a matter of fact, there's even a movie about Red Nichols. It's called "The Five Pennies". Released in 1959, starring Danny Kaye. Other interesting people in the cast: Louis Armstrong plays himself, Bob Crosby, Bobby Troup, Ray Anthony as Jimmy Dorsey and, get this, Shelly Manny as Dave Tough. I've saw this some years ago. Not bad, as long as you understand just about any biopic made in Hollywood around this time was about 50% BS. Up over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 the movie was fun but had virtually NOTHING accurate about his music or his importance - Nichols was a very fine disciple of Bix, and led extremely important small group recordings in the 1920s (with Arthur Schutt, Miff Mole, et al)- in later years he became something of a dixieland star, but the stuff to listen to is the early stuff - find, also, if you can, the Whiteman version of I'm Coming Virginia (late 1920s) - great arrangement, fine solo. He's no Bix, but he has poise and chops, and those small group recordings are among the most important of the pre-swing era (though you would not know this to read most jazz histories) - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Personally, I don't view him as a Bix disciple. He was pretty "formed" before he would have been able to idolize Bix, and yes he did copy some of the sound perhaps but he was essentiall different. Just how I hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Some overlap with the first one I recommended, but man this is a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Good info. on Nichols in Sudhalter's book, Lost Chords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 The Richard F. Wright Jazz Archive, where I worked for two years, counts the Red Nichols Collection among its holdings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 not a Bix disciple? He had his own sound, a certain military stiffness, but his work was clearly modeled after Bix - who was on record several years before Nichols - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 (edited) It's not true. Red was recorded about the same time as Bix. . not years afterwards. And he had more professional band experience before he was recorded than Bix did. Influenced, yes, particularly phrasing. But a disciple? That is certainly not the word I would choose. Edited May 9, 2005 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 (edited) That Swing Music Series 1929 disc is fine indeed. Even if you are not crazy about Nichols himself, the all star bands that he leads on this disc are powerful enough to carry you through with a big smile: Jack Teagarden, Benny Goodman, Gene Krupa, Pee Wee Russell, Bud Freeman, Dave Tough, Jimmy Dorsey, Glenn Miller... Edited May 9, 2005 by John L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 (edited) I'm in agreement with the positive statements above - I really dig Red Nichols and have heard most of the recordings mentioned above. The arranged segments seem pretty advanced for the time. On a humorous note - Red seems not to have been too popular with the Condon crew. Eddie sends several barbs Red's way in his autobiography "We Called It Music" and Max Kaminsky, while less sarcastic than Eddie, doesn't speak too favorably of Red. The general feeling I get is one a lot of musicians can identify with. They were the guys in the band (and somewhat wild) and Red, in their eyes, was a prick band leader. Edited May 9, 2005 by Harold_Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Red seems to be a fine musician in the shadow of others (as judged by his peers). Since he lived longer and "prospered" he is denigrated. There are positive and negative things to say, BUT as I said he was a fine musician and gave a bunch of (even better) guys gigs. No question he prospered by the death of Bix, but that wasn't his fault. The real "crime" is this disagreement ignores Louis and Jabbo and Bubber (not to mention the Henderson section guys). The "unspoken" deal is still looking for "white guys". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 no question that there are plenty of great and unsung black trumpeters - Jabbo, Miley, etc - but one doesn't need to have Sudhalter's agenda (which I have genuine problems with) to recognize that Red and Miff's small band work is incredibly important, and that Arthur Schutt (pianist) was a major and important talent. I feel the same way about the Original Memphis 5, Eddie Lang, Bill Rank, Fud Livingston (great arranger)and a lot of those guys from the early white bands - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Red and Miff's small band work is incredibly important, and that Arthur Schutt (pianist) was a major and important talent. I feel the same way about the Original Memphis 5, Eddie Lang, Bill Rank, Fud Livingston (great arranger)and a lot of those guys from the early white bands - I think I'd have to know your context for "incredibly important" and "major and important talent" to agree. They were very fine musicians but these words carry a weight I'm not willing to throw around so carelessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 I think those small group recordings set a standard of organization and solo nuance that stands up very well almost 80 years later. They represent, also, a very early and good example of white musicians adapting to jazz and applying their own, and quite convincing, aesthetic - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 They represent, also, a very early and good example of white musicians adapting to jazz and applying their own, and quite convincing, aesthetic - Oh, that context. B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 yes, just like Tristano, Warne Marsh, Lee Konitz - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunky Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 no question that there are plenty of great and unsung black trumpeters - Jabbo, Miley Only heard Jabbo Smith very recently , 1929 sides with his Rhythm Aces, (Decca LP) he displays staggeringly attack and control and IMO far more interesting than what Louis was doing at the time (L.A. 1930 sessions). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolff Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Interesting viewpoints. I'd call it a draw. My reaction to what little Red Nichols I've heard......Holy shit, that guy can blow and everyone else in the band is top notch. Great energy and a very true jazz vibe to it, whatever race they may be. I love the solos for a purity of tone and no nonsense approach. The music as a whole is not my cup for everyday listening. How long did he keep his bands together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 love Jabbo - when I heard him in NYC in the 70's he could still, on a good night, blow some - and he had absolutely the best singing voice I have ever heard in person - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 There were a number of great trumpeters those days. Ruben Reeves always gasses me. Bubber. . . wow. Bubber was something else. I have all the Jabbo I've been able to find. Berigan came along and amazed. Jack Purvis. Johnny Dunn. Wingy Manone. I really enjoy the music of this time period. So fun and full of energy and life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjluke68 Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Odd that with so many Capitol two-fers out there, especially the UK versions with Kay Starr, Louis Prima, Peggy Lee, Les Brown, etc - that there aren't any of Nichols' Capitol sides as two-fers. So after my current project, I've decided to take two of the Nichols' Capitols that I have a burn my own two-fer...!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 (edited) Yeah, I'd like to see Phil Napolean and Wingy Manone Capitol twofers! Edited May 11, 2005 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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