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BFT 27 - DISC ONE DISCUSSION

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The goods are in to at least one distributor, so here we go!

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The goods are in to at least one distributor, so here we go!

Hey Jim:

You must be a charter member of the "eclecticians" union because I would be hard pressed to find a more varied mix of music than you have put together. I have to listen a few more times but here are some cursory thoughts on a number of the 17 tracks on this disc:

1) Bright bouncy version of the "national anthem" , can't ID the organ but very swinging.

4) Definitely Rollins in concert, circa late '70s or so I would guess. Not my favorite period of the master but let's not get into that stale controversy again.

5) This sounds like a parody of the early Brubeck-Desmond quartet on the standard "Gone With the Wind". Doesn't make it for me musically except as parody, I'm afraid.

6) Obviously improvising on "The Man I Love", the track is evocative of the JATP of the late '40s. Could be Charlie Shavers on tpt, Willie Smith (?) alto, can't ID the guitar.

8) This vocalist doesn't make it for me at all. Give me Ivy Anderson, please. Is that some late period Shepp on tenor?

9) "Everything's Coming Up Roses". Bright orchestral treatment, but NMCOT.

11) Love this Randy Weston tune, xylophone (not vibes) I believe. Pleasant, that's about it.

15) Sounds like Turrentine on the warhorse "Time After Time". If so, I'd guess Shirley Scott on organ. I'm afraid I'm not too swift on ID' g organ players (or guitar players for that matter).

17) Other than trying to stump us on these vocalists, I'm trying to grasp what you see (hear) in them.

It was fun, I'm sure Big Al is having a lot more fun.

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You must be a charter member of the "eclecticians" union because I would be hard pressed to find a more varied mix of music than you have put together.

Oh, you should've heard the first one I did. This one's homogenized by comparison!

Really, I had narrowed down what tunes I was going to include to about 500 or so :g , but then when it came down to the actula moment of recording, ended up using only about 7 or 8 of them, I'm guessing. Why" Circumstances, I suppose, that and my natural improvisational nature.

I began recording the discs at about 3:30 AM on a Sunday morning, when the house was dark and quiet, and when "marital relations" had me feeling calm and contented (too much information, I know). So most of the really "difficult" and possibly "controversial" stuff went forgotten as the vibe of the moment took over.

There was, however, a fair amount of whimsy in the selections, as well as in the sequencing. How well that conveys itself, if indeed it does at all, remains to be seen and is, of course, highly subjective anway.

Other than trying to stump us on these vocalists, I'm trying to grasp what you see (hear) in them.

I'm either "love" or "hate" with singers as a rule, but that one's easy - I dig singers, perhaps more than the average jazz fan. Maybe it's the musician in me, but I really dig hearing how singers deal with phrasing, nuances of enunciation, and interpretation of lyrics. Gives us horn playeers pause for consideration when we get to thinking about our music in purely technical terms, gives us "another way" to approach our instrumemts. Plus, a singer can be really successful at creating a mood, since they've got the advantage of the lyrics. What more direct way to "tell a story"?

So, I guess you could say that I like these particular singers on these particular numbers for the vibe they create, which is a vibe that most instrumentalists can't create, not exactly (although they can certainly enhance it!). Not necessarily a "better" vibe, just a "different" one, and one which I dig. But that's just for certain singers. Others drive me from the room screaming and reaching for firearms! :g

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Oh yeah - on Track 8, it's not the singer's date, and the ID of the altoist sort of ties the whole track together, both on its own terms and in context of the album on which it appears. This album may very well be her only recording, and I think it's safe to say that the altoist is only slightly more familiar, although there are those here who will not be unfamiliar with him.

She's definitely got more feel than chops :g but I dig her vibe.

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May I suggest that we hold off posting answers until most of the people who enlisted get a chance to hear the BFT 27 discs!

Most of the discs are still in the mail...

That track 8 seems indeed to be the only side recorded by the singer. Great idea to include it just so that people can listen to the alto player who has not appeared on that many albums!

I'm sure people will get kicks out of listening to the two discs. Jim obviously had fun putting out those compilations!

Happy to hear so many of my favorite musicians included in the lot.

That track 11 was a total surprise! Did not know that the musician had recorded this!

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I'd like to leave the posting of responses up to the individual. If somebody already has the discs and finds their personal situation such that this weekend will be the only time in the foreseeable future that they can either post, or post as in-depth as they'd like, then I'm certainly ok with that. If, otoh, they'd prefer to wait a few days until most everybody's got the discs, I'm ok with that too. I just don't want to create a barrier to the fullest possible participation, that's all. Either way is fine with me.

