connoisseur series500 Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Vote now for the greatest NFL quarterback. I've voted already and will reveal my selection later. Vote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 (edited) A toss-up between Marino and Unitas. Though I voted for Marino. Bradshaw comes in 3rd. Another thing, Otto Graham belongs on that list more than a good many of the others. I would take him over these guys. Bart Starr Roger Staubach Joe Montana John Elway Steve Young Fran Tarkenton The most overrated of this bunch would be Starr-not sure how he became so big outside of Green Bay. Elway-without Davis he would be remembered for being the loser Bradshaw correctly called him. Tarkenton Edited June 27, 2003 by Mnytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 (edited) Both Fouts and Namath belong on that list as well. I would take them over the same bunch I would take Graham over. Come to think of it Y.A. Tittle belongs on there as well. Special mention of old school QB's Sid Luckman and Sammy Baugh!! The best of their generation. Edited June 27, 2003 by Mnytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 As a Baltimore fan, I voted for Johnny Unitas. As Mnytime voted for Dan Marino, I guess that means Joe Montana was your choice Conn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 (edited) Unitas was amazing, but the reason I went with Marino over Unitas is Marino was able to do all he did without any RB attack worth talking about and one of the worst defenses every year. That and he only had decent WR's during the first few years with Duper and Clayton. No one would have ever heard of Montana if he had to play with that. As Young and now Garcia have shown you won't skip a beat plugging in a QB to that system as long as they were accurate. The reason the 49ers won so much had more to do with their defense. Each year they won the Super Bowl their defense I believe was no worse than 4th or 5th. I believe once or twice it was #1 in the NFL. Can only imagine what Marino would have done with a defense even in the top 10. They had to score huge points just to have a chance to win. Another thing with Miami is you knew they had to pass almost every play to even stay in the game. Both Baltimore and the 49ers had excellent running attacks. Marino and Rice would have been illegal. The only other HOF player from the Dolphins that played with Marino will be Dwight Stephenson. Both Unitas and Montana played with much better players on both sides of the ball. Montana is fine as long as he only has to play in a West Coast offense. Edited June 27, 2003 by Mnytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Personally, I think that anyone on the list other than Unitas, Graham and Montana are simply space fillers. I went with Unitas only because I'm old, but not that old... Mnytime, Csonka is in the Hall of Fame, isn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 By the way, if the choice is "most entertaining", give me Fran Tarkington! What a show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 I grew up in SF, mostly in the 1980s. The Niners started winning just after I started caring about the local teams. You'll never get me to be objective about this. Montana was the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted June 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Yeah, Montana was my pick. He was a winner and to me had the greatest quarterback smarts I've ever seen in a player. Mnytime's comments are interesting and are noted. He makes some excellent points. I cannot, however, agree with Dan Marino over Montana. Oops forgot Fouts. Yeah, he's better than Tarkenton. Graham, Baugh and Tittle were before my time. Yes, Starr was a weak addition to the list. No one voting for Favre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 I picked Bradshaw, but could have gone Marino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Bradshaw was a tough dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted June 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 He was also a winner. That alone should rank him high. Had a great crew to work with though. Brett Favre makes my top 3 or 4 as well. He's an amazing quarterback with a killer instinct. I would definitely rate him above, say John Elway or Dan Marino. His one weakness is a tendency to gamble, but that's also part of his greatness as well. He's the greatest quarterback still active, though I could have included Kurt Warner in the poll as well. No slouch he! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajf67 Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 I voted for Unitas. Marino would be my number 2. I agree that Bradshaw also deserves a high ranking. The guy was a real leader and always came up big in the biggest games. He had one of the best teams around him, true, but when the chips were on the table he delivered. I could watch him throw to Swann and Stallworth all day long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed S Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 There should have been a poll to see who should have been in the poll I voted for Unitas. I'd take Bradshaw, Favre and Jim Kelly over Marino in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Voted for Montana but as a Jets and AFL fan, no Namath? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 I guess I'm a bit too young to understand why Namath is considered to have been such a great quarterback. His career stats are very mediocre. From the numbers, it looks to me like he had one great game at just the right time. Anyone care to set me straight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 (edited) I guess I'm a bit too young to understand why Namath is considered to have been such a great quarterback. His career stats are very mediocre. From the numbers, it looks to me like he had one great game at just the right time. Anyone care to set me straight? His numbers didn't live up to what they should have been because of his knees. It was because of Namath that the AFL and NFL became one league. He was the first QB to throw for 4,000 in a season. When you think of Namath you have to think about him the way people think of Gale Sayers. With healthy knees he would had Unitas and Marino type of numbers. Csonka is in the HOF but he was playing during the Bob Griese era way before Marino. Montana is only successful in a West Coast offense that allows him to hide how weak his arm was. It's all short to intermediate passes that is based on timing. There is a reason that the Pro Bowl teams for the NFC were filled with 49ers players every year. A great QB can be successful in any offense. When people talk about Unitas or Marino no one mentions their offense. When people think of Montana they all think of West Coast offense. Kelly as long as he was in the K Gun Hurry Up Offense was fine. Anytime they went to a conventional huddle offense the offense bogged down and they lost. This is one of the reasons they lost the Super Bowls. They could never eat up enough time off the clock because of their offense. If anyone where to look a the names of the skill positions that Marino had to play with outside of Clayton and Duper it would be a "Who The Hell is That List" or "How The Hell Did He Put Up Those #'s with that." The 49er's won Super Bowls because of their Defense. Kurt Warner