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JSngry

Why I Stay Pissed

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Wow! I guess those of us in West Michigan are lucky as hell to have Lazaro and Blue Lake Public radio!

Highlights from the June 2005 Listener Program Guide:

Anthony Braxton, woodwinds/bandleader

Grachan Moncur III, trombone

Tal Farlow, guitar

Bill Watrous, trombone

Lucky Thompson, tenor/soprano saxophone

Eric Dolphy, woodwinds

:tup:cool:

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Wow!  I guess those of us in West Michigan are lucky as hell to have Lazaro and Blue Lake Public radio!

Highlights from the June 2005 Listener Program Guide:

Anthony Braxton, woodwinds/bandleader

Grachan Moncur III, trombone

Tal Farlow, guitar

Bill Watrous, trombone

Lucky Thompson, tenor/soprano saxophone

Eric Dolphy, woodwinds

:tup  :cool:

Yep... I listen to Lazaro on the web all the time.

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There should be an Ornette statue in Fort Worth.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, hardly ANYone in Fort Worth knows (or even gives a rats ass) who Ornette is. Hell, the closing of the Caravan of Dreams was proof of that.

Dammit, this is what pisses me off about living in this cultural wasteland that is DFW: when Ornette dies, I just know his obit will be regulated to a blurb in the Overnight section. If he’s lucky, that is. If this were a fair and sane world, his birthday would be declared Ornette Coleman Day, a prominent street in Fort Worth’s formidable arts district would be named for Ornette, and just maybe a statue prominently displayed in Sundance Square.

Right. Like THAT’ll happen.

Still haven’t received any response to my e-mail to KNTU. Guess they really are away from their computers.

Totally agree with Brandon about having Ornette in the Texas Museum. Maybe they’re waiting for him to be dead like Red.

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Yes, this is sad indeed...

I had a show on KNTU - 8-10 every Mon-Fri nite

in 76 and 77 and the people following afterwards,

Larry Roark (RIP) and Caroline - we all would fight over

our personal stash of new outside things to play.

We all wanted to borrow for our shows something the other person had!

Nowadays, there's no more creativity and wonderment inside radio.

Soon, I hope, we'll all, potentially, have our own "radio shows" in

which you trade IP broadcast addresses and you'll be tuning in to your friends

show on your car or home "radio" (computer, more than likely).

Gotta look ahead...

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Hey man, Ornette might have COME from Ft. Worth. But it is about one of the most culturally desolate places on earth. Go down to the Ft. Worth Stockyards or Billy Bob's Texas and you'll see what FW is all about. Rednecks and more rednecks. Heck, they think a bad blues-rock band is high culture. :g

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apropos of Soul Stream's comments on Dallas/Fort Worth -

What do Ornette Coleman, John Carter, Bobby Bradford, Dewey Reman and Charles Moffett have in common?

all from Fort Worth (Bradford from Dallas, but close enough)

What else do Ornette, John, Bobby, Dewey and Charles have in common?

They all left DFW.

Edited by charlesp

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Here's the problem. On KNTU's site it says:

The managerial staff of KTCU is currently on "Summer Break" and will be returning fall 2005.

Eh? The managerial "staff" all went on summer break? Nice work if you can get it... or should I invoke a less "out" tune?

Not uncommon at student-run stations. At WHRB, they run automated loops almost all summer long. Lately people have been getting lazy and just been reusing old loops from previous holiday breaks.

(Fortunately, I think I put Organissimo on one of those old loops, so it's quite possible that Joe, Jim, and Randy are in heavy rotation all summer.)

Edited by Big Wheel

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Hey man, Ornette might have COME from Ft. Worth.  But it is about one of the most culturally desolate places on earth.  Go down to the Ft. Worth Stockyards or Billy Bob's Texas and you'll see what FW is all about.  Rednecks and more rednecks.  Heck, they think a bad blues-rock band is high culture. :g

Only partially true, my man! Granted, Fort Worth is redneck central, but that ain't all it's known for. Fort Worth has quite an arts district, one that Dallas only dreams of having. The Kimball Art Museum is there, and that's one of the most prestigious art museums in the country. There is a lovely botanical gardens which not only contains a wonderful Japanese garden, but also hosts outdoor summer concerts every year, with fireworks displays that are almost literally out of this world.

