Guest GregM Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 This is a great album; I'm just wondering how good a job Steve Hoffman did with the remaster. Anyone heard it, comments would be appreciated. If not, it's on the way to me now and I'll post my impressions soon. Another one I ordered from Tower during their sale, and it was sitting right there at HES in San Fran. I could have been listening to it for the past 2 weeks. D'oh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 I hadn't realised that it was out. I bought the Sonny Clark one a month ago. The sound is FANTASTIC! Oh and the music, too....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 (edited) You know, the various Time recordings that Max Roach played on (and this is one), are uniformly excellent. Collation of some sort would make for a nice set someday. Interesting how Max followed Bob Shad from Mercury/Emarcy to Time, but not to Mainstream, Shad's next label. Wonder what the story there is? Edited June 24, 2003 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GregM Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 I always thought it was more a coincidence than a story, but you could be on to something. Hoffman does only what his management can license for him--as yet, nothing comprehensive, unfortunately. Just odd material here and there, including some great John Lee Hooker and Lightnin' Hopkins, Zombies and Richie Valens. Oh yes, and of course the Sonny Clark that Stefan mentions. That was a killer release. Inexpensive, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 The Sonny Clark is probably the best-sounding SACD of 50's era jazz in my collection. Wonderful job. The standard CD layer is really a vast improvement on older editions, too. Please post a review about the Turrentine date when you get a chance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GregM Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 The Sonny Clark is probably the best-sounding SACD of 50's era jazz in my collection. Wonderful job. The standard CD layer is really a vast improvement on older editions, too. Please post a review about the Turrentine date when you get a chance! Will do. Which other '50s dates do you have? I have about a dozen or more. Some of them are every bit as good as the Sonny Clark. Have you heard the "Dave Digs Disney" JSACD? That is a stunner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 I only have a few so far...5 BY MONK BY 5, SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS, ART PEPPER MEETS THE RHYTHM SECTION, a couple others. All are Analogue Productions jobs and all are wonderful for sure. But I think the Sonny Clark grabbed me specifically because it was SUCH a huge jump forward in sound from the previous horrible early CD remastering I had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 I've only heard this on a CD player since I don't have an SACD player. To be honest, it sounds bad to me--extreme stereo separation and really dry. OF course, it may sound much better on SACD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davef Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 Just gave my copy a spin - IMO, very good, at least on the SACD player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 (edited) montg - are you referring to the old CD remastering (from late 80's or early 90's) or the CD layer on the hybrid SACD? The old CD did sound horrid, I agree, but I'm surprised you feel that way about the CD layer on the hybrid SACD, if that's what you were commenting on. Maybe to really appreciate how good a job they did with salvaging the sound, you'd have to have heard the old CD! If you have, then certainly we may just disagree on this. B) Edited June 27, 2003 by DrJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GregM Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 "Really dry" is usually one of the best compliments you can give a jazz recording. One thing you don't want is a lot of reverb, i.e., a wet recording. Brittle is another matter. It's my most common complaint about CDs--even good CDs. The soundstage always has this edgy quality like it's frail and if you turn the music up much louder it will all just fall apart. Frankly I don't listen to the CD layer of my SACDs any more. At first I did, for purposes of comparison. It's a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 The Sonny Clark is probably the best-sounding SACD of 50's era jazz in my collection. Not meaning to burst a bubble, but wasn't this recorded in 1960? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 (edited) "Really dry" is usually one of the best compliments you can give a jazz recording. One thing you don't want is a lot of reverb, i.e., a wet recording. Brittle is another matter. It's my most common complaint about CDs--even good CDs. The soundstage always has this edgy quality like it's frail and if you turn the music up much louder it will all just fall apart. Howdy Greg, nice to see you found your way here... To just slightly derail this topic: If you really believe in your statement, how in the holy hell can you defend the Blue Train SACD? It possesses exactly the undesirable characteristics you've just described... Edited June 27, 2003 by Parkertown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Chuck: I'm pretty sure it was January of '59. But that's probably picking a nit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 I was referring to the new hybrid remastered by steve hoffman. Picked it up at redtrumpet a couple of weeks ago. I don't have the old one to compare it to. By "dry" I mean lifeless (if that clarifies anything). There just isn't much presence. I have a comfortable volume on my system and I don't deviate much from it--for this hybrid I have to turn up the