As for the altoist on #8, yes, recordings by him are scarce after a certain period. And I think he plays magnificently here, much more maturely, adventurously, and personally than on his earlier recordings. In fact, as you guessed, his presence and playing on this cut is the reason for its inclusion. But the album from which it is taken is one that I think is so far a "lost gem" as far as CD issue goes!

As for #11, well, nothing that guy played surprises me any more!

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But the album from which it is taken is one that I think is so far a "lost gem" as far as CD issue goes!

Didn't realise it was not released on CD!

You seem to have used some vinyls for the compilation. Track 4 has several scratches! Puzzled by that one which sounds so obvious. That second saxophone player intrigues me!

As for me, I'll just enjoy the disc and post when most of the people have had the chance to do likewise!

Thanks again for all the music!

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You're welcome!

Yes, much vinyl used, often because the material's not available otherwise!

But also, I'm not a compulsive "upgrader" (I'll do it for bonus cuts or if my LP is totally ploughed, but otherwise, no...), nor a real stickler for a totally quiet surface on LPs. I mean, yeah, I prefer it, but if I can get a fairly quiet LP outta the used bins for $3.99, I'm all over it, ya' know? Especially if it's of an album that I'd rather use the CD price to buy something else with. Such is the case w/Track 4 - that cut and one other totally kick ass, but the rest of the album's not so hot. So I hold what I got. Now, replacing such an LP with a used CD, that's another matter altogether. I'm such a bottom-feeder...

Now, as for Track 8, it might've been released on CD in Japan or Europe. But I have no knowledge of it having been. Would be nice if it has been!

Oh, btw - you definitely know at least two of the players on Track 4!

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Track #2 is vinyl only, also, if this discography is to be believed.

I'm enjoying this track quite a bit but, so far, it's my wife's favorite track on the BFT. She loves this one, if it is indeed the track I linked to.

Edited by John B

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So the song has personal relevance to your life then, eh? :g

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Jim, I have located my vinyl of track 11 which I had not played since years!

Can't locate the album from which track 6 is located.

To save me hours of searching for it, could you just confirm that the nominal leader of this one is the same person as the leader of the album from which you extracted that track 11? I'm 99 percent sure that they are the same!

Will be back on this thread in a couple of days.

Digging into disc 2 which is more mysterious!

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Jim, I have located my vinyl of track 11 which I had not played since years!

Can't locate the album from which track 6 is located.

To save me hours of searching for it, could you just confirm that the nominal leader of this one is the same person as the leader of the album from which you extracted that track 11? I'm 99 percent sure that they are the same!

Confirmed!

But I'm a little surprised - Track 11 has been a lot more common Track 6!

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1: A steamin’ “How High the Moon”: I thought initially just an organ trio but then there’s some horns with a nice written-out melody. The 1st tenor sounds oddly choppy & gets into a few wrong turns; he really sticks out given how fluid the guitarist, 2nd tenor & organist are. There are many Jimmy Smithisms in the organ but I don’t think it’s actually him (not quite aggressive/lavish enough), just his pervasive influence on the instrument.

2: Good lord. I hope that’s not who I think it is singing....

3: No idea who it is! Can’t think of much to say about it really.

4: I forget the name of this tune. Darn odd tenor solo with the hoarse, frowsy tone & wandering phrasing which seems to get glued to the same note occasionally for a while. Reminds me at times of Ari Brown’s work on Braxton’s Charlie Parker album. Now the trombone soloist sounds crisper & much more familiar but I can’t place him. No idea who the tenor/soprano doubler is either. Somewhat messy live track but a nice vibe.

5: “Gone with the Wind”. There must be some funny reason why this is on here.... obviously a piss-take of some kind (of West Coast jazz??). Plenty of bum notes on here & awful soloing, & you even hear a “whoops!” at one point. The pianist also goes off on a weird Brubeckian tangent at one point. Love that canned applause at the end. My 7-yr-old daughter said at the end “What was that?”

6: a stomping “Man I Love”. Probably players I should know, & the knowledgeable members of Organissimo who can i.d. swing-era players will probably nail this one.... Hm, the (excellent) electric guitar is a surprise. I get the feeling these aren't necessarily players who usually woudl be playing together, maybe a festival jam or something. Neat piano solo too, which has some Tristanoesque touches, even though the harmonic stuff seems a bit too calculated & tacked-on. Pity about the fade. Late 1940s probably.

7: I love that wobble in the arrangement that ends up as the vamp at the end (not even sure what instrument it is that's doing the wobble--I think electric bass?), & the nifty switch between 12 & 8. No idea who this is, but a good, very imaginative track.