The Fort Worth Zoo puts the Dallas Zoo to shame in terms of cleanliness and attractiveness. And that whole neighborhood is jammed with antique houses.

Then you have Sundance Square, which is fine, but when you consider no one down there thought much of the passing of Caravan of Dreams (and put up a snooty two-star-masquerading-as-four-star restaurant in its place), that knocks it down quite a few notches. However, the atmosphere in that area is infinitely more inviting on a weekend evening than Dallas ever was. West End doesn't even come close.

Having said that, though, it's not for nothing that George Strait wrote "Does Fort Worth Ever Cross Your Mind?" :blush:

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Here's the problem. On KNTU's site it says:

The managerial staff of KTCU is currently on "Summer Break" and will be returning fall 2005.

Eh? The managerial "staff" all went on summer break? Nice work if you can get it... or should I invoke a less "out" tune?

Not uncommon at student-run stations. At WHRB, they run automated loops almost all summer long. Lately people have been getting lazy and just been reusing old loops from previous holiday breaks.

(Fortunately, I think I put Organissimo on one of those old loops, so it's quite possible that Joe, Jim, and Randy are in heavy rotation all summer.)

Organissimo in very heavy rotation is a good idea. The rest of it isn't.

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Yup!

Houston

Ft.Worth

Dallas

in that order.

---

Now playing: Anthony Braxton & Lauren Newton - Composition 192 (for two musicians & constructed environment)

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Why I Stay Pissed, More Often Than Not... my toothpaste is freezing up. :(

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This thread makes me want to play Rova's electric version of "Ascension" Wednesday at midnight "Out On Blue Lake." I've played some of it and, woo hoo dadaroo, this shit is OUT. I think the parts where the strings improvise could be anything, not just "Ascension" but any improvised setting, though the rest of it is an evolution....

Who knows. Right now I'm featuring Jimmy Mundy arrangements.

www.bluelake.org

Every weeknight, Saturday morning, early Sunday evening, jazz which comes to you in the best of taste from Blue Lake. See you in the heliocentric world of cyber space....

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I don't disagree, but Fort Worth is where I've seen the most live jazz--mostly thanks to the Caravan of Dreams--Ornette Coleman, Stan Getz, Art Blakey, Max Roach, Sun Ra, Freddie Hubbard, Woody Shaw, Dewey Redman, Charles Moffett, Ronald Shannon Jackson. James Blood Ulmer, David Newman, McCoy Tyner, Ahmad Jamal, Pharoah Sanders, Art Ensemble of Chicago, Mingus Dynasty, Horace Silver, Jack DeJohnette, David Murray, Bobby Hutcherson, Tony Williams, Joe Henderson, Benny Carter, etc.

Hey man, Ornette might have COME from Ft. Worth.  But it is about one of the most culturally desolate places on earth.  Go down to the Ft. Worth Stockyards or Billy Bob's Texas and you'll see what FW is all about.  Rednecks and more rednecks.  Heck, they think a bad blues-rock band is high culture. :g

Only partially true, my man! Granted, Fort Worth is redneck central, but that ain't all it's known for. Fort Worth has quite an arts district, one that Dallas only dreams of having. The Kimball Art Museum is there, and that's one of the most prestigious art museums in the country. There is a lovely botanical gardens which not only contains a wonderful Japanese garden, but also hosts outdoor summer concerts every year, with fireworks displays that are almost literally out of this world.

The Fort Worth Zoo puts the Dallas Zoo to shame in terms of cleanliness and attractiveness. And that whole neighborhood is jammed with antique houses.

