New Herbie Hancock

[Joe G]

Not to mention that Herbie performs most often with that excellent quartet mentioned earlier.

[Kalo]

Nothing wrong with Herbie wanting to do something different, more commercial, and of interest to a larger audience than just us jazz fans. 

Weren't these the same sort of "sell out" arguments made when Bird first did an album with strings?

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Problem is, he doesn't do it that well, even by the standards of who he's trying to sell out to.

(If one of these tracks becomes a hit, then I'll eat my words...)

[ejp626]

With the power of Starbuck$ behind it, I suspect the album will do pretty well. You come in half asleep, the music is playing constantly, it's this subliminal pressure to buy the CD. Honestly, I do wonder how Starbuck$ became such a cult -- it's only coffee, people, not a lifestyle.

On the same subject, I wonder if Verve has started to give away its samplers to retail stores and coffee shops, cause I've heard Remixed 3 playing in a few places now. I guess I can't comment until I actually hear the Hancock album, but for my taste, I would prefer the Verve Unmixed or even Remixed to all those duets.

[Joe M]

Nothing wrong with Herbie wanting to do something different, more commercial, and of interest to a larger audience than just us jazz fans. 

Weren't these the same sort of "sell out" arguments made when Bird first did an album with strings?

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Hey, if he wants to make a buck, good for him, this is America. But years from now, I think we'll have wished he recorded with that quartet instead of John Mayer.

And yeah, the Wes albums have some good cuts, a few, just like some of Bird's best solos were on the strings material (Just Friends). But I challenge anyone who really knows Bird's music to say that as a whole the strings sessions are better than his stuff for Savoy or Dial, or the best of the Verve small group sessions.

[RonF]

With the power of Starbuck$ behind it, I suspect the album will do pretty well. 

Yep. I think it will sell very well indeed.

[RDK]

Nothing wrong with Herbie wanting to do something different, more commercial, and of interest to a larger audience than just us jazz fans. 

Weren't these the same sort of "sell out" arguments made when Bird first did an album with strings?

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Hey, if he wants to make a buck, good for him, this is America. But years from now, I think we'll have wished he recorded with that quartet instead of John Mayer.

And yeah, the Wes albums have some good cuts, a few, just like some of Bird's best solos were on the strings material (Just Friends). But I challenge anyone who really knows Bird's music to say that as a whole the strings sessions are better than his stuff for Savoy or Dial, or the best of the Verve small group sessions.

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Well of course Bird's "with strings" work isn't his finest moment - I never suggested otherwise. Nor is Herbie's "Starbuck's" album likely to compare with his best work. That doesn't seem to be the point (for either artist). Herbie has been "crossing over" into pop and rock for years, so this latest release is hardly surprising. He obviously has wide musical interests - as I've said before, likely wider that that of his fans - and if this is what he now wants to do, more power to him.

[Kari S]

Herbie has been "crossing over" into pop and rock for years, so this latest release is hardly surprising. 

Has he really? Not to this extent imo. Okay, 'Watermelon Man', 'Chameleon' and 'Rockit' were "hits" of sorts, and he did the (sometimes silly) vocoder disco stuff in the late 70's, but still I'd say this type of album is a first for him.

I just saw the "South Bank Show" featuring HH, and it had some (great quality) footage of his quartet from a few years back featuring Gary Thomas, Scott Colley and Carrington. Needless to say, they were killin'. Now why Hancock doesn't record an all acoustic jazz album with this band or with Hutcherson, is beyond me. Some recent cameo appearances on records (like the Terence Blanchard) and obviously concerts have proved that he still has a lot to give. Maybe he himself doesn't feel that way?

Edited August 1, 2005 by Kari S

[Rosco]

I also don't really see what all the fuss is about. Herbie has been doing this stuff for years and his jazz fans either take it on board or ignore it altogether. If you ignored Monster or Sound System then ignoring this one shouldn't prove too much of a stretch.

That said, the lack of stright jazz recordings from Herbie of late does seem cause for regret. Even during his disco period in the 70s there were still some good straightahead releases (often through CBS Japan) and things from that period still seem to be getting unearthed. Maybe in about 30 years we'll get to hear some 'long lost' recordings from this period of Herbie's jazz career. I hope it doesn't take that long.

[ejp626]

Hey, maybe we can force Herbie and Sonnie to play on some trio recordings, since the consensus seems to be that their recent recorded oeuvre is lacking compared to their live work. Just a thought.

[Lazaro Vega]

Don Juan's Reckless Daughter with Joni Mitchell. That's not a bad pop cross over album with jazz musicians.

[ghost of miles]

John Mayer?! Must... resist... urge to use vomiticon...

No disrespect to anybody who likes the guy--his singles always struck me as third-rate inspiration from the movie SINGLES. He is one of the few artists who causes me to immediately switch the radio station while I'm driving.

[RonF]

John Mayer?!  Must... resist... urge to use vomiticon...

No disrespect to anybody who likes the guy--his singles always struck me as third-rate inspiration from the movie SINGLES.  He is one of the few artists who causes me to immediately switch the radio station while I'm driving.