8: I dunno, Abbey Lincoln? Some Holidayesque singer anyway. Weird to have the competing obliggatists here, & it doesn't really work here, not least because they're mixed more forward than the singer, so much so they sound overdubbed (I guess in part because of the stereo separation). Somehow this one gives me a bit of a headache. Weird how the alto player contributes the identical false note toward the end of the head at the start AND at the end. (Wrong: it's the tenor, circa 2:00, 3:50, 4:30 & in the last moments of the piece. Listening to this 2nd time round, I wonder if it's someone like Charles McPherson on the Bird-like alto?)

9: Yikes, one of those grab-you-by-the-scruff-of-the-neck big-band charts. I forget the name of the tune. Eddie Lockjaw Davis surely on tenor. I wish he got more of a chance to solo. I don't like the chart at all, complete with the banal little piano cadence at the end.

10: more modern big-band sound with a very Jackie McLeanish alto--but I don't think Jackie ever did a big band date so I'm positive it's not him. Nice way of easing into the solo. Again, not a chart I really like much, but I warm to this track a lot more than the previous one anyway.

11: "Hi-Fly" with a vibraphonist who uses very tight vibrato, not sure who it is. The pianist will be someone like Hank Jones, though he's so far it's so far back in the mix I can't make it out clearly. Pleasant enough but it's short & not a lot happens.

12: This saxophonist sounds familiar but it's an odd mix. Like Paul Gonsalves playing over a modern post-McTyner rhythm section!

13: No way I'm guessing at this one!

14: Let's boogie! I'm not going to be trying "mountain oysters" anytime soon, though..... Nice enough tenor solo, though I must confess I couldn't tell it apart from countless other tenor sax breaks in this kind of tune.

15: I forget the name of the tune (which they've stretched out by doubling every bar, I think)--I have it on a Sonny Criss disc I think but the CD is in my daughter's bedroom right now so I can't check. Hm, maybe Clifford Jordan, but I don't really know. (I guessed Jordan for a track on #2 & now am sure I got that wrong...) A nice track, not one that really gets me eating out of the palm of its hand but I liked it. Is that really an organ or just some electric piano imitating it? (Or is it just missing the Leslie?) Maybe it's just the Criss link but the tenor's phrasing reminds me of Criss a bit too.

16: No comment...!

17: No idea who this is--does she always sing like this? That'd make my throat hurt! Despite the poignance of the lyric & the fact the pianist is giving of his(?) best, I don't have a big response to this one either way.

Edited by Nate Dorward

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Thanks to Guy for sending this my way, and to Jim for putting it together obviously with a lot of thought. Only had time to listen to it once all the way through, so these are really initial impressions - don't do much guessing, cause I'm bound to get most of them wrong.

Track 1: "How High the Moon," of course, taken at a fast clip. Ironically (considering the board) I have a pretty high ignorance of organ players. But maybe Kenny Burrell on guitar? Smoking groove: I really dig the unison lines near the end, trading bars with the drummer. I need more of this kind of thing in my collection.

Track 2: Okay, it's clear who it is, obviously, but not even close to anything I've heard from him before. So I'm guessing "cheesecake" is a double entendre I've never heard?

Track 3: I really like the bari player's vibe here, but not tons else for me to go on: something about being a fatso? From all the cheesecake?

Track 4: Sounds like latter day Sonny a bit, but almost too gruff in parts. Don't know if it's just the quality of the recording, but the rhythm section sounds a little disjointed and sloppy. Seems like with the kind of thematic development going on here it's someone who listens to a lot of Rollins. I don't like the guitar, but the band really seems to get it together as things go on: the alto solo is a particular highlight.

Track 5: Aggravatingly familiar alto palyer - can't put my finger on it, but I love the sliding in and out of notes, the pithy twist-off of certain phrases. Sounds like the MJQ minus Jackson in the trio section, that restrained but swinging classical elegance. I know the tune too, but can't name it off the top of my head.

Track 6: Strong swing-era background with more modern influences. Big Charlie Christian fan on guitar. I feel like the changes are familiar. I love loose jam sessions like this. The time period is really hard to pin down here, and that stylistic ambiguity is probably my favorite element. Don't like the fade out.

Track 7: Okay, now we're up in the rock/R&B era, obviously. This has a wicked "come hither" expression written all over it; not everyone can pull off this vibe so well. Oh shit - I love that bass groove about 3 minutes in: kind of in n out, nahmean? Humpty dance, jazz style.

Track 8: The conflicting saxes really don't do it for me. I would need to hear the singer on her own. Like an Ellington songbook with too much to drink. The alto solo is really excellent.

Track 9: Ooohhh... I dig the chart here. Serious energy. Basie-ite economy in the rhythm section, with total swinging abandon on top. And it sounds like Lockjaw flying over it all, so I'll stick with that guess. Maybe Thad Jones on flugelhorn? Okay this sounds a little too modern for even New Testament Basie, but maybe a tribute: wish it was longer!

