Soul Stream Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Picked this CD up yesterday. Have to say it is a pretty big dissappointment. It's culled from a live set at the Blue Note...yet...there's only FIVE tunes on it (and no, they're not particularly long either.) And what is on there is pretty scattered thematically. A horrible version by Blood Ulmer of Howlin' Wolf's "Lilttle Red Rooster" seques into R. Kelly's "I Believe I Could Fly"...uggg. Lot's of avant blowing too with James trying to impress Hamiett it seems, but it just doesn't go all that well with the organ backing. Patton's "Understanding" is a 100% success in this...so it CAN work. Anyway, taking this disc back to the store today for a refund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Hmmm... is it just me, or is Carter still trying to live up to his early promise? I liked CHASIN' THE GYPSY quite a lot--thought the Baker's release a bit of a letdown. I'm rooting for him, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Hmmm... is it just me, or is Carter still trying to live up to his early promise? I liked CHASIN' THE GYPSY quite a lot--thought the Baker's release a bit of a letdown. I'm rooting for him, though. ← A lot of respect for what Carter is trying to do....seemingly break away from the pack. However, in my VERY limited knowledge of him...it comes off kind of gimmicky for whatever reasons or "forceabley" different. Of course, I really shouldn't judge, don't know a lot about him. Got a version of him doing Laura with Lonnie Smith in which he is absolutely amazing. Still, I'm partial to guys like Eric Alexander. The organ records on which he is a part of always sound great to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 For James Carter, I would say that these four are the best I've heard: Layin' in the Cut Chasing' the Gypsy Live at Baker's Lounge What Spirit Say (sideman with Ronald Shannon Jackson). I haven't heard the one you mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 (edited) I guess I'm not so much saying that Carter isn't a good player as...this isn't a good record. I got the feeling with only 5 tunes...and a LIVE album no less...that they didn't have enough useable material to choose from. And considering what they did choose, well it's not all that great. The OPEN with a ballad. That kind of says it all. Edited June 30, 2005 by Soul Stream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montg Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 I've only got one Carter CD, Carterian Fashion, but my reaction is similar--the pyrotechnic displays tend to get in the way rather than illuminate or edify. But, like Ghost, I'm rooting for him. In the meantime, I'll stick with the Lockjaw cookbook CDs with Shirley Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 For what it is worth, Carter has been performing with his organ trio for a couple of years now, so they should have enough material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 That even makes me more mad they only put 5 songs on this. For 16 bucks no less.... Blue Note could barely get away with that in the LP era. For what you have to shell out these days for a new major label jazz release, there's got to be more of an effort imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonF Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 I mostly agree with SS's assessment. There are 6 tracks on the CD I have and all but one of the tracks range between 10 and 16 minutes. Blood's Red Rooster is about 5. That one didn't bother me so much but ditto on the "ugg" for I Believe I Can Fly. I like Carter's The Real Quietstorm from about ten years ago. Pretty tame compared to Out Of Nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 For those of you who have heard the story, Carter is the Young Bull at the top of the hill looking down on the pasture full of cows. Problem is, there ain't that many Old Bulls left to tell him what he needs to hear. Still, in the overpopulated field of "really talented and promisng cats who would be a lot better if they had come up in the days when they'd have gotten their asses kicked more harder and more often that they could even dream about today", Carter remains my favorite. I like his spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 (edited) Agreed. I saw this trio live some months ago and thought Carter was going a little to much for the show than for musical content. He needs top notch company and be challenged to play his best. Gerard Gibbs is an excellent organist, but he too made more of a show than serious jazz, always keeping an eye on the girls in the first row. The drummer could be better be smoking a little less funny stuff .... Edited January 7, 2008 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 (edited) I mostly agree with SS's assessment. There are 6 tracks on the CD I have and all but one of the tracks range between 10 and 16 minutes. Blood's Red Rooster is about 5. That one didn't bother me so much but ditto on the "ugg" for I Believe I Can Fly. I like Carter's The Real Quietstorm from about ten years ago. Pretty tame compared to Out Of Nowhere. ← Yes, I have to apologize. There are 6 tracks and they are almost all 10 plus minutes each. So, time-wise, I guess the CD does fit into the usual minutes for a CD. Sorry about that, my mistake. However, guess I was just Fast Forwarding so much, the CD just SEEMED shorter. . Anyway, I already returned it to the store and exchanged it for James Brown's "Sex Machine" and "The Payback" CDs. Much more enjoyable. . When I made the return, the clerk asked "What, no love for James Carter." "Not on this one at least" I replied. Also, interesting to hear a report about this band live. That's the feeling I got from the CD, not much content to the performances...a lot of show. And that's coming from someone who really doesn't mind that as long as it's honest. But emotional honesty or authenticity didn't come across to me at least. Thought the organist was in the Groove Holmes mold but didn't reach me, although he's probably a good player. Edited June 30, 2005 by Soul Stream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonF Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 However, guess I was just Fast Forwarding so much, the CD just SEEMED shorter. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Thought the organist was in the Groove Holmes mold but didn't reach me, although he's probably a good player. ← Gerard was taught by Groove Holmes, so good call there! He is a great organist, but I have not heard this CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 (edited) Thought the organist was in the Groove Holmes mold but didn't reach me, although he's probably a good player. ← Gerard was taught by Groove Holmes, so good call there! He is a great organist, but I have not heard this CD. ← He doesn't actually get a lot of solo space on the CD from my admittedly brief encounter with it. Recall he did some very nice stuff on "Out Of Nowhere" though. Got the feeling he'd rather be playing modern R&B or smooth jazz. However, factor in that I WISH I was good enough to be playing with James Carter at the Blue Note. It was an odd mix of styles....Groove holmesian organ, Avant sax and blood ulmer (avant blues guy) playing R Kelly tunes.... Plus the recording of the organ was bad. Distorted overall and unclear in the low end. Should have gone direct for the bass and some of the top at least. He was driving it a little too hard to mic the whole caboose imho. Be interested to hear some other's take on the CD. Don't want to dissuade anyone from picking it up. Be your own judge. Edited June 30, 2005 by Soul Stream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe M Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 I don't buy the common line about JC that he's simply a great talent waiting to find his voice or maturity. He's been on the scene for well over a decade now, and face it, he is what he is, like it or not. Those who proclaimed him to be the next great one, well, it wasn't the first time and it won't be the last that they were wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 rumor has james has a new one coming with reginald veal, cyrus chestnut, and ali jackson. get this: its all covers of pavement tunes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 rumor has james has a new one coming with reginald veal, cyrus chestnut, and ali jackson. get this: its all covers of pavement tunes ← Uggg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinuta Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 'JC On The Set ' is still his best cd imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 He doesn't actually get a lot of solo space on the CD from my admittedly brief encounter with it. Recall he did some very nice stuff on "Out Of Nowhere" though. Got the feeling he'd rather be playing modern R&B or smooth jazz. However, factor in that I WISH I was good enough to be playing with James Carter at the Blue Note. It was an odd mix of styles....Groove holmesian organ, Avant sax and blood ulmer (avant blues guy) playing R Kelly tunes.... He played long solos on the gig I attended, but repeated himseld after a while, using the same showy tricks all the time. The groove was there, but as it was a concert type situation with the audience calmly sitting down, they should have opted for a higher level of musical content. I saw them on TV two weeks later in a broadcast from one of Germany's most populat and long-standing jazz festivals - basically, same thing. Carter and Gibbs have more in the can than this. I expect fun and showmanship and groove, which I got, but from a guy with such an abundance of talent at his disposal like James Carter, I expect a little more. Maybe he feels pissed off by the labels - Warner acted strange, left the duo with Chestnut (which is good!) in the can, and the Lady Day tribute on Columbia seemed to be a one shot deal. Yes, he seems to be meandering around searching for a direction - maybe the road experience will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 rumor has james has a new one coming with reginald veal, cyrus chestnut, and ali jackson. get this: its all covers of pavement tunes ← Carter/Pavement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 I don't buy the common line about JC that he's simply a great talent waiting to find his voice or maturity. He's been on the scene for well over a decade now, and face it, he is what he is, like it or not. Those who proclaimed him to be the next great one, well, it wasn't the first time and it won't be the last that they were wrong. ← You might be right... I've had inklings along this line as well. Early on, a musician friend of mine called him "the modern-day Illinois Jacquet--and I don't mean that as an insult." But I still feel as if he's ultimately capable of delivering more than he has so far. I enjoy much of what he's done to date. I'm more inclined to agree with Jim that in some ways he's a man out of time. In any event, I'm going to keep listening to him. I don't know if there will be any more "great ones." Not by old-school standards, anyway. Braxton is the youngest one left, IMO, and he just turned 60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzmessenger Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 I love all of his recordings (that I have). IMO, "Chasin' the Gypsy" is his best. At least it is my favorite. I am eager to listen to his organ trio recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 I am sorry to hear the disappointment with this one. I haven't heard it yet. I really liked Layin' in the Cut, and was hoping that this would be something a bit similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinlps Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 I picked this up in Atlanta last week and thouroughly enjoyed it until... 1 - I Believe I Can Fly 2 - I got home and *really* listened to it Maybe, I liked it because... - It was better in the rental car fighting through Atlanta traffic than local music stations - it was better than the litany of high school football sports talk shows on the radio... High School Football!?!?!?!? WTF? - I'm a sucker for dueling bari's - I'm a big Bluiett fan On 2nd listen at home, it really isn't that good, average at best. If I had remembered it this morning, I would have traded it in for something else this afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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