Guest akanalog Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 i recently purchaed marion brown's "why not?" on ESP. now i hear it is coming out with a bonus track or two. the same thing happened with sun ra's "nothing is". there are a number of other ESP titles i have been eyeing but should i hold off? i mean they are all pretty darn short so adding some tracks would make them more reasonable and who knows what is in the ESP vaults. do people think it is silly to be buying older issue ESPs right now. and when i saw old i mean the last batch which aren't old at all. i mean it could be lame too like how they just stuck the frank wright stuff together and it seems like a good set but a good potion of it is interviews which i can do without or at least i have no urge to be paying for. are the ESP reissues going to come hot and heavy? or is this an initial burst right now which will be followed by much inactivity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 As far as I know, it's going to be steady and sure reissuing of the back catalog, occasionally with unissued cuts and/or interviews. The Wright interviews are cool - c'mon, man, they're a piece of history! Besides, they aren't very expensive. One thing is for sure, and that's that these are completely authorized reissues and the artists and recordings are being treated respectfully. The Marion Brown set will contain both LPs plus some bonus material, as I understand it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Just noticed this on the ESP website: ESP has begun to convert its catalog to surround sound dvd, utilizing a proprietary system called SONATURE (www.sonature.com). The first titles to become available on dvd will be Albert Ayler (Spiritual Unity, Bells, Spirits Rejoice, and a previously unissued cd and dvd of the concert at the Maeght Foundation), and Sun Ra's Heliocentric Worlds vols 1 and 2, Nothing Is, and previously unissued material. Patty Waters and the Pearls Before Swine (both One Nation Underground and Balaklava) will also be converted to surround sound. No other details of these or regular CD reissues that I could see... Don't know how regularly they update the site though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmirBagachelles Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 ESP is some great sh!t no doubt, but comes with some real baggage in terms of unhappy and ripped off artists. So what is the basis for the assertion that these newest ESPs are "completely authorized"? (If so, I can't imagine the whole catalog is now legit by the artists.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 The artists, as I understand it, weren't ripped off - they were paid a small amount for recording, with small royalties against what sold, as with most independent labels. Apparently, some major distributors did rip off ESP by altering sales to 'lost shipments' and consequently some royalties were lost that way. There are some people like Sunny Murray who clamor on and on about getting ripped off because his lone session as a leader was a "gold record in Japan" (Japanese ESPs were, in fact, unlicensed) but of the artists I've spoken with about ESP, most felt that it was a solid opportunity to record that launched many a career. I've spoken at length with Stollman, and both credit and pay are going where they are due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmirBagachelles Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Thanks. If you're Stollman, perpetuity is good. And if you're Sunny, it's not. What a crock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Thanks. If you're Stollman, perpetuity is good. And if you're Sunny, it's not. What a crock. ← I'm with Mr Thornton on this one. Stollman was a bad businessman, not a bad person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 (edited) From the sound quality standpoint, I have recent Spiritual Unity ESP reissue and the one issued by Calibre (in red cardboard slipcase, now OOP) in early 00s. Both sound good, but I like Calibre version more. Regarding Bernard "ripping off" poor creative musicians, this is pretty ridiculous. The guy got broke himself trying to push this music. Just because musicians didn't make any money on ESP releases does not necesserily mean that Bernard did. Is it such a revelation that nobody makes any money in creative music "business"? Following the "rip off" logics, Bernard can just as well demand pay off from musicians for losing money promoting their releases. The fact that he is now paying royalties to musicians is more of an act of good will than legal necessity (I am pretty sure there were no contracts signed, and the masters are in his full property). Edited December 15, 2005 by Д.Д. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmirBagachelles Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I retract, sorry. I tend to get a easily overheated on issues of ownership of intellectual property rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Glad to see Bernard Stollman get some recognition for what he did for the ESP musicians. When the Ayler Brothers were in New York at the time of the 'Spirits Rejoice' session back in 1965, Stollman housed them in his (his parents' actually) apartment. Don't think many record producers did that back then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Yup, that's 180 Riverside Drive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 A beautiful apartment with a very nice view of the river! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 I used to live on Riverside Drive, but my view wasn't so great... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 For December: Patty Waters complete recordings (liners by yours truly, in addition to Mr. Stollman) and Ayler Slugs' Saloon 2CD (with notes by John Kruth). Archival photos and clean mastering, both in my hands as I type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Interesting recent interview with Stollman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Interesting recent interview with Stollman. That Clifford fella is everywhere! Good stuff. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 For December: Ayler Slugs' Saloon 2CD Oo! This is good news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Interesting recent interview with Stollman. That Clifford fella is everywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 the article mentioned ornette was on the cover of TIME-- when exactly was that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 I'm pretty sure there was a Time cover analagous to the Friedlander photo on The Shape of Jazz to Come from around 1960. I have seen this referred to before talking to Stollman, though I wish I could corroborate it with an exact issue (unless it's not Time but another magazine). Guess that's my job as a researcher, but I have too much other shit to contend with this week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Clem is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny E Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 The artists, as I understand it, weren't ripped off - they were paid a small amount for recording, with small royalties against what sold, as with most independent labels. Apparently, some major distributors did rip off ESP by altering sales to 'lost shipments' and consequently some royalties were lost that way. There are some people like Sunny Murray who clamor on and on about getting ripped off because his lone session as a leader was a "gold record in Japan" (Japanese ESPs were, in fact, unlicensed) but of the artists I've spoken with about ESP, most felt that it was a solid opportunity to record that launched many a career. I've spoken at length with Stollman, and both credit and pay are going where they are due. Sunny Murray has a number of records out as leader (3 on BYG alone). Also, I'm wondering about the money Stollman made by licensing the ESP stuff out. Some of the Japanese reissues were not legitimate, but I'm almost sure the German ones (ZYX) were. When I've talked to James Zitro, Sonny Simmons and Bert Wilson they've all said they have never seen one cent in reissue revenue. Of course, I have yet to read that interview with Stollman that Д.Д. posted, so if these issues got addressed in there, please excuse me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 TIME, wonderful magazine that it is ( ) has a neat feture on their website that allows you perform a cover search. HERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 No time to write the details but y'all need to understand the economics of this music. Someone should prompt me in the future. I can only say in one example, I paid the artist $3500, spent another $4000 to issue the recording, sold 900 at $3.50 (lps) for a return of $3150 - with no consideration for promos (300), the mailing costs or my time. Then I spent another $4000 to get a cd out there in the "new marketplace", sold another few hundred and I'm the bad guy. Not attempting a defense of ESP but, in some instances, no good deed goes unpunished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny E Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 I hear ya' Chuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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