volume much higher than I normally do to reach that comfort level..to get some presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GregM Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 (edited) Ah, here we go. Recorded Jan19, 1960, Capitol Studios, NYC. Montg, discs are mastered at different levels. Just because you have to turn up the volume doesn't mean the remaster is dry or lifeless. The KoB SACD is mastered at a very low level, but there's a ton of presence on that disc. I think the Sonny Clark has even more palpability. Parkertown, the Blue Train has no more reverb than other Van Gelder recordings from that era. Like I said, the only time it is even noticeable is in the trombone solos and for brief moments in the trumpet solos. Other than that it's a nonissue. As for the soundstaging, I get none of the brittleness I get with CDs, and I can blast Blue Train very loud for the duration of the SACD without my ears getting fatigued. I tried to do that the other day with a Connoisseur and I couldn't handle it. I had to turn it down. Does BT have as much air and microdetail and gorgeous palpability as the best SACDs? Unfortunately not. I suspect there may be 24-bit PCM in its geneology. But it sounds great on my system and it's a keeper. I've played it at least 8 times so far, trying to convince myself that it's too bright, too top heavy, too smeared, too wet. . .and I just keep hearing a very tight, linear presentation with a deep, convincing soundstage. People railed on the Getz/Gilberto too, and that one sounds wonderful. Edited June 27, 2003 by GregM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 I suspect there may be 24-bit PCM in its geneology. I've played it at least 8 times so far, trying to convince myself that it's too bright, too top heavy, too smeared, too wet. . .and I just keep hearing a very tight, linear presentation with a deep, convincing soundstage. People railed on the Getz/Gilberto too, and that one sounds wonderful. Hmmm, having PCM in the chain would maybe explain a lot. Like Rudy didn't quite "start from scratch". That's seems a shame if true. I sure love the ALS by Rudy though! One of the best. (except for that chopped ending) I'll give it some more spins; haven't given it as many as you have yet. Agree that Getz/Gilberto is incredible in it's presence. A favorite. Must also spin the Sonny Clark Trio more as that one has yet to really make an impression on me. Okay, resume thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn·m Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 --for this hybrid I have to turn up the volume much higher than I normally do to reach that comfort level..to get some presence. Hmm… I may have to pick this one up. It sounds like you’re describing some healthy dynamic range, and I do like me that range! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GregM Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 You don't have the Sonny Clark yet? Come on, man--what are you waiting for. I thought you were one of Steve Hoffman's strongest admirers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn·m Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 That’s funny! This may be my first exposure to his work. Even so, I can’t help but love the man’s effort to preserve and restore dynamic range (by reputation, anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GregM Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 (edited) WOW!!! This is the real stuff. I'm listening to it now and I've heard all I need to hear to give this a *very* strong recommendation. I have never heard Horace Parlan finger poppin like THIS. Unfortunately, nothing is engineered to the middle of the soundstage. Steve is a stickler for remastering it as it originally was released--apparently with every single instrument hard panned all the way to one speaker or the other. Frankly, the imaging on Blue Train is more convincing where the three horn line is assembled side-by-side center stage. Here the three horns are all the way to the right of the stage with a big gap between them and the rhythm section--but I'm not complaining. Edited June 28, 2003 by GregM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 A stereo mix with nothing in the middle can indeed sound odd. But on the previous CD issues of "Blue Train" piano and bass are in the middle of the soundstage, the horns being in the left channel and the drums in the right (the latter not hard panned). I find this more convincing than the SACD mix wich sounds almost mono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted June 29, 2003 Report Share Posted June 29, 2003 , nothing is engineered to the middle of the soundstage. Steve is a stickler for remastering it as it originally was released--apparently with every single instrument hard panned all the way to one speaker or the other. This is what I meant to say (you said it better) when I said there was a wide stereo spread. It sounds horrible to me...you've basically got the rhythm section crammed into one speaker and the soloist popping out of the other, with nothing in between. It's bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alankin Posted July 12, 2003 Report Share Posted July 12, 2003 Ah, here we go. Recorded Jan19, 1960, Capitol Studios, NYC. Wait a minute, I seem to have January 1959 as the date for the Sonny Clark. Didn't I read somewhere that the 1960 date was wrong? In any case, the CD layer on this one sounds great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man with the Golden Arm Posted July 12, 2003 Report Share Posted July 12, 2003 You are correct according to Steve Hoffman who discusses the dates, 1/6/59, here with some sticklers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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