Then you have Sundance Square, which is fine, but when you consider no one down there thought much of the passing of Caravan of Dreams (and put up a snooty two-star-masquerading-as-four-star restaurant in its place), that knocks it down quite a few notches. However, the atmosphere in that area is infinitely more inviting on a weekend evening than Dallas ever was. West End doesn't even come close.

Having said that, though, it's not for nothing that George Strait wrote "Does Fort Worth Ever Cross Your Mind?" :blush:

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I don't disagree, but Fort Worth is where I've seen the most live jazz--mostly thanks to the Caravan of Dreams--Ornette Coleman, Stan Getz, Art Blakey, Max Roach, Sun Ra, Freddie Hubbard, Woody Shaw, Dewey Redman, Charles Moffett, Ronald Shannon Jackson. James Blood Ulmer, David Newman, McCoy Tyner, Ahmad Jamal, Pharoah Sanders, Art Ensemble of Chicago, Mingus Dynasty, Horace Silver, Jack DeJohnette, David Murray, Bobby Hutcherson, Tony Williams, Joe Henderson, Benny Carter, etc. 

Ahhhh, for a return to the good old daze..... -_-

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Yes Caravan of Dreams was great....but it was but a blip on the radar screen I dare say. How it ever happened I'll never know. I true anomoly. To my knowledge Ft. Worth does not now, or ever has had in at least the last 25 years....a jazz club (even Caravan wasn't that, although they brought great jazz acts in.)

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I am a little confused - the MD at KNTU is female and a student herself. Who did you talk to?

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The Caravan happened because one of the billionaire Bass brothers financed it, the same fellow who financed the Biosphere "experiment." The group of people who ran it initially (as I recall, the "leader" went under the name of Johnny Dolphin) did not appear to have a sincere passion for jazz, as I rarely observed any of them listening to the music. I think they just thought it was rebellious or daring to open a jazz and arts center in Fort Worth. And the Caravan was in fact a jazz and blues club from its opening in 1983 until about 1989 or so, booking top jazz and blues acts for three or four night runs almost every week during its first several years. (I should know, they almost wore me out driving from Dallas to Fort Worth and back, especially during the first several years.) In the late 1980s, jazz bookings became less frequent (until almost nonexistent in the 1990s until it closed). In its first few years, with a dazzling array of talent booked, great sound, a comfortable setting, usually easily obtained great seats (I usually just walked in and sat in the front row), and even pretty inexpensive, it was the finest jazz club I've ever been to, next to the Village Vanguard.

Yes Caravan of Dreams was great....but it was but a blip on the radar screen I dare say.  How it ever happened I'll never know.  I true anomoly.  To my knowledge Ft. Worth does not now, or ever has had in at least the last 25 years....a jazz club (even Caravan wasn't that, although they brought great jazz acts in.)

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I'd take it a step above Music Director and speak to the GM.  Not only is the programming philosophy wrong, but the treatment of the listener is outrageous, and at minimum, the GM should call him on the carpet for it.

I am confused, the MD at KNTU is female. Who did you speak with again? In terms of their programming philosophy, here is what their Top 50 playlist over the last 7 days currently looks like. They play a LOT of current stuff, which is rare for jazz radio. Whether they play the right new stuff if for you to decide. I don't listen to this station, so I don't know what their mix or on-air presentation sounds like so I can't comment one way or another.

But I do know one thing - unfortunately, if you don't or haven't pledged you don't have much of a say in the matter. This goes for all public radio.

gps

14 Arturo Sandoval Live At The Blue Note Half Note 2005 18 14 +4 Line Graph

1 15 Brian Lynch 24/7 Nagel Heyer 2005 18 13 +5 Line Graph

3 1 Ron Blake Sonic Tonic Mack Avenue 2005 17 19 -2 Line Graph

3 9 John Scofield That's What I Say: The Music of Ray Charles Verve 2005 17 15 +2 Line Graph