is another system QB surrounded by excellent talent. As Mark Bugler (sp) showed last year just like Young and Garcia have shown after Montana. It's about the offense and the talent level around them with those QB's. I believe both Young and Garcia have put up better numbers than Montana in terms of QB ratings. Does anyone consider Garcia someone anyone will be talking about as one of the best QB's ever? Does anyone really believe anyone would be talking about Montana today if he had the level of talent around him that Marino did? I think at most Marino had maybe one RB in his career with the Dolphins that gained 1000 yards in a season and that happened once. In the meantime Montana had Craig, Rathman, Floyd, etc... Craig was not only gaining a 1000 yds rushing but receiving 1000 yds as well. I should point out that QB was my position So if there is one position in football that I know well it's QB. Edited June 27, 2003 by Mnytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Mnytime, I think you're confusing "greatest passer" with "greatest quarterback". Marino was a great passer, but he was no Joe Montana as a quarterback. The quarterback's job is to move the offense, get the ball into the endzone, and win games. Montana did that better than anyone, ESPECIALLY when the pressure was on. I don't understand how you can qualify his accomplishments based on what type of offense he played in. That was the system Walsh set up, so Joe didn't HAVE to make a lot of throws like Dan Marino. The 49ers did have great defenses, but without Montana they wouldn't have won so many Super Bowls. Joe's arm wasn't "weak". He didn't have a gun like Elway or Marino, but Joe could throw the long ball (accurately) just fine. Skill. Timing. Instinct. Tenacity. Leadership. 3 Super Bowl MVP's. I'm not sure what more you want from the guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 (edited) Mnytime, I think you're confusing "greatest passer" with "greatest quarterback". Marino was a great passer, but he was no Joe Montana as a quarterback. The quarterback's job is to move the offense, get the ball into the endzone, and win games. Montana did that better than anyone, ESPECIALLY when the pressure was on. I don't understand how you can qualify his accomplishments based on what type of offense he played in. That was the system Walsh set up, so Joe didn't HAVE to make a lot of throws like Dan Marino. The 49ers did have great defenses, but without Montana they wouldn't have won so many Super Bowls. Joe's arm wasn't "weak". He didn't have a gun like Elway or Marino, but Joe could throw the long ball (accurately) just fine. Skill. Timing. Instinct. Tenacity. Leadership. 3 Super Bowl MVP's. I'm not sure what more you want from the guy...  No I am not confusing anything. That was the offense Walsh set up to fit Montana skills. You take Montana out of that offense and put him in any other offense and no one is talking about him today. There is a reason that when he went to the Chiefs they changed the entire offense for him. Instead of making one person learn a new offense they had the entire team and coaches have to learn the West Coast offense. It's a whole lot easier to move the offense when you are playing with Pro Bowler's and future HOF's. It's also a lot easier to compete in pressure when you know you have the better defense so if you do make a mistake your defense can keep it from biting you in the ass. You put Marino in Montana's offense and he is just as successful. You do the same and it won't work because Montana's arm is not strong enough to run Marino's offense. And he can't carry an entire team that way Marino had to with the Dolphins since he didn't have the level of talent around him that Montana did. Edited June 27, 2003 by Mnytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 (edited) By the way, I am not saying Montana was not a great QB or wasn't great under pressure but he was in the perfect situation. A system made for him and an embarrasment of talent on both offense and defense to support him. The team winning didn't have to depend on him and him alone as it did with Marino. And once again both Young and Garcia have done even better in terms of QB ratings. Are you going to say Young and Garcia are better than Montana? Hell that offense even made Bono and Elvis look great. Edited June 27, 2003 by Mnytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Mnytime, I think you make far too many assumptions (about the importance of Montana's team-mates; about what Dan Marino would have done in Montana's shoes; the importance of quarterback ratings; the strengh of someone's arm; etc). I don't think I'm going to convince you of anything, so I'll just stand by my previous comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 (edited) Mnytime, I think you make far too many assumptions (about the importance of Montana's team-mates; about what Dan Marino would have done in Montana's shoes; the importance of quarterback ratings; the strengh of someone's arm; etc). I don't think I'm going to convince you of anything, so I'll just stand by my previous comments. We are just going to have to agree to disagree. But the 49ers have replaced Montana several times now and not missed a beat including winning a Super Bowl. Edited June 27, 2003 by Mnytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 We are just going to have to agree to disagree. But the 49ers have replaced Montana several times now and not missed a beat including winning a Super Bowl. "Haven't missed a beat"... Joe has FOUR rings. There's been ONE championship, for a great franchise, since Joe left. Thanks for helping to clarify the real point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 (edited) We are just going to have to agree to disagree. But the 49ers have replaced Montana several times now and not missed a beat including winning a Super Bowl. "Haven't missed a beat"... Joe has FOUR rings. There's been ONE championship, for a great franchise, since Joe left. Thanks for helping to clarify the real point! Which has more to do with the 49ers ownership change and the wallet strings being closed more than Joe no longer being there. Also, the NFL salary cap has changed things in the NFL. They 49ers would not have been able to do what they did for so long with the Cap in place. They also haven't had the defense that they had when Joe was there. The point is they still won a Championship without him and the guy that replaced him put up better numbers doing it. In every Super Bowl win the 49ers were in they were the team with the better defense, which is why they won. In fact in the majority of Super Bowls the team with the higher ranked defense wins. As the last few Super Bowls have shown clearly you don't need even a good QB anymore to win a Super Bowl as long as you have the better defense. Every time Joe went up against the team with a better defense the 49ers and Chiefs lost in the Playoffs. Defense wins Championships. One more thing how many Super Bowls did Joe win with KC again? Edited June 27, 2003 by Mnytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 What, no Jim Hart? Well, then I have to go to Montana, even as an old man with KC, you just expected him to pull victories out of his ass, which he did some of the time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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