ESP

[clifford_thornton]

The artists, as I understand it, weren't ripped off - they were paid a small amount for recording, with small royalties against what sold, as with most independent labels. Apparently, some major distributors did rip off ESP by altering sales to 'lost shipments' and consequently some royalties were lost that way. There are some people like Sunny Murray who clamor on and on about getting ripped off because his lone session as a leader was a "gold record in Japan" (Japanese ESPs were, in fact, unlicensed) but of the artists I've spoken with about ESP, most felt that it was a solid opportunity to record that launched many a career.

I've spoken at length with Stollman, and both credit and pay are going where they are due.

Sunny Murray has a number of records out as leader (3 on BYG alone). Also, I'm wondering about the money Stollman made by licensing the ESP stuff out. Some of the Japanese reissues were not legitimate, but I'm almost sure the German ones (ZYX) were. When I've talked to James Zitro, Sonny Simmons and Bert Wilson they've all said they have never seen one cent in reissue revenue. Of course, I have yet to read that interview with Stollman that Д.Д. posted, so if these issues got addressed in there, please excuse me.

But Sunny has only one ESP - in context, that is what I meant. The ZYX label did not pay Stollman anything other than a small chunk of money up front, without paying royalties. Without those coming in, obviously the subjects of the reissues wouldn't have been paid. All of this is discussed in the interview.

As for Time Magazine, I suppose it is possible that it was an "article" rather than "on the cover." Now maybe someone could be helpful in amending this - and I mean genuinely helpful, not steering in the direction of Flaubert or any other heavily-opiated wandering surrealists.

Thanks,

CT

[StormP]

What a buch of BS from Sonature.com.

We all know that sound goes in one ear and out the other.

I have never had the courage to go to a Ornette Coleman concert or to hear SunRa Arkestra (help!).

[clifford_thornton]

dude, yr a little young & prone too a few too many mistakes to flout your arrogance & ig'nance like that tho' it's interesting you feel compelled to do so... i laid some DEEP fucking wisdom on you, as it was laid upon me years ago by some good folks in Tejas (during the great years of oil bust & weirdos still walked Travis County). if you are too foolish to follow, well... stick around long enough & you can get in-state tuition at UT for Library School and you won't waste our "time" w/yr foolishness. ignore the Flaubert at your own peril, monsieur "researcher." WHY you would want to do so is way beyond poor moi but maybe you know better? yeah.

xxc

texas ex-

Listen man, I am not disagreeing with you - I would just prefer something to answer the question at hand, like whether this was insanity on Stollman's part or whether there was a major mainstream news article anywhere on Coleman around 1960. It would help, but picking at inconsistencies on my part doesn't help the question get answered, nor does claiming my philosophical ignorance help me, or anybody else on the board. We are all good at making one another look like asses around here, hence my original response, so it would be nice to redirect it to something helpful.

Of course I don't know - but I am genuinely curious if someone around here could help by suggesting exactly what should go in place of the passage in question in the Stollman interview. I'm happy to alter it with something more concrete. OK?

[ep1str0phy]

dude, yr a little young & prone too a few too many mistakes to flout your arrogance & ig'nance like that tho' it's interesting you feel compelled to do so... i laid some DEEP fucking wisdom on you, as it was laid upon me years ago by some good folks in Tejas (during the great years of oil bust & weirdos still walked Travis County). if you are too foolish to follow, well... stick around long enough & you can get in-state tuition at UT for Library School and you won't waste our "time" w/yr foolishness. ignore the Flaubert at your own peril, monsieur "researcher." WHY you would want to do so is way beyond poor moi but maybe you know better? yeah.

xxc

texas ex-

Listen man, I am not disagreeing with you - I would just prefer something to answer the question at hand, like whether this was insanity on Stollman's part or whether there was a major mainstream news article anywhere on Coleman around 1960. It would help, but picking at inconsistencies on my part doesn't help the question get answered, nor does claiming my philosophical ignorance help me, or anybody else on the board. We are all good at making one another look like asses around here, hence my original response, so it would be nice to redirect it to something helpful.

Of course I don't know - but I am genuinely curious if someone around here could help by suggesting exactly what should go in place of the passage in question in the Stollman interview. I'm happy to alter it with something more concrete. OK?

Well, there's this thing:

Ornette

-A little past 1960, though.

[clifford_thornton]

Thanks; I found a Time article from mid-1960, though not a cover story.

Y'all please forgive me for referencing any of my own work on this board. Let it never happen again.

[Tony Pusey]

Um, just came to this thread, Cliff, Flaubert was not a member of the Surrealist movement. And as for heavily opiated and wandering? well I prefer like wandering priests of wine, and I guess Clem could point you in the direction of where that came from!

S.A.S.D.L.R.

Edited December 17, 2005 by Tony Pusey

[Guest Chaney]

Thanks; I found a Time article from mid-1960, though not a cover story.

Y'all please forgive me for referencing any of my own work on this board. Let it never happen again.

clifford_thornton: Please don't mistake the opinion and thoughts of a very few carpers for that of the many. I greatly enjoyed your ESP piece and you darned well better feel free to reference you work in the future. (Really very few of us are into making others feel like crap.)

Words to live by: ALWAYS consider the source.

[7/4]

What a buch of BS from Sonature.com.

We all know that sound goes in one ear and out the other.

I have never had the courage to go to a Ornette Coleman concert or to hear SunRa Arkestra (help!).

You should do something about that.