5 3 Curtis Fuller Keep It Simple Savant 2005 16 17 -1 Line Graph

5 7 Sonny Stitt Work Done HighNote 2005 16 16 0 Line Graph

5 9 Jo Ann Daugherty Range Of Motion BluJazz 2005 16 15 +1 Line Graph

5 15 David Hazeltine Modern Standards Sharp Nine 2004 16 13 +3 Line Graph

9 2 Bill Cunliffe Imaginacion Torii 2005 15 18 -3 Line Graph

9 3 John Goldman In Walked Pierre BluJazz 2005 15 17 -2 Line Graph

9 3 Paul Grabowsky Tales Of Time & Space Sanctuary 2005 15 17 -2 Line Graph

9 7 Kenny Wheeler What Now? Cam Jazz 2005 15 16 -1 Line Graph

9 9 Joe Lovano Joyous Encounter Blue Note 2005 15 15 0 Line Graph

9 9 Vic Juris A Second Look Mel Bay 2005 15 15 0 Line Graph

9 20 Miguel Zenon Jibaro Marsalis / Rounder 2005 15 11 +4 Line Graph

16 3 Jim Payne Energie Savant 2005 14 17 -3 Line Graph

16 31 Beaux J Poo Boo All Things Are New Summit 2005 14 7 +7 Line Graph

16 51 Rosario Giuliani More Than Ever Dreyfus 2004 14 4 +10 Line Graph

19 26 Terry Gibbs Feelin' Good: Live In Studio Mack Avenue 2005 13 8 +5 Line Graph

19 91 Benny Lackner Trio Not The Same Nagel Heyer 2004 13 0 +13 Line Graph

21 19 Gary Burton Next Generation Concord 2005 12 12 0 Line Graph

21 26 Luciana Souza Duos II Sunnyside Communications 2005 12 8 +4 Line Graph

23 20 Joshua Redman Elastic Band Momentum Nonesuch 2005 11 11 0 Line Graph

23 25 Marc Pompe Nobody Else But Me Self Released 1997 11 10 +1 Line Graph

25 20 Doug Wamble Bluestate Marsalis / Rounder 2005 10 11 -1 Line Graph

25 20 Guillermo Klein Una Nave Sunnyside 2005 10 11 -1 Line Graph

27 9 Marian McPartland & Friends 85 Candles - Live In New York Jazzzdog Promotions / Concord 2005 9 15 -6 Line Graph

27 15 John Ellis One Foot In The Swamp Hyena 2005 9 13 -4 Line Graph

27 15 Kurt Rosenwinkel Deep Song Verve 2005 9 13 -4 Line Graph

27 66 Bill Charlap Plays George Gershwin: The American Soul Blue Note 2005 9 2 +7 Line Graph

31 60 Sean Jones Gemini Mack Avenue 2005 8 3 +5 Line Graph

31 66 David Gibson The Path To Delphi Nagel Heyer 2005 8 2 +6 Line Graph

33 26 Ravi Coltrane In Flux Savoy Jazz 2005 6 8 -2 Line Graph

33 31 John David Webster Made To Shine Word 2005 6 7 -1 Line Graph

33 36 Avishai Cohen At Home Razdaz / Sunnyside 2005 6 6 0 Line Graph

33 43 Bireli Lagrene Move Dreyfus Jazz 2005 6 5 +1 Line Graph

37 26 Bebo Norman Try Brentwood 2004 5 8 -3 Line Graph

37 31 SFJazz Collective SFJazz Collective Nonesuch 2005 5 7 -2 Line Graph

37 36 Monty Alexander Live At The Iridium Telarc 2005 5 6 -1 Line Graph

37 36 Nichole Nordeman Brave [single] Sparrow 2005 5 6 -1 Line Graph

37 51 Ted Nash & Odeon La Espada De La Noche Palmetto 2005 5 4 +1 Line Graph

37 51 Various Artists Blue Note Perfect Takes Blue Note 2005 5 4 +1 Line Graph

37 66 Paul Colman Let It Go Inpop 2005 5 2 +3 Line Graph

44 20 Babatunde Lea Suite Unseen: Summoner Of The Ghost Motema 2005 4 11 -7 Line Graph

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I spoke with "Mark". I was told that he was Music Director.