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Ah go ahead and use him. It's easy.

[Rosco]

I have to admit the work of John Mayer has passed me by. Maybe he's bigger in the States than here in the UK.

But I'm presuming he sounds nothing like this one...

[GregN]

With the power of Starbuck$ behind it, I suspect the album will do pretty well.  You come in half asleep, the music is playing constantly, it's this subliminal pressure to buy the CD.  Honestly, I do wonder how Starbuck$ became such a cult -- it's only coffee, people, not a lifestyle.

On the same subject, I wonder if Verve has started to give away its samplers to retail stores and coffee shops, cause I've heard Remixed 3 playing in a few places now.  I guess I can't comment until I actually hear the Hancock album, but for my taste, I would prefer the Verve Unmixed or even Remixed to all those duets.

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Their applied visual merchandising is sublime. I was in line the other day waiting for the coffee of the day, and I almost bought an Etta James CD. Then I realized I already had the tracks at home. The smell of java makes me crazy, I think.

[GregN]

When I heard John Mayer's Heavier Things on the radio I did not like it, at all. However, my wife brought home the CD, and well, sans radio compression his voice is actually not that bad. In fact, it is quite dynamic. You radio guys should be ashamed. Using all that compression.

Regarding Herbie:

I believe in Herbie.

g

[ValerieB]

....Natasha Kinski

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NASTASSJA, i think.

Edited August 23, 2005 by ValerieB

[Joe M]

When I heard John Mayer's Heavier Things on the radio I did not like it, at all.  However, my wife brought home the CD, and well, sans radio compression his voice is actually not that bad.  In fact, it is quite dynamic.  You radio guys should be ashamed.  Using all that compression. 

Regarding Herbie:

I believe in Herbie. 

g

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And with HD radio, you'll be able to hear all that overprocessed compressed audio with HD clarity!

[Guest youmustbe]

ALL of Herbie's records lose money for Verve, because his budgets and or advances are so high. Wayne also is a huge loss, Verve/Universal has a payola scam which inflates their jazz record sales...but anyway, both of them are on the label as 'loss leaders' because wthout them Verve could not justify a jazz line... so to do a quartet record by Herbie would get even Ron Goldstein in trouble, and he's been able to dodge it all these years.

(Scofield's live Blue Note record was done with a very small budget, 'outside' what his contract called for, so since it didn't sell, as if anything does, his future projects, like the Ray Charles would not be affected.)

[CJ Shearn]

wow youmustbe, too bad.

[JSngry]

Verve/Universal has a payola scam which inflates their jazz record sales...

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Details, please?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Guest youmustbe]

I might not remember this correctly, but I think Wayne's Footprints Verve sold something like 4000 copies in Minneapolis, according to Soundscan... Duh!?

Everybody does it...you pay a small retailer to run one copy thru the scanner multiple times, so one copy sold or unsold can register with Soundscan as 5, 10, 15, the sky's the limit, in sales. It's the most common scam.

Verve Remixed did not do much until 2 radio DJs were taken care of, also in that part of the country, who played it non stop and it wound up selling 200, 000 copies supposedly, although the guy that thought it up was immediately fired, but they did invite him to the party for the release of remixed 2 which also he thought up.

It is not possible, and never has, to sell records without payola. Too much stuff out there. And while some of it is large payments, most of it is small stuff, no differen than a sales rep giving promo copies to the guy at Tower (if he can find him!)

[JSngry]

I might not remember this correctly, but I think Wayne's Footprints Verve sold something like 4000 copies in Minneapolis, according to Soundscan... Duh!?

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Maybe Prince bought them to give as gifts.

[Jazz Kat]

Will NOT be buying this any time soon.

[Jim Alfredson]

I might not remember this correctly, but I think Wayne's Footprints Verve sold something like 4000 copies in Minneapolis, according to Soundscan... Duh!?

Everybody does it...you pay a small retailer to run one copy thru the scanner multiple times, so one copy sold or unsold can register with Soundscan as 5, 10, 15, the sky's the limit, in sales.  It's the most common scam.

Verve Remixed did not do much until 2 radio DJs were taken care of, also in that part of the country, who played it non stop and it  wound up selling  200, 000 copies supposedly, although the guy that thought it up was immediately fired, but they did invite him to the party for the release of remixed 2 which also he thought up.

It is not possible, and never has, to sell records without payola.  Too much stuff out there.  And while some of it  is large payments, most of it is small stuff, no differen than a sales rep giving promo copies to the guy at Tower (if he can find him!)

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So, how does one find a retailer willing to do this... just out of curiousity.

[Guest youmustbe]

It really only works with majors, because they have other stuff to push.

For samll labels/acts...find a retailer that scans sales, and offer him 25 cd box for 50 bucks 2 bucs a cd, if he will scan them right there and then.

If no scanner, make deal for box of cd to be sold at register at whatever price he wants.

Also, I always tell young acts to sell their sealed promo cds to used cd stores. A lot of them don't want to, but the object is to have someone buy your cd, no matter what the circumstances. Out of sight, out of mind.