Track 10: Sounds like movie scorish type writing here from the 70's. Love the flexibility of the rhythm section, the different feelings they get into. Reminds me of some suave cat walking down the street tipping his hat to all the foxy ladies: very swinging stuff. Not much else to add.

Track 11: Oh nice, "Hi Fly," right? Interesting instrumentation on it, too.

Track 12: Big Tyner influence here - maybe it's just the waltz tempo, but reminds me of the Coltrane quartet stuff, and the way they could kill those ballads. Why can't I name the tenor player though? Such a memorable tone.

Track 13: Is that a celeste? Is "hmmm..." an acceptable response?

Track 14: Boogie blues shuffle, baby. Guess you were hungry when you put this together: cheesecake and R.M. Oysters? No thanks. Meat that got no bone - nasty, dude, seriously. Like the tenor player though.

Track 15: That's weird, sounds like a mix of organ and keyboard, maybe it's just his really light touch. Is that Stanley Turrentine? That's my guess. One of those tracks I don't have much to say about but that is perfect lying in bed smoking a cigarette to. Thank you Mr. T: probably my favorite track on this disc. Just so hard to get this vibe just right. Absolutely my favorite track.

Track 16: Mercifully short. Sorry.

Track 17: Beautiful duet: love the breathless suspense of this one. That's real emotional honesty there.

Okay, in defense of my ignorance and not very informative responses, I wrote these notes last night after a six pack of Japanese beer and a pint of cheap brown rum. I'm on to listening to disc 2, which is fascinating so far. Thanks again to Jim: always an awesome selection and a fair share of bona fide gems in there. Coolest part is I'm sure I have none of this in my collection, so it will be good for used LP hunting. :party::party:

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TRACK 2 MAY BE THE DOPEST **** I'VE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE!!!!

:rofl:

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Wondeful responses so far, and more than a few correct guesses, whether intentionally or not (sometimes first impressions are correct, btw ;) !

I suspect that Mike Weil will be the first to nail Track 3... :w:w:w

The fade in (and out) on Track 6 was my doing, and was done solely for time consideration. So, any and all displeasure/disappointment with it is entirely on me.

Interesting to hear the varied responses to the various singers.

And I'd like to suggest paying close attention the the tenor player on Track 14. ;)

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TRACK 2 MAY BE THE DOPEST **** I'VE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE!!!!

:rofl:

No ****! :g:g:g:g

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Oh yeah - the lyric on Track 3 is "Oye mi saxons, que ritmo tienes.", which translates to "Listen to my saxophones, what rhythm they have!", a sentiment with which I fully concur.

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And I'd like to suggest paying close attention the the tenor player on Track 14. ;)

I feel okay adding to this thread if Mr. Sangrey himself has added something to it. :P I listened closely a couple more times to this one, based on the clue, and I'd have to go with Lockjaw again, even though I already guessed him on an earlier track. If I'm right on that, I'd have to stick to my earlier impression of "I like the tenor."

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What's not to like, eh? ;)

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Thanks Jim - I'm diggin' ALL of it and having a blast doing so. I listened to both discs today and I'll be doing some posting...

Some preliminaries:

1 - HHTM organ groove - not really sure but I'm leaning towards McDuff and George Benson on this. The light "arranging" is the type of thing that McDuff did well and the guitar could be early George. Not sure about the Tenor, but the production values sure indicate one take Prestige attitudes. Let small fluffs go.

Who care ?! The feeling is there!

2- I thought I had heard most of the Pops around, but I NEVER heard this one! It's a hoot ! It's latter day Pops judging and I'm pretty sure that's Tyree Glenn on bone. That sound.

I'll be back later with more.

Edited by Harold_Z

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Continuation from my post above -

3 - don't know but it grooves.

4- Kinda sounds like Sonny but ....not quite.

5- Tongue in cheek . Did he take the horn apart ?

6- TMIL. This really has that JATP vibe to it. I don't think the trumpet is Roy ( I thought so at first) but then he got on that bridge and got kinda...florid..kinda maybe Harry Jamesish almost. I'm thinkin' Charlie Shavers.

The Drummer played four on the bass drum, but I couldn't get a handle on him..I don't think it was Buddy or Officer Krupke.

The Tenor playing behind the trumpet really sounded Hawkish, but the solo didn't sound like Hawk to me. Flip Phillips ?

Edited by Harold_Z

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No tenor solo on #6, and the drummer is known, but not well-so.

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Don't have the disc....but from the posts above I would guess that track one is Jack McDuff w/Kenny Burrell "How High The Moon" from McDuff's Prestige "Crash" LP. It's a great arrangement with Harold Vick on tenor.

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You would guess wrong!

BTW - if you want a copy of the discs, it can be arranged...

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