Whoever he is, he's got the authority to take albums out of the studio that he doesn't want DJs to play,

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I spoke with "Mark". I was told that he was Music Director.

Whoever he is, he's got the authority to take albums out of the studio that he doesn't want DJs to play,

ah, he's the Program Director. He's been there for years, oversees the students on-air.

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But I do know one thing - unfortunately, if you don't or haven't pledged you don't have much of a say in the matter. This goes for all public radio.

gps

I'm a perennial supporter (with pledges) of public radio, for what it's worth. I do it because I think it's the right thing to do, but I'm not at all sure that really gives me any more of a voice than anyone else though (nor am I sure that people who don't pledge basically should feel they have to "put up or shut up").

In fact I'm sure my contributions don't give me any more clout than non-pledgers. How are the two connected? It's not like when I send in my pledge check I get to pick the play list for one of the local station's jazz shows, heck they don't even ask me for my opinions on what should be played.

Edited by DrJ

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This is exactly right. The station does their thing - if you like what they do, you support them; if you don't (or if you're a cheapskate freeloader) you don't. If you really don't like what they do, you don't listen.

I had an interaction with the program director of WBGO a few years ago (I was described by some present as having "fired both barrels"). He claimed the state of jazz radio in the NYC area was just fine, I disputed this since WBGO has become an intentionally homogenized station that has policies against playing music from before 1950 and anything "too out". How could this be a good thing? Well, it turns out that "good" means quite a different thing than I had imagined. I was told, "The goal of a radio station is to gain listeners" - not to present a balanced representation of the artform, not to make the serious fans happy - just to gain listeners. Quantity, not quality. Because that's what you take to the funding folks to get your money. Numbers.

In the end, I came to the conclusion that our fundamental positions are so diametrically opposed that argument is useless.

Mike

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I spoke with "Mark". I was told that he was Music Director.

Whoever he is, he's got the authority to take albums out of the studio that he doesn't want DJs to play,

ah, he's the Program Director. He's been there for years, oversees the students on-air.

And he's on the air right now, taking your jazz requests at 940-565-3688!

(btw - that's not a "secret" number, so no harm in posting it.)

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But I do know one thing - unfortunately, if you don't or haven't pledged you don't have much of a say in the matter. This goes for all public radio.

gps

I'm a perennial supporter (with pledges) of public radio, for what it's worth. I do it because I think it's the right thing to do, but I'm not at all sure that really gives me any more of a voice than anyone else though (nor am I sure that people who don't pledge basically should feel they have to "put up or shut up").

In fact I'm sure my contributions don't give me any more clout than non-pledgers. How are the two connected? It's not like when I send in my pledge check I get to pick the play list for one of the local station's jazz shows, heck they don't even ask me for my opinions on what should be played.

Very well-put, DrJ. At my station we do ask people who call to pledge what their favorite program is--and we do notice if a particular program hasn't done well during fund-drive for several years in a row. Even such a poor performance, though, has never led us (as far as I know) to outright kill a program.

Another way of looking at it is that Jsngry, you, and all others have already made a contribution, however small, through the use of CPB tax dollars (the funds we just had the big fight over in Congress). Not that I want to discourage anybody from pledging--far from it! :D We truly do need listener support. (CPB funds account for about 10-15% of most stations' budgets.) But to say that anybody who doesn't pledge has no right to offer input about programming is not just poor manners--it's also just plain wrong.

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"The goal of a radio station is to gain listeners" - not to present a balanced representation of the artform, not to make the serious fans happy - just to gain listeners. Quantity, not quality. Because that's what you take to the funding folks to get your money. Numbers.

Ideally, public radio-particularly those stations affiliated with Universities--should be about EDUCATION. Stretching boundaries, presenting alternatives. Instead it has simply become a corporate entity (albeit one with government subsidies). Unfortunately, the corporate mentality pervades universities today. Don't expect to find much avante garde or countercultural thinking at most universities (in the classroom or